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STATES MINUTES 2 6 t h September, 1989
THE STATES assembled on Tuesday, 26th September, 1989 at 10.15 a.m. under the Presidency of the Greffier of the Stat es,
Edward James McGregor Potter, Esquire.
_ _ _ _ _ _______
His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor, Admiral Sir William Pillar, G.B.E., K.C.B. ,
w a s p r esent.
_ _ _ _ _ _______
All Members were present with the exception of -
S enator John William Ellis - out of
t he Island.
S enator Betty Brooke - out of the
I sland.
I ris Medora Le Feuvre, Connétable of
S t. Lawrence - absent.
A rthur Philip Querée, Connétable of
S t. Ouen - out of the Island.
E nid Clare Quénault, Connétable of St. B relade - out of the Island.
H endricus Adolphus Vandervliet, Deputy
o f St. Lawrence - out of the Island.
R onald Winter Blampied, Deputy of St. H elier - out of the Island.
H arry Hall ewell Baudains, Deputy of
S t. Clement - out of the Island.
_ _ _ _ _ _______
P r a y e rs
_ _ _ _ _ _______
Tribute to the late Jurat Peter
Baker, former Connétable of St. Helier.
The President paid tribute to the
late Jurat Peter Gorton Baker, a former
Connétable of St. Helier.
THE STATES observed one minute's silence as a mark of respect.
Deputy A.P. Bree of Grouville - welcome.
The President, on behalf of the Members of the States, welcomed to the Assembly the newly elected Deputy of Grouville , Mr. Alan Payn Bree.
Subordinate legislation tabled.
The following enactments were laid before the States, namely -
1 . Health Insurance (Pharmaceutical
B e n efit) (General Provisions)
( A m endment No. 29) (Jersey) Order, 1 989. R & O 7951.
2 . Wharf Street Food Fair (No. 2) ( J er sey) Order, 1989. R & O No. 7 9 5 2.
3 . Emergency Powers (Control of
W a ter) (Amendment) (Jersey) Order, 1 9 8 9. R & O 7953.
4 . Battle of Britain Air Display
( J er sey) Order, 1989. R & O 7961.
5 . Road Traffic (Saint Brelade)
( A m endment No. 14) (Jersey) Order, 1 9 8 9. R & O 7962.
6 . Ancillary Dental Workers
( R e gistration) (Fees) (Jersey) O rder, 1989. R & O 7963.
7 . Establishments for Massage or
S p e cial Treatment (Licence Fees) ( J er sey) Order, 1989. R & O 7964.
8 . Food and Drugs (Ice-cream Stalls E t c .) (Amendment No. 10) (Jersey) O rd er, 1989. R & O 7965.
9 . Nursing Agencies (General
P r o visions) (Amendment No. 5)
( J er sey) Order, 1989. R & O 7966.
1 0. Nursing Homes (Registration)
( F e es) (Jersey) Order, 1989. R & O 7 9 6 7.
1 1. Old Person's Homes (Registration) ( F e es) (Jersey) Order, 1989. R & O 7 9 6 8.
1 2. Health Insurance (Pharmaceutical B e n efit List) (Amendment No. 4)
( J er sey) Order, 1989. R & O 7969.
1 3. Import and Export (Control)
( A m endment No. 3) (Jersey) Order, 1 9 8 9. R & O 7970.
1 4. Road Traffic ( Grouville )
( A m endment No. 2) (Jersey) Order, 1 9 8 9. R & O 7971.
1 5. Road Traffic (Saint Clement)
( A m endment No. 3) (Jersey) Order, 1 9 8 9. R & O 7972.
Public Works Committee: appointment of member.
THE STATES appointed Deputy Alan Payn Bree of Grouville as a member of the Public Works Committee.
Contingencies vote of credit: Public Works Committee.
THE STATES noted an Act of the
Finance and Economics Committee dated 12th September, 1989 informing the House that it had made available the sum of #80,000 from the Contingencies vote of credit for the
cost of installing meters for water
abstracted from boreholes for commercial purposes, under the provisions of the Emergency Powers (Control of Water) (Jersey) Order, 1989.
Report of the Medical Officer of Health for 1988.
The Public Health Committee by Act dated 21st June, 1989, presented to the States a Report of the Medical Officer of Health for 1988.
THE STATES ordered that the said Report be printed and distributed.
Welfare benefit: revised rates from 1st October, 1989. R.C.16.
The Finance and Economics
Committee by Act dated 18th September, 1989, presented to the States a Report setting out the revised rates of Welfare Benefit from 1st October, 1989.
THE STATES ordered that the said Report be printed and distributed.
Matters noted - land transactions.
THE STATES noted Acts of the
Finance and Economics Committee dated 4th and 18th September, 1989, showing that in pursuance of Standing Orders relating to certain transactions in land, the Committee had approved -
( a) as recommended by the Housing C o m mittee, the sale to the Parish
o f S t. Helier of 59 square feet of
l a nd in Dorset Street, St. Helier,
s h o wn on Plan 2374/S, in order
t h at the Parish could maintain the l a nd as part of the public
f o o tpath, for a nominal
c o n sideration of #10, with each
s id e being responsible for the
p a y ment of its own legal fees;
( b) as recommended by the Housing
C o m mittee, the renewal of the
l e as es to the Jersey New
W a terworks Company Limited of two s u b -station sites at Elysée
E s t ate, shown on Drawing Nos.
2 2 9 8/75Y and 751, for a period of
9 9 years at an annual rent of #1
e a c h site, with all payments
c o m muted forward to the
c o m mencement of the lease and with e a c h side being responsible for
t h e payment of its own legal fees;
( c) as recommended by the Housing C o m mittee, the sale to the Parish
o f S t. Brelade of 282 square feet
o f l and in Field 213, La Petite
R o ute des Mielles, St. Brelade,
o u t lined in red on Drawing No.
1 4 9 5-07, for a nominal c o n sideration of #10, with each s id e being responsible for the p a y ment of its own legal fees;
( d) as recommended by the Housing
C o m mittee, with the support of the
I s la nd Development Committee, the p u r chase from Mr. David John
W a keham and Mrs. Judith Wakeham, n é e Preece, of the property 80,
S t . Mark's Road, St. Saviour for
t h e sum of #490,000 for the realty
a n d #20,000 for the contents for
u s e for States' rental
a c c ommodation;
( e) as recommended by the Resources R e c overy Board, the purchase from M r . Cyril Le Vesconte of 49.45
s q u are feet of land in Field 904,
T r in ity, as shown on Drawing No. E S . 715A, for a consideration of
# 4 9 .45, with the Board being
r e sp onsible for the payment of all
l e ga l fees involved in the
t ra n saction;
( f) as recommended by the Resources
R e c overy Board, the purchase from
M is s Mary Huelin and Miss Margaret H u elin of an additional 2,788
s q u are feet of land at Le Mont de
l a G reve de Lecq, St. Mary, as
s h o wn on Drawing No. WS.717,
r e q uired in connexion with the
c o n struction of a pumping station
f o r the Foul Sewer Extension, for
a c o nsideration of #2,788, with
t h e Board being responsible for
t h e payment of all legal fees
i n v olved in the transaction;
( g) as recommended by the
E s t ablishment Committee, the
l e as ing from Mr. Mark Chinnery of t h e property No. 1, Clos de Douet, S t . John, a fully-furnished three-
b e d roomed cottage, for a period of t h re e years with effect from 1st
S e p tember, 1989, at a weekly rent
o f # 160, subject to annual cost of
l iv i ng increases, required for
o cc upation by a contract employee;
( h) as recommended by the
E s t ablishment Committee, the
l e as ing from Mr. Lawrence John
G o odall of the property Le
C h a telet, Wellington Hill, St.
