States Minutes 27th June 1989

STATES MINUTES 2 7 th Ju ne, 1989  P r ic e : 7 5 p  

 THE STATES assembled on Tuesday, 27th June, 1989 at 10.15 a.m. under

 t he Presidency of the Bailiff ,

S i r Peter Crill, C.B.E.

_ _ _ _ _ _______

 His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor, Admiral Sir William Pillar, G.B.E., K.C.B. ,