S a v iour, a fully-furnished two-
b e d roomed bungalow, for a period
o f o ne year, with effect from 1st
A u gust, 1989, at a weekly rent of
# 1 4 3, with an option to renew for a f u rther four years, required for
o c c upation by a contract employee;
( i) as recommended by the Harbours and A ir port Committee, the leasing to
A v iation Beauport Limited of 1,208
s q u are feet of office
a c c ommodation in the Operations
C o r ridor on the first floor of the
A ir port Terminal Building (Letting
N o s. B57, B58, B77, B78, B77A &
B 7 9 ), for a three year period from
3 1 s t August, 1989, at an annual
r e n t of #9,244, with annual rent
r e v iews linked to the Jersey Cost
o f L iving Index;
( j) as recommended by the Harbours and A ir port Committee, the leasing to
G eo rge Troy and Sons Ltd. of 1,970
s q u are feet of floor space on the
g r o und floor at E' Store (Letting
N o . N12), New North Quay, Port of
S t . Helier, at a rate of #3 a
s q u are foot, and 1,050 square feet
o f f loor space on the Upper Floor,
a t a n annual rent of #1.50 a
s q u are foot, for a period of three
y e a rs from 1st July, 1989, at an
a n n ual rent of #7,485;
( k) as recommended by the Harbours and A ir port Committee, the assignment
o f t he lease from Les Viviers de
S t e Catherine Ltd. to Ross Alcedo
L i m ited of accommodation
u n d erneath the walkway at Victoria
P i e r, Port of St. Helier (Letting
N o s. V6-V10 inclusive), for the
r e m ainder of the three year lease,
e f fe ctive from 1st September, 1989
t o 3 1st May, 1991, at an annual
r e n t of #3,470;
( l) as recommended by the Housing
C o m mittee, the granting to The
J e rs ey Electricity Company Limited
o f a ny wayleaves required for high
t e ns ion cables to connect the
p r o perty Velsheda Cottage, High
S t re et, St. Aubin, St. Brelade,
o w ned by Mr. Robert Henry Edwards a n d Mrs. Susan Edwards, née Bache, a c ro ss its land at Le Jardin du
C r o cquet, for a consideration of
# 5 0 0, with Mr. and Mrs. Edwards
b e in g responsible for the payment
o f a ll legal fees;
( m) as recommended by the Housing C o m mittee, the granting to Mr.
R o b ert Henry Edwards and Mrs.
S u s an Edwards, née Bache, of a
c o n tract wayleave, to lay a water
p i p e across its land at Le Jardin
d u Croquet, to service their
p r o perty, Velsheda Cottage, High S t re et, St. Aubin, St. Brelade,
f o r a consideration of #500, with
M r . and Mrs. Edwards being
r e sp onsible for the payment of all l e ga l fees.
Matters noted - financial transactions.
THE STATES, noted Acts of the
Finance and Economics Committee, dated 15th May, 12th June, 7th August, 21st August,
4th September and 18th September, 1989, showing that in pursuance of Rule 5 of the Public Finances (General) (Jersey) Rules, 1967, as amended, the Committee had noted that -
( a) the Resources Recovery Board had a c c epted the lowest of two
t en d ers, namely that submitted by
V o n Roll Limited in the sum of
# 8 , 850,000 for the Third Stream
r e fu se incinerator plant;
( b) the Housing Committee had accepted t h e lowest of five tenders, namely
t h at submitted by Peter Cameron
L i m ited in the sum of #1,648,020
i n a contract period of 75 weeks
f o r the provision of 26 two-
b e d roomed and 2 three-bedroomed
f la t s at Le Douet Clement, St.
B r e lade;
(c) the Housing Committee had accepted t h e lowest of five tenders, namely t h at submitted by C.A. Mauger
L i m ited in the sum of #153,210 in a c o ntract period of 30 weeks for t h e conversion of No. 79 Rouge B o u illon, St. Helier, into 4 one-
b e d roomed flats;
( d) the Housing Committee had accepted t h e lowest of three tenders,
n a m ely that submitted by E.
F l a herty and Company Limited in
t h e sum of #94,590 in a contract
p e r iod of 10 weeks for the
c o n struction of a retaining wall
o n Field 817, St. Lawrence so that
d e v elopment could commence on the c o n struction of 22 two-bedroomed
f la t s on the site;
( e) the Resources Recovery Board had a c c epted the lowest of four
t e nd ers, namely that submitted by
D .C . Allen Limited in the
c o r rected sum of #358,497.13 for
t h e Sewage Treatment Works
e x te nsion;
( f) the Education Committee had
a c c epted the lowest of five
t e nd ers, namely, that submitted by R . J . Wilkinson Limited in the sum
o f # 60,278 for an additional
c l as sroom at Les Landes School;
( g) the Education Committee had
a c c epted the lowest of four
t e nd ers, namely that submitted by H ac quoil and Cook Limited in the s u m of #129,117 for the
c o n struction of two units of staff h o u sing at Plat Douet School;
( h) the Housing Committee had accepted t h e lowest of five tenders, namely
t h at submitted by Hacquoil and
C o o k Limited in the sum of
# 4 8 0,376 in a contract period of
4 2 weeks for the construction of
e l ev en one-bedroomed flats at Haut
d u Mont Phase II, Pier Road, St.
H el ier.
Matters lodged.
The following subjects were lodged au Greffe'' -
1 . Social Security and health care:
a g r eement with Norway. P.127/89. P resented by the Social Security
C o m mittee. The States decided to t a ke this subject into
c o n sideration on 10th October,
1 9 8 9.
2 . Draft Probate (Amendment) (Jersey) L a w , 19 . P.128/89.
P r e sented by the Legislation
C o m mittee.
3 . Draft Road Traffic (No. 34) ( J er sey) Regulations, 19 .
P . 1 29/89.
P r e sented by the Defence
C o m mittee.
4 . Licensing (Jersey) Law, 1974: r e v iew. P.130/89.
P r e sented by the Tourism
C o m mittee.
The following subject was lodged on 12th September, 1989 -
D raft Building Loans (Miscellaneous P rovisions) (Amendment No. 19)
( Jersey) Regulations, 198 . P.126/89. P resented by the Housing Committee.
Arrangement of Public Business for the Autumn Session.
THE STATES decided to take the undermentioned subjects into consideration on -
2 6th September, 1989 -
S heltered Workshop for the
m entally handicapped. P.96/89. L odged: 20th June, 1989.
S ocial Security Committee.
T enants in private sector:
s ecurity of tenure. P.100/89.
L odged: 27th June, 1989. S enator J.S. Rothwell.
D raft Health and Safety at
W ork (Jersey) Law, 1989 (Appointed D ay) Act, 198 . P.114/89.
L odged: 8th August, 1989.
S ocial Security Committee.
D raft Health and Safety at
W ork (Appeal Tribunal) (Jersey) R egulations, 198 . P.108/89.
L odged: 25th July, 1989.
S ocial Security Committee.
D raft Health and Safety at
W ork (Appeal Tribunal) (Jersey) R egulations, 198 (P.108/89):
a mendment. P.125/89.
L odged: 29th August, 1989.
S ocial Security Committee.
H ealth and Safety at Work
T ribunal: appointment of members. P .124/89.
L odged: 29th August, 1989.
S ocial Security Committee.
D raft Health and Safety at
W ork (Improvement and Prohibition N otices Appeals) (Jersey) Regulations, 1 98 . P.109/89.
L odged: 25th July, 1989.
S ocial Security Committee.
D raft Harbours (Vehicle
R amps) (Jersey) Regulations, 198 . P .119/89.
L odged: 8th August, 1989.
H arbours and
A irport Committee.
1 0th October, 1989 -
G lasshouse industry: refund of harbour d ues. P.120/89.
L odged: 22nd August, 1989.
A griculture and
F isheries Committee.
P rojet de Réglements (198 )
s ur le tarif des honoraires des Jurés- J usticiers. P.121/89.
L odged: 22nd August, 1989.
F inance and Economics
C ommittee.
A rchirondel Cottage, St.
M artin: refurbishment. P.123/89. L odged: 22nd August, 1989.
H ousing Committee.
D raft Building
L oans (Miscellaneous Provisions) ( Amendment No. 19) (Jersey)
R egulations, 198 . P.126/89.
H ousing Committee.
1 7th October, 1989 -
D raft Bankruptcy (Désastre) (Jersey) L aw, 198 . P.105/89.
L odged: 18th July, 1989.
F inance and Economics
C ommittee.
3 1st October, 1989 -
R ezoning of land for Category A
h ousing. P.57/89.
L odged: 9th May, 1989 and on 29th A ugust, 1989, sub-paragraphs (i)-(v)
o f paragraph (a) debated, the
r emainder deferred.
I sland Development Committee.
( Petitions regarding rezoning of
l and - P.94/89, P.106/89, P.107/89 P .122/89 refer).
7 th November, 1989 -
S ocial Security registration cards. P .43/89.
L odged: 18th April, 1989.
S enator T.J. Le Main.
S ocial Security
r egistration cards: amendment. P .48/89.
L odged: 25th April, 1989.
S enator T.J. Le
M ain.
N o dates were fixed for the f ollowing -
P ublic property: Estates
M anagement Division. P.136/88. L odged: 1st November, 1988.
P ublic Works Committee.
F ields 14, 14A and 18, La Rue
d e Maupertuis, St. Clement: compulsory p urchase. P.152/88.
L odged: 22nd November, 1988.
H ousing Committee.
E ntry controls for visitors
t o Jersey. P.16/89.
L odged: 14th February, 1989. D eputy M.C. Buesnel of St. H elier.
W est of Albert Pier
R eclamation Site: development: sub-
p aragraph (a). P.53/89.
L odged: 2nd May, 1989, sub-paragraphs ( b) and (c) adopted on 30th May, 1989, s ub-paragraph (a) deferred.
P ublic Works Committee.
D raft Residential Care
H omes (Registration) (Jersey) Law, 1 98 . P.98/89.
L odged: 27th June, 1989.
P ublic Health Committee.
D raft Sea-Fisheries (Fishing
N ets) (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) R egulations, 198 . P.112/89.
L odged: 1st August, 1989.
A griculture and
F isheries Committee.
A waiting report -
H ousing needs: Committee
o f Inquiry. P.97/89.
L odged: 20th June, 1989 and referred t o Policy and Resources Committee on 2 5th July, 1989.
S enator J.S. Rothwell.
Matters lodged au Greffe'' withdrawn.
THE STATES noted that in pursuance of Standing Order 17(6) the following subjects, which were lodged au Greffe'', had been withdrawn -
D ental Benefit and Services:
i ntroduction. P.115/87.
L odged: 16th June, 1987 and referred t o Social Security Committee.
D eputy C. Stein of Grouville .
( Report of Social Security Committee r efers - P.60/89).
R ezoning of land for States
L oan development. P.112/88. L odged: 13th September, 1988. H ousing Committee.
Budget 1990.
The President of the Finance and Economics Committee informed the States that the debate on the 1990 Budget would be held on 28th November, 1989.
Legislation with regard to homosexuals. Question and answer.
Deputy Maurice Clement Buesnel of
St. Helier asked Deputy Edgar John Becquet of Trinity , President of the Legislation Committee, the following question -
Would the President say on what
g rounds the Legislation Committee
b ased its decision not to introduce
l egislation to conform to the European
C onvention on Human Rights with regard t o Homosexuals?''
The President of the Legislation Committee replied as follows -
There is no specific provision with
r egard to homosexuals in the European C onvention for the Protection of Human R ights and Fundamental Freedoms.
T he Convention provides that certain b asic rights and freedoms should be
s ecured. These include the right to
l ife; freedom from torture or inhuman
o r degrading treatment or punishment; f reedom from slavery or compulsory
l abour; the right to liberty and
s ecurity of person; fair trials in the
m atter of civil rights; respect for
p rivate and family life; freedom of
t hought, conscience and religion;
f reedom of expression and
a ssociations; and peaceful assembly.
T he only part of the Convention which c an be construed as dealing with
m atters of homosexual behaviour is
c ontained in Article 8 which at
p aragraph (i) is in the following
t erms - Everyone has the right to
r espect for his private and family
l ife, his home and his
c orrespondence'.
I would, however, draw the Deputy 's a ttention to paragraph (ii) of the
A rticle which provides exceptions and w hich is as follows -
T h ere shall be no interference by a p u blic authority with the
e x e rcise of this right except such a s i s in accordance with the Law a n d is necessary in a democratic s o c iety in the interests of
n a ti onal security, public safety
o r t he economic well-being of the
c o u ntry, for the prevention of
d i so rder or crime, for the
p r o tection of health or morals, or f o r the protection of the rights
a n d freedoms of others'. (the
u n d erlines are mine).
H omosexuality itself such as acts of
i ndecency committed in private between c onsenting adults is not an offence
u nder Jersey Law but sodomy and
b estiality are.
B ecause of the incidence of AIDS
d uring the last few years and because
o f the relationship which sodomy has
t o this dreaded affliction and because
o f the necessity of protecting the
p opulation of this Island my Committee i s of the opinion, after consultation
w ith the Public Health Committee, that i t should not bring in legislation to
r epeal the 1938 Law on sodomy and
b estiality as it considers that in the
m atter of the rights of individuals to
i ndulge in unnatural practices the
q uestion of the health of the
p opulation of this Island must take
p recedence.
H owever, following recent discussions
w ith H.M. Attorney General on the
i nterpretation of paragraph (ii) of
A rticle 8 of the Convention and in the l ight of the possible constitutional
i mplications my Committee considers t hat it would be desirable to hold
d iscussions on these matters with the H ome Office and the Policy and
R esources Committee respectively.''
S upplementary questions and answers.
D eputy M.A. Wavell - Sir, can I ask a supplementary on that one? Sir, the P resident underlines the defence of
h is decision being that of the
p rotection of health and morals. Would h e not agree that the moral issue in
t he absence of European recognition of h is theory on health should be that
t his House honours its commitment to t he European Convention it has signed, a nd either accepts it or makes
r epresentations to the Convention for
a change in that agreement and to stop t rying to interpret agreements in a
w ay that is out of step with the other
s ignatories?''
P resident, Legislation Committee -
It would be helpful if the Deputy
w ould repeat more clearly - I had very
g reat difficulty in understanding what
h e was saying, Sir; but nevertheless,
S ir, I know the gist of what he has
s aid, and I will answer that question
b y quoting part of a letter which he
w rote to me on the 1st June, 1989, in
h is capacity at that time as Chairman
o f the AIDS Advisory Committee. I will
r ead the concluding paragraph, Sir.
It w ould be detrimental to the
A ID S Advisory Committee's
c a m paign, and in fact, I believe
w o uld put it back several years,
i f w e were to give the impression
t h at the Laws should be changed on t h e back of our AIDS problem. This w o uld infer that AIDS is only a
g a y problem and therefore further
s ti g matise the condition.'
T hat, Sir, is a letter which he wrote t o me because I consulted the Public H ealth Authorities at the time and I c onsulted the Medical Officer of
H ealth at the time. I don't know
w hether the Deputy himself wrote this l etter Sir, but certainly it is a very
c omprehensive letter and there are
m any other facets to the letter; but
i f the House wishes me to read that
t hen I will do so.''
D eputy Wavell Sir, on a point of
o rder, I must challenge that. I think, i f you read on, I said that I didn't
t hink it should be changed solely on t he back of the AIDS issue, but did
s tate that on moral grounds and other g rounds, there was every indication
t hat it should be changed.''
Legislation that affects the
rights of homosexuals. Questions and answers.
Deputy Maurice Clement Buesnel of St. Helier asked Her Majesty's Attorney General the following questions -
Q uestion 1
Would the Attorney General confirm
t hat Jersey has a legal obligation
u nder the European Convention on Human R ights to rescind legislation that
a ffects the rights of homosexuals?''
Her Majesty's Attorney General replied as follows -
The European Convention on Human R ights was extended to the Island with t he agreement of this House and it
f ollows that we are under an
o bligation to comply with the terms of
t hat Convention.
A rticle 8 of the Convention provides a s follows -
( i) Everyone has the right to respect f o r his private and family life,
h i s home and his correspondence.
( ii) There shall be no interference b y a p ublic authority with the e x e r ci se of this right except
s u c h a s is in accordance with t h e l aw and is necessary in a d e m o cratic society in the
i n te r e sts of national
s e c u ri ty, public safety or the e c o n o mic well being of the
c o u n t ry, for the prevention of d i so r d er or crime, for the
p r o te c tion of health or
m o ra l s, or for the protection
o f t h e rights and freedoms of
o t h e rs .
T he European Court of Human Rights has t wice given consideration to this
A rticle in the context of
h omosexuality. The first case was
b rought in 1981 by a Mr. Dudgeon who
l ived in Northern Ireland. The law of
N orthern Ireland at that time
p rohibited both gross indecency
b etween males and the act of sodomy.
M r. Dudgeon had been questioned,
d uring the course of an investigation
i nto other offences, by the police at
l ength about his sexual practices. No
p rosecution had been brought but Mr.
D udgeon complained that there had been a n interference with his right to
r espect for his private life.
T he Court noted the formulation of the
i ssues by the Wolfenden Committee in a r eport in 1957 which had led to a
c hange in the law of England and
W ales. The report stated that the
f unction of the criminal law in this
f ield was -
to preserve public order and
d e c ency, to protect the citizen
f ro m what is offensive or
i n ju rious, and to provide
s u f ficient safeguards against
e x p loitation and corruption of
o t h ers, particularly those who are
s p e cially vulnerable because they a r e young, weak in body or mind, i n ex perienced, or in a state of
s p e cial physical, official, or
e c o nomic dependence',
b ut not
to intervene in the private lives
o f c itizens, or to seek to enforce
a n y particular pattern of
b e h aviour, further than is
n e c essary to carry out the p u r poses we have outlined'.
T he Wolfenden Committee concluded that h omosexual behaviour between
c onsenting adults in private was part
o f the realm of private morality and
i mmorality which is, in brief and
c rude terms, not the law's business'.
T he United Kingdom Government defended t he case on the grounds that then
e xisting state of the law in Northern
I reland was necessary in a democratic
s ociety' to protect morals and the
r ights and freedoms of others. The
C ourt accepted that there was in
N orthern Ireland a strong body of
o pposition stemming from a genuine and
s incere conviction shared by a large
n umber of responsible members of the
c ommunity that a change in the law
w ould be seriously damaging to the
m oral fabric of society. The Court
c ould not overlook however the marked
c hanges which had taken place in
a ttitudes towards homosexuality and
t he increased tolerance of homosexual
b ehaviour. There was no evidence of
a ny public demand for a stricter
e nforcement of the law against
h omosexuals.
T he Court went on to rule against the
U nited Kingdom. It decided that the
w ord necessary' in paragraph 2 was
s tronger than reasonable' or
desirable' and implied some pressing
s ocial need for the interference in
q uestion. It could find no such need.
Decriminalisation' did not imply
a pproval. The Court concluded that Mr. D udgeon had suffered an unjustified
i nterference with his right to respect
f or his private life.
T he second case was brought in 1988 by a Mr. Norris who lived in the Republic
o f Ireland. Mr. Norris was a lecturer
a t Trinity College, Dublin and a
S enator in the Irish Parliament.
D uring one of a series of hearings
b efore the Irish Courts Mr. Norris
g ave evidence that he had suffered
d eep depression and loneliness on
r ealising that he was irreversibly
h omosexual and that any overt
e xpression of his sexuality would
e xpose him to criminal prosecution. He a lso claimed to have suffered what Mr. J ustice Henchy, in a dissenting
j udgment in the Supreme Court,
d escribed in the following terms -
.. .. ..fear of prosecution or of
s o c ial obloquy has restricted him
i n h is social and other relations
w it h male colleagues and friends:
a n d in a number of subtle but
i n si diously intrusive and wounding w ay s he has been restricted in or
t h w arted from engaging in
a c ti vities which heterosexuals
t a ke for granted as aspects of the
n ec essary expression of their
h u m an personality and as ordinary i n ci dents of their citizenship.'
T he majority of the Supreme Court of
I reland however had refused Mr. Norris a declaration that the laws in
q uestion were unconstitutional. The
S upreme Court based its judgment on
( inter alia) the following
c onsiderations -
( 1 ) Homosexuality has always b e e n condemned in Christian
t e ac hing as being morally wrong. I t has equally been regarded by
s o c iety for many centuries as an
o f fe nce against nature and a very
s e ri ous crime.' and
( 4 ) Male homosexual conduct h a s resulted, in other countries,
i n t he spread of all forms of
v e n ereal disease and this has now b e c ome a significant public health p r o blem in England.'
M r. Norris accordingly complained to t he European Commission of Human R ights and the case was in due course h eard by the Court. The Court found
t hat the case was in essence
i ndistinguishable from the Dudgeon
C ase and that there was a breach of
A rticle 8 of the Convention. The Irish G overnment had argued that, whilst the c riterion of pressing social need'
w as a valid yardstick for testing
r estrictions imposed in the interest
o f national security, public order or
t he protection of public health, it
c ould not be applied to determine
w hether an interference was necessary i n a democratic society' for the
p rotection of morals. The Irish
G overnment argued that the moral fibre
o f a democratic nation was a matter
f or its own institutions, and that it
s hould be allowed a degree of
t olerance in its compliance with
A rticle 8. The Court did not agree. It
d ecided that it had to make an
a ssessment of the reality of the
p ressing social need which was said to j ustify the restriction. The Court
r epeated what it had said in the
D udgeon case that this concerned a
m ost intimate aspect of private life.
A ccordingly there must exist
p articularly serious reasons before
i nterferences on the part of public
a uthorities can be legitimate for the
p urposes of paragraph 2 of Article 8'.
T he House will have noted that neither i n the Dudgeon case nor in the Norris
c ase did the European Court of Human R ights expressly pronounce upon the
public health' exception in the
c ontext of AIDS. Although the Supreme C ourt of Ireland thought that the
p ublic health aspect was a relevant
f actor, the Irish Government clearly
d id not agree because the point was
c onceded in argument before the
E uropean Court of Human Rights.
I am asked whether Jersey has a legal
o bligation to rescind legislation
a ffecting the rights of homosexuals.
T he answer to that is clearly in the
a ffirmative unless it can be shown
t hat there are serious reasons'
f ounded on public health for the
i nterference with the human rights of
h omosexuals. Put another way, it would b e necessary to show that the
d ecriminalisation of the act of sodomy b etween consenting adults in private
w ould seriously affect the health of
t he community. I am aware of no
e vidence that such is the case.''
S upplementary questions and answers.
S enator D.A. Carter - A
s upplementary to that - I take it from w hat the Attorney General has said, t hat the Law of Jersey prohibits
s odomy between consenting adults
r egardless of whether it is a
h omosexual or a heterosexual
r elationship. Is that correct?''
H .M. Attorney General - That is c orrect.''
S enator Carter - So, Sir, would the
A ttorney General then agree that this
i s not in fact a law about
h omosexuality at all, that in fact
a cts which have been committed in
p ublic would amount to indecency or
g ross indecency may be committed under t he Law of Jersey in private between
h omosexuals, but is an act solely of
s odomy, and that is equally illegal
f or either homosexuals or
h eterosexuals?''
H .M. Attorney General - I agree with w hat the President of the Legislation
C ommittee has said during the course
o f his answer, that the Law of Jersey
d oes not prohibit homosexual acts in
p rivate between consenting adults, but d oes prohibit the act of sodomy. I
a gree with the Senator that the law
p rohibits sodomy equally between male a nd male and male and female. The
E uropean Convention of Human Rights h as been concerned only with the
r ights of homosexuals and although the l aw in England and Wales has been
c hanged so that the act of sodomy
c ommitted between consenting males in p rivate is not a criminal offence, it
r emains a criminal offence in England a nd Wales for the act of sodomy to be
c ommitted between male and female.''
D eputy M.R. Billot - Sir, I'm
s urprised at the final sentence - I'm a ware of no evidence that such is the c ase.' Perhaps I've misunderstood it, b ut is not AIDS sufficient evidence a nd the fact that it is caused by this s ort of behaviour?''
H .M. Attorney General - If the
D eputy would look at the preceding
s entence, to the final sentence of the
a nswer, I said that it would be
n ecessary if we were to be able to
r ely upon the public health exception t o show that the decriminalisation of
t he act of sodomy between consenting a dults in private would seriously
a ffect the health of the community. It i s not a question of whether the act
o f sodomy is in itself desirable or
u ndesirable. In order to rely upon the p ublic health exception, one would
h ave to show that which I have said in t he answer. I'm aware of no evidence t hat such is the case, because having conferred with the Medical Officer of H ealth, it is his view that the
d ecriminalisation of the act of sodomy b etween consenting adults in private
i s irrelevant, from the point of view
o f the question of public health.''
D eputy Sir Martin Le Quesne - I
t hink I've told the House before that I was one of those who took part in
a nd contributed in the drafting of
t his Convention, and I can assure the H ouse that in those innocent days,
n one of us who took part in it thought t hat Paragraph 1 of Article 8 had
a nything to do with homosexual
r elations.''
D eputy J. Roche - Can I ask the
A ttorney General if in fact he might h ave the date that the Convention was e xtended to the Island?''
H .M. Attorney General - No, but I
c an certainly advise the Deputy in due c ourse. I believe it was last approved b y the House some two years ago.''
D eputy E.J. Becquet - Mr. President, i n view of the reply made on that
q uestion by the learned Attorney
G eneral, may I ask him, Sir, whether,
i n point of fact, the Medical Officer
o f Health did not say that the
q uestion of sodomy was not relevant in t he matter of the detection of AIDS
a nd not in the question of public
h ealth?''
H .M. Attorney General - I'm quite
c lear that what the Medical Officer of H ealth told me was that the
d ecriminalisation of the act of sodomy b etween consenting homosexuals in
p rivate was not a relevant factor in
s o far as the health of the community w as concerned. Whether or not the act w as criminal or not criminal made not t he slightest difference to the health
o f the community. That was the advice w hich the Medical Officer of Health
g ave to me.''
D eputy Becquet - Could I ask another q uestion on that? Did the Medical
O fficer of Health in point of fact say
t hat the act of sodomy was not
i njurious to health? That is the crux
o f the matter, Sir.''
H .M. Attorney General - I don't
t hink that I have suggested, and I'm
s ure that the Medical Officer of
H ealth has not suggested that the act
o f sodomy was not potentially
i njurious to health. That is not the
q uestion which the House has to
a ddress. If the Island wishes to rely
u pon the public health exception, it
m ust show that the health of the
c ommunity would be adversely affected i f the House were to decriminalise the
a ct of sodomy between consenting
a dults in private. It is that which,
a ccording to the Medical Officer of
H ealth, cannot be sustained.''
Deputy Buesnel Q uestion 2
If the answer to question 1 is in
t he affirmative, does the Attorney
G eneral consider that the Legislation C ommittee in not complying with the
o bligation is thereby creating the
p ossibility that the United Kingdom, b eing ultimately responsible for the
I sland's international affairs, will
l egislate for the Island in this
m atter?''
Her Majesty's Attorney General
Jersey is not a sovereign state but i s a dependency of the United Kingdom. W hile the Island has a substantial
m easure of autonomy in domestic
a ffairs and it is a well established
c onstitutional convention that the
U nited Kingdom Parliament does not
l egislate for Jersey on a domestic
i ssue without the consent of the
S tates, Her Majesty's Government, as
t he Deputy correctly states, is
r esponsible for our international
r elations. If the Island maintained a
r efusal to alter its domestic law so
t hat, as a result, the United Kingdom
w as itself in breach of its
i nternational obligations, I have
l ittle doubt that Her Majesty's
G overnment would, in the last resort,
w ith or without the consent of the
S tates legislate to alter that
d omestic law. This would, in my
o pinion, be a matter of grave
c onstitutional significance.''
S upplementary questions and answers.
D eputy Becquet - May I ask a
s upplementary on that, Sir? Would the A ttorney General not agree that this
I sland is not the only dependency of
t he British Crown which has refused to l egalise sodomy, and that the Isle of
M an is in exactly the same position as t his Island is at the moment?''
H .M. Attorney General - I would a gree, Sir.''
S enator Carter - Sir, the Attorney
G eneral's answer to a previous
q uestion would appear to indicate that H er Majesty's Government are already i n breach of its international
o bligations, in that I assume a
h eterosexual has just as much right to p rivacy as a homosexual, and the
A ttorney General informed us earlier t hat the act of sodomy between
h eterosexuals is still illegal in the
U nited Kingdom. In that case, is not
t he British Government already in
b reach of its obligations?''
H .M. Attorney General - I am not
a ware that any heterosexual has
c omplained to the European Commission
o f Human Rights about the prohibition
o n the act of sodomy between male and f emale, nor that the European Court of H uman Rights has ever addressed this i ssue. The European Court of Human R ights has only addressed the issue in
t he context of homosexual relations,
a nd so far as heterosexuals are
c oncerned, I'm not aware that the
p rohibition has ever been
c onsidered.''
D eputy R.E.R. Rumboll - Would not t he Attorney General agree that the
b est way forward is in fact as was
s uggested by the President of the
L egislation Committee in his earlier
r eply that discussions should now
p roceed both with the Home Office and w ith the Policy and Resources
C ommittee, that Committee having the r esponsibility for constitutional
m atters?''
H .M. Attorney General - I entirely a gree with the Deputy that that is the p ractical and sensible way forward.''
D eputy Roche - Could I say, Sir, in v iew of the health situation, that I
w ould hope that the Policy and
R esources Committee would look at it a nd report on it before it goes to the
H ome Office. I think that this is a
v ery serious step, and if I may be
p ermitted, Sir, I know this is not a
q uestion, but I must tell the House of
t he great concern of the Public Health C ommittee, in as much as to date in
t he United Kingdom, there have been 1 ,259 male deaths from AIDS, and out
o f that number, 1,051 have been
h omosexuals.''
D eputy Sir Martin Le Quesne - Mr.
P resident, I'm sure that the Attorney
G eneral's replies were drafted with
t he utmost care, which makes me wonder a bout the penultimate sentence in his
s econd reply. I would like to ask the
A ttorney General whether he is sure
t hat would' is the right word in that
s entence or whether it should be
could'. would' is going pretty
f ar.''
H .M. Attorney General - I think,
S ir, that that is a matter for which,
n o doubt, discussions with the Home O ffice will clarify in due course.''
S enator J.S. Rothwell - Sir, could I
j ust put one, hopefully final,
q uestion to the Attorney General, if I
m ay, to enlighten us all; that under
v arious conventions and international
l aws, occasionally, this Island is
a llowed the leisurely examination of
v arious clauses: occasionally those
w hich it might wish to opt out of.
D oes the Attorney General then suggest t hat this Convention is not such a
c onvention, that we cannot, in fact,
o pt out of any of the clauses in it?
A lthough, I am aware that in the past,
a lthough this is an international
c onvention, Britain itself has opted
o ut of several of its clauses.''
H .M. Attorney General - I think I
w ould like to have notice of that
q uestion, Sir. It is certainly true
t hat some of the clauses have been the s ubject of derogations but whether
t his particular clause could be the
s ubject of a derogation is a matter
w hich I would like to consider.''
States Manual Workers pay offer. Questions and answers.
Deputy Sir Martin Le Quesne of St. Saviour asked Senator Richard Joseph Shenton, President of the Establishment Committee, the following questions -
Will the President inform the House, with reference to the pay offer to the
S tates Manual Workers reported in the J ersey Evening Post on 4th September, 1 989 -
Q uestion 1
What is the value, expressed as a
p ercentage of annual pay calculated
o ver the calendar year 1st June 1988
t o 31st May, 1989, of the combined
a wards of 9.9% with effect from 1st
J une 1989 and a further 2% with effect f rom 1st January, 1990?''
The President of the Establishment Committee replied as follows -
My Committee took over from Sir
M artin Le Quesne's Committee in June, 1 988. It will be of interest to States
M embers to have regard to the
b ackground of negotiated settlements
o ver the last four years in order that
c omparison may be made.
Y ea r C ost of Value of L iv i n g A ward
J u ne 1986 4.8% 6 .8%
J u ne 1987 4.5% 1 0.7%
J u ne 1988 5.4% 7 .4%
J u ne 1989 7.9% 9.9% + 0.9% *
* (Linked to a 2 year deal and a r eview of the grading structure).
T hese figures show an increase in the
t wo years under Sir Martin's Committee
o f eight per cent above Cost of Living p lus a one-off payment of #3.8M to buy
o ut the Bonus Scheme. My Committee f eels that our achievement in securing
a n increase of only 3.8 per cent above C ost of Living for the last two years
w ith the knowledge of an agreed sum
f or 1990 bears favourable
c omparison.''
Deputy Sir Martin Le Quesne Q uestion 2
What are the grounds on which the E stablishment Committee considered i ncreases greater than the rise in the
c ost of living represented by these
a mounts reasonable?''
President, Establishment Committee
Bearing in mind that a manual
w orker's basic pay at the conclusion
o f the 1988 agreement ranges from
# 144.59 per week (#7,545 per annum) to
# 164.58 per week (#8,588 per annum) at
t he top of Grade F, my Committee felt t hat it was not unreasonable for these w orkers to share in the Island's
p rosperity. The top of Grade F equates w ith Grade 4 in the Civil Service and
o ur policy with regard to the lower
p aid members of the public sector, be i t manual worker or civil servant,
r eflects our concern as a fair and
j ust employer.''
Deputy Sir Martin Le Quesne Q uestion 3
Why has the President not followed t he procedure enunciated in his
s tatement to the House on 26th July, 1 988, namely -
F o r the future we will be looking t o t he States for approval of any
a g r eements made prior to their
a c c eptance by the Committee?'
President of the Establishment Committee
The Manual Workers' Joint Council is e mpowered by Act of the States dated
9 th November, 1961 to determine terms a nd conditions of employment for
m anual workers. The settlement for
m anual workers is therefore a Manual
W orkers' Joint Council matter and not
a n Establishment Committee
r esponsibility.''
S upplementary question and answer.
D eputy Sir Martin Le Quesne - In
s upplementary, may I ask the
P resident, in that case, why, in the
a nswers to my questions 1, 2 and 4, he r efers to actions as having been taken b y my Committee?''
P resident, Establishment Committee -
Because the questions were asked by
m y Committee, and as the Manual
W orkers Joint Council was drawn in the m ain from my Committee, I stand and
a nswer them in order that the House
m ay have a proper indication of how
t he negotiations went and how well we d id with the negotiations.''
Deputy Sir Martin Le Quesne
Q uestion 4
Does the President expect the new r ates to be reflected in pay demands f or groups of comparable workers in t he private sector?''
President of the Establishment Committee
I cannot comment on pay demands in t he private sector for groups of
c omparable workers as this is a matter f or individual negotiation. What I
c ould present to the House is the
a ctual settlements for 1988/1989 in
t he private sector, but this would
e mbarrass many private sector
e mployers who obviously do not
p ractice what they preach. Without
m entioning names I can state quite
c ategorically that, with only one or
t wo exceptions, the awards made in the p rivate sector have been in excess of
t hat agreed by the Manual Workers'
J oint Council. In the construction
i ndustry, for example, awards as high
a s 20 per cent have been made and at
l east two of the public utility
c ompanies have certainly exceeded two p er cent above Cost of Living, and
m embers will therefore appreciate that i t is the private sector that needs to
b e constrained.''
S upplementary question and answer.
D eputy Sir Martin Le Quesne - As a s upplementary to that last answer, if t his is the case, has the President
a nd his Committee or the Manual
W orkers Joint Council, or whoever is r esponsible, noted any tendency for
t here to be a drift as one would
e xpect from the public sector to the p rivate sector on the part of manual w orkers, such as we found a year or t wo ago in the civil servants?''
P resident, Establishment Committee -
I'm not aware of movements from the C ivil Service nor indeed from the
m anual workers. All I know is that we h ave dealt with the negotiations and
l ooked at our employees and found that t hey are doing their work in a
s atisfactory manner and the award that w e have made we feel fair and just.
W hat I do consider is that the States
l ook long and hard at the high
i ncreases in the construction sector,
w hich must have a bearing on our
i mmigration policies and our policies w ith regard to restraint. On the other m atters, the matter of the public
u tilities, on one of those companies
t here is certainly a majority of
S tates Members on the board. Perhaps t hey would care to answer that one.
Island Police Force - members of Masonic Order. Questions and answers.
Deputy Sir Martin Le Quesne of St. Saviour, asked Senator Richard Joseph Shenton, President of the Defence Committee, the following questions -
Will the President of the Defence C ommittee inform the House -
Q uestion 1
What view the Defence Committee t akes of the appropriateness of a
m ember of the Island Police Force's b eing at the same time a member of a M asonic Order?
The President of the Defence Committee replied as follows -
The Defence Committee as it is
p resently constituted has never
d iscussed the matter of a member of
t he Island's Police Force also being a
m ember of a Masonic Order. If it is
t hat the Deputy knows of circumstances w hich may cause concern I should like t o receive his comments in order that
a ny complaint may be properly
i nvestigated.
S peaking personally I had been
c oncerned with regard to this matter
b earing in mind that when I took over
a s President the previous Defence
C ommittee had a majority of Members w ho were members of a Masonic Order. T his fact, coupled with the knowledge
t hat two of the Senior Officers facing
p rosecution at the time were also
m embers of a Masonic Order showed a l ack of regard for political
standards. I am pleased to say that no e vidence of impropriety has been
d iscovered and obviously this was a
m atter of innocent error on the part
o f the Members concerned.''
S upplementary questions and answers.
D eputy Sir Martin Le Quesne - A
s upplementary, Mr. President. Surely,
t he President of the Defence Committee i s aware that there is quite
w idespread worry about the possibility
o f a conflict of obligation or duty
f acing a person who is a member both
o f a Masonic Order and, most notably,
o f the Police Force, but there could
b e other branches of public service in w hich the problem arises. Is the
P resident not aware that there is
a nxiety about this? I have been
s urprised at the number of
c ommunications I have received over
t he past week, since I put this
q uestion down, from people who have
t his anxiety. And, is the President,
f urthermore, not aware that it is not
v ery many years since the senior
O fficer of the Metropolitan Police
F orce issued a very well-publicised
d irective to his force, making it
q uite clear that he thought that there
w as a conflict of interests, and he
w ished members of the Metropolitan
P olice Force not to be members of a
M asonic Order? Is it not very
s urprising against the background of
t his evidence of anxiety that the
D efence Committee as it is presently
c onstituted had never discussed the
m atter?''
P resident, Defence Committee - No, S ir. I believe my political career has b een based on a belief in the honesty a nd integrity of others, and
c ertainly, having investigated and not d iscovered any impropriety, there I
l et the matter rest. I think it would
b e terribly wrong if we all went
a round believing that there were
s inister undertones in any actions
t hat people may take. I am satisfied t hat promotion and other appointments a re made on the basis of merit and
n othing to do with whatever Lodge,
A ssociation or indeed whatever
f riendships may obtain. I can only say
t hat the answer to my last question
p oses in my opinion, more concern,
b ecause it is in the matter of
a ppointments that very often in the
p ast, people have felt that the
m embers of a Masonic Order (maybe
q uite erroneously) that members of a
M asonic Order received certain
f avouritism in the way appointments
w ere made; and therefore one should be m ore concerned with the presence of
p eople in high office in a position
w here appointments in the Civil
S ervice could be made. So, we are not
i n disagreement on this matter, but
s uffice it to say that I would not
w ish to spread concern to the public,
b ecause I believe that we are aware
o f, in the main, those members who are m embers of a Masonic Order, and as far a s the Police is concerned, I can only
d o that which I've already stated, is
a t the time investigated and found no
i mpropriety, and in fact, appointments a re made purely on merit. May I say
h ere and now that as someone who has h ad something to say about the Masonic O rder quite publicly, may I say about
i t that their attitude more recently,
i n the way that they have come out
p ublicly to explain their society to
t he public, I think shows good and
s hows a correct approach to this
m atter, and the more that this matter
i s aired in an open manner, the more
t hat I think that we can all learn to
b e tolerant of one another and their
r espective views.''
D eputy T.J. Jordan - May I ask a
s upplementary question, Sir. I'm
s orry, I didn't see the President of
D efence, but I'd like to ask a
q uestion, Sir. It's just a
r eaffirmation: is it true, can the
P resident of Defence confirm that the
D efence Committee appoints all
p romotions on the Police Force and
t hat the Defence Committee has not
g ot, I don't believe, any members of a
M asonic Order on the Defence Committee
a t this present time?''
P resident, Defence Committee - I
c annot say that with all certainty
S ir. I can only restate what I said. I
b elieve quite sincerely - I serve on
c ommittees where members are Masons, a nd they make no secret of the fact, I
r espect them for that in the same way
t hat they recognise that I'm a
C atholic and it would be entirely
w rong for me to load my Committee with C atholics, in case an appointment was
m ade which would look as though
i nfluence was used. I think we must
l ive in a society where we should try
t o impress upon the public the fact
t hat people in the main are not
i rresponsible, do not act in a
s inister way, and although I've had
c alls, both, shall we say, expressing
t heir names, and doing so anonymously, I would like to assure the public that
I do not believe that in the case of
t he Island Police Force, that this
m atter is a problem.''
D eputy Sir Martin Le Quesne - I
d on't think I'll put up the other two q uestions. The second question is in t he notes, and I think the President h as fairly well answered that.''
P resident, Defence Committee - Well, I think Sir, in fairness, I don't want
a nything to be hidden. I would like to a nswer the question.''
D eputy Sir Martin Le Quesne - You d on't need to answer my question,
What instructions have been given to t he Police Chief?' because obviously, i f the Committee hasn't considered it, i t hasn't given any instructions, so
I 'll repeat my third question.''
P resident, Defence Committee - Yes, I must, I think, if I'm allowed to, I
m ust say that all I clarified in
Q uestion 2 was whilst I've answered
no instructions have been given to
t he Chief Officer, I cannot speak on behalf of the other Island Police a uthorities, namely, the Honorary P olice'. I'm not aware - I cannot
s peak for them.''
Deputy Sir Martin Le Quesne Q uestion 3
To the best of his knowledge how
m any members of the Police Force are c urrently members of a Masonic
O rder?''
President, Defence Committee
I am unaware of the number of
m embers of the Police Force who are
c urrently members of a Masonic Order. A ll I would say in answer to this
q uestion is that at the time of my
p revious investigation there appeared
t o be more Members of the States who
w ere members of a Masonic Order than t here were members of a Masonic Order i n the States Police Force.''
Civil Service pay. Statement.
The President of the Establishment Committee made a statement in the following terms -
The Establishment Committee is
p leased to announce that a settlement h as been reached with the Civil
S ervice. A two year deal has been
a chieved the details are as follows -
1 . Increases with effect from 1st J u n e, 1989 -
G ra d es 1 - 7 1 0% G ra d es 8 - 15 7.25% A G r ades 6 % .
T h i s has the overall effect of
i n cr easing the Civil Service wage b i ll by 7.9% - Cost of Living
o n l y.
2 . An increase of two per cent on all r a te s with effect from 1st
J a n uary, 1990.
3 . An increase by Cost of Living only
o n all rates with effect from 1st
J u n e, 1990.
T he Establishment Committee is
p articularly heartened by the approach
t aken by the Civil Service Staff Side
E xecutive in distributing the 7.9 per
c ent increase for June, 1990. The
E xecutive has taken on board the view e xpressed by myself and other members
o f the States concerning the lower
p aid employees and given 10 per cent
t o those with the higher paid making
t he sacrifice in receiving less than
Cost of Living, 7.25 per cent for most
g rades and 6 per cent in the case of
t he highest paid.
T he Establishment Committee sees this a s the beginning of a new era in terms
o f its relationship with its
w orkforce. My Committee believes that f or the most part it has employees who w ork hard and provide a service to the I sland that compares very favourably
w ith any in the world. My Committee
a nd Civil Service Staff Side have
a greed to set up a Working Party to
d evelop this new relationship and also f undamentally review such aspects as
t he pay structure and negotiation and
a rbitration procedures.
M y Committee is obviously fully aware
o f pressures on local employers in a
s ituation of a labour shortage, but we
a re also employers and will have to
h ave regard in the future to levels of
p ay being offered by our competitors
i n the private sector.
T his settlement means that the
E stablishment Committee's objective of n ot increasing the Civil Service wage
b ill for 1989 by more than the Cost of L iving has been achieved. It is true
t hat the settlement means two per cent a bove Cost of Living for 1990 but the C ommittee regards this as a very
m odest increase when set against the
s ituation over the three years 1988,
1 989 and 1990. My Committee since
t aking office has now achieved Cost of L iving only for 1988 and 1989 and Cost
o f Living plus 2 per cent for 1990. We b elieve that in so doing we have set a
t arget for private sector employers to
f ollow. Private sector employers have b een very ready to criticise any
s ettlement in the public sector as
i nflationary while they have continued t o agree awards to their own employees c onsistently above Cost of Living,
s ometimes as high as 15 per cent or
m ore.
W e will now be seeking the most
e ffective way of monitoring increases
a nd levels of pay in the private
s ector in the hope that our challenge
w ill be taken up and a more stable
a pproach on pay to local employees can b e achieved in the future.''
Supplementary and Additional Votes of Credit.
THE STATES considered an Act of
the Finance and Economics Committee dated 18th September, 1989, presenting Acts of
the undermentioned Committees and, acceding to the requests contained therein, granted
to the said Committees supplementary (S)
and additional (A) votes of credit out of
the General Reserve as follows -
S A
# #
Finance and Economics Committee
Bailiff 's Chambers
0 301 Staff 1 2 ,0 00
0 302 Premises 3 0 0
0 303 Supplies and services 3 00 0 305 Establishment 1 ,0 0 0
Police Court
0 342 Premises 4 0 0
0 343 Supplies and services 2 00 0 345 Establishment 1 ,1 0 0
ca r r ie d forward 15,300
S A
# #
Finance and Economics Committee (cont'd)
b ro u g h t forward 15,300
Official Analyst's Department
0 385 Establishment 1 ,0 0 0
States Greffe
0 393 Supplies and services 3,100 0 395 Establishment 2 ,6 0 0
0 396 Publications and binding 2,900
States Greffe Printing Section
0 403 Supplies and services 11,900
T o ta l r equest 36,800 Defence Committee
Immigration and Nationality Department 1 105 Establishment 8 ,9 0 0
Motor Traffic Office
1 122 Premises 1 1 ,300
1 123 Supplies and services 2,300 1 125 Establishment 1 ,0 0 0
Police
1 202 Premises 4 ,9 00
1 203 Supplies and services 30,200 1 204 Transport 1 2,500
1 205 Establishment 3 2 , 4 00
1 206 Dogs 2 0 0
1 211 Police canteen 4 , 8 0 0
ca r r ie d forward 108,500
S A
# #
Defence Committee (cont'd)
b ro u g h t forward 108,500
Fire Service
1 302 Premises 2 ,1 00
1 303 Supplies and services 6,400 1 304 Transport 3 , 100
1 305 Establishment 3 ,0 0 0
T o ta l r equest 123,100 Public Works Committee
Public Buildings
2 088 Capital servicing 4 50,000
Education Committee
Child Welfare
2 912 Staff 3 1 ,3 00
2 913 Premises 9 ,0 00
2 915 Supplies and services 3,600 2 917 Transport 2 0 0
2 918 Establishment 6 0 0
3 070 Teachers' pension increases a n d p e nsions for recognised
s e rv i c es 5 5 ,000
T o ta l r equest 99,700
S A
# #
Public Health Committee
Community Health Services
3 202 Premises 6 ,3 00
3 203 Supplies and services 12,100 3 204 Transport 1 , 600
3 205 Establishment 3 ,6 0 0
3 207 Health and Social
S e r v ic es - Miscellaneous 62,80 0
Grants
3 211 Jersey Family Nursing S e r v ic es 4 1 ,200
3 212 Jersey Home Helps
S o c i e ty 4 , 4 00
General and Acute Services
3 221 Staff 2 0,700
3 222 Premises 1 02,100
3 223 Supplies and services 238,100 3 224 Transport 1 , 500
3 225 Establishment 5 0 , 4 00
St. Saviour 's Hospital
3 241 Staff 1 , 5 0 0
3 242 Premises 2 9 ,600
3 243 Supplies and services 50,000 3 244 Transport 8 0 0
3 245 Establishment 4 ,5 0 0
Care of the Elderly
3 252 Premises 4 1 ,000
3 253 Supplies and services 48,000 3 255 Establishment 3 ,0 0 0
ca r r ie d forward 723,200
S A
# #
Public Health Committee (cont'd) b ro u g h t forward 723,200
Ambulance Service and Transport
3 261 Staff 8 0 0
3 262 Premises 1 ,6 00
3 263 Supplies and services 8,300 3 264 Transport 9 , 000
3 265 Establishment 1 ,0 0 0
Laundry Trading Account
3 272 Premises 4 0 0
3 273 Supplies and services 1,200 3 275 Establishment 4 0 0
T o ta l r equest 745,900
Agriculture and Fisheries Committee
Administration
4 101 Staff 1 0 ,1 00
4 102 Premises 6 ,0 00
4 103 Supplies and services 5,900 4 104 Transport 1 , 800
4 105 Establishment 9 ,5 0 0
4 106 Disposal of agricultural
a n d h o rticultural waste 700
4 109 Sea Fisheries 4 ,0 0 0
Howard Davis Farm
4 112 Premises 5 ,3 00
4 113 Supplies and services 8,500 4 114 Transport and plant 1,200
ca r r ie d forward 53,000
S A
# #
Agriculture and Fisheries Committee (cont'd)
b ro u g h t forward 53,000
Slaughterhouse
4 122 Premises 1 ,4 00
4 123 Supplies and services 3,100 4 124 Transport 9 00
4 125 Establishment 2 0 0
Subsidies and Grants
4 131 Anti-blight and Colorado
b e e tl e 6 ,1 0 0
4 132 Aid to dairy industry 10,000 4 135 Subsidy on control of
p o t a to root eelworm 17,000
4 139 Financial assistance for
t h e i m provement of
p r o d u cer/co-operative
m a rk e ting 1 6,300
4 140 Advertising, market
r e se a r ch etc. 9 ,5 0 0
4 143 Growers - interest
s u b s id y scheme 6 , 4 0 0
Artificial Insemination and Semen
Bank Scheme
4 152 Premises 7 0 0
4 153 Supplies and services 1 , 8 0 0
4 154 Transport and plant 100
4 155 Establishment 2 0 0
T o ta l r equest 126,700
S A
# #
Social Security Committee
Benefits of a non-contributory
nature
4 812 Family allowances 3 21,000
Cottage Homes Committee
4 901 Staff 2 , 2 0 0
4 902 Premises 1 1 ,200
4 903 Supplies and services 2 00
T o ta l r equest 13,600 Establishment Committee
States Personnel Department:
Personnel and Organisation Divisions 5 131 Employment of the
d i sa b l ed 1 2 ,5 0 0
Computer Services Division
5 121 Staff 1 , 3 0 0
5 122 Premises 5 ,4 00
5 123 Supplies and services 51,400 5 125 Establishment 3 ,0 0 0
Pension and Pension Fund
Contributions
5 111 Pension and gratuities
p a y a b le under the Civil
S e r v ic e (Administration)
( J er s e y) Rules 1963 3,800
5 113 Pensions to retired public
s e rv i c e employees 1 6 ,900
Total request #94,300 81,800 12,500
S A
# #
Island Development Committee
Administration
5 202 Premises 1 ,2 00
5 203 Supplies and services 5,600 5 204 Transport 2 0 0
5 205 Establishment 5 ,4 0 0
5 206 Preparation of surveys,
d e v e lo pment plans,
c o n s u ltation fees, etc. 25,000
5 207 Expenses in respect of
l a w s o perated by the
C o m m ittee 1 5,400
T o ta l r equest 52,800 Elizabeth House Committee
5 301 Staff 3 , 6 0 0
5 302 Premises 2 ,6 00
5 303 Supplies and services 3 00 5 305 Establishment 2 0 0
T o ta l r equest 6,700 Housing Committee
States Houses
5 412 Maintenance of States' D w e ll ings 1 35,100
S A
# #
Fort Regent Development Committee
Main complex
5 742 Premises 4 3 ,800
5 743 Supplies and services 26,900 5 745 Establishment 1 5 , 6 00
External amenities
5 752 Premises 1 0 ,100
5 753 Supplies and services 3,600
Swimming pool
5 783 Supplies and services 2,700
T o ta l r equest 102,700
Telecommunications Board
4 500 Operating Expenses 230,100
CAPITAL VOTES OF CREDIT Education Committee
C 2519 Primary School i m p r o vements -
S t . L u kes 6 ,700
Public Health Committee
C 0644 General Hospital Phase II
- d e s ig n fees 1 9 , 0 00
C 0660 General Hospital Phase II 27,0 0 0
C 0688 General Hospital Phase
I II - T heatres and Ward s 52,00
0
ca r r ie d forward 98,000
S A
# #
Public Health Committee (cont'd) b ro u g h t forward 98,000
C 2725 General Hospital Phase
I II - w ard upgrading 117,000 C 2731 Ambulance Station -
E x t e n sion 4 5 ,000
T o ta l r equest 260,000 Resources Recovery Board
C 0418 Sewer replacement -
S t . M artin's rising main 31,50 0
C 0452 Sewer extensions -
L e R o n din 620,000
C o r b i è re 348,000
T o ta l r equest 999,500 Postal Committee
C 1303 Automated sorting
e q u i p ment 5 0 0 , 0 00
The total requests granted for the September Supply Day amounted to #4,304,700.
Agent of the Impôts: appointment.
THE STATES, adopting a Proposition
of the Finance and Economics Committee, approved the appointment of Mr. Anthony Leonard Renouf as Agent of the Impôts with effect from 1st October, 1989.
Les Quennevais School: staff houses.
THE STATES, adopting a Proposition of the Education Committee -
( a) approved Drawings Nos. 2302/184, 2 3 0 2/185 and 2302/110 showing the c o n struction of two detached
h o u ses at Les Quennevais School;
( b) authorised the Greffier of the
S t a tes to sign the said Drawings
o n behalf of the States.
Airport: Administration Building No. 2 - lease of accommodation.
THE STATES, adopting a Proposition of the Harbours and Airport Committee - ( a) approved the leasing to OSL
C h a nnel Island Travel Service
L i m ited of 3,095 square feet of
a c c ommodation in the Airline
A d ministration Building No. 2 at
t h e Airport (designated Letting
N o s. B67A and B67B) for a period
o f t hree years, with effect from
1 s t September, 1989, at a rent of
# 2 1 ,665.00 a year;
( b) authorised the Greffier of the S t a tes to sign the necessary
a g r eement;
( c) authorised the Treasurer of the S t a tes to receive the rent as it
b e c omes due.
Sheltered Workshop for the mentally handicapped. P.96/89.
THE STATES, adopting a Proposition
of the Social Security Committee, approved in principle the setting up of a sheltered workshop for the mentally handicapped.
Tenants in private sector: security of tenure: P.100/89.
THE STATES, adopting a Proposition
of Senator John Stephen Rothwell, requested the Legislation Committee to review the
Loi (1946) concernant l'expulsion des locataires réfractaires'' with a view to providing greater security of tenure for tenants in the private sector.
Health and Safety at Work (Jersey) Law, 1989 (Appointed Day) Act, 1989. P.114/89.
THE STATES, in pursuance of
Article 30 of the Health and Safety at Work (Jersey) Law, 1989, made an Act entitled the Health and Safety at Work (Jersey) Law, 1989 (Appointed Day) Act, 1989.
Health and Safety at Work (Appeal Tribunal) (Jersey) Regulations, 1989. P.108/89 and P.125/89.
THE STATES commenced consideration of the draft Health and Safety at Work (Appeal Tribunal) (Jersey) Regulations, 1989 and adopted the Preamble and Regulation 1.
Regulation 2 was adopted, the States having accepted an amendment of the Social Security Committee that for the word
advocate'' there should be substituted
the words advocate or solicitor'' in both places where it occurs.
Regulations 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 were adopted.
THE STATES, in pursuance of Article 17 of the Health and Safety at Work (Jersey) Law, 1989, made Regulations entitled the Health and Safety at Work (Appeal Tribunal) (Jersey) Regulations, 1989.
Health and Safety Appeal Tribunal: appointment of members. P.124/89.
THE STATES, adopting a Proposition
of the Social Security Committee, appointed the undermentioned as members of the Health and Safety Appeal Tribunal, in pursuance of Article 17 of the Health and Safety at Work (Jersey) Law, 1989 and the Health and
Safety at Work (Appeal Tribunal) (Jersey) Regulations, 1989, for a period of three
years commencing 1st November, 1989 -
A dvocate Geoffrey Le Vesconte Fiott, C hairman
A dvocate Charles Malcolm Belford T hacker, Deputy Chairman
M r. David Le Marquand M r. John William Gollop.
Health and Safety at Work (Improvement and Prohibition Notices Appeals) (Jersey) Regulations, 1989. P.109/89.
THE STATES, in pursuance of
Article 17 of the Health and Safety at Work (Jersey) Law, 1989, made Regulations entitled the Health and Safety at Work (Improvement and Prohibition Notices Appeals) (Jersey) Regulations, 1989. Harbours (Vehicle Ramps) (Jersey) Regulations, 1989. P.119/89.
THE STATES, by virtue and in
exercise of the powers conferred on them by the Order in Council of the fourteenth day of April, 1884, made Regulations entitled the Harbours (Vehicle Ramps) (Jersey) Regulations, 1989.
THE STATES rose at 3.10 p.m.
R . S . G RAY Deputy Greffier of the States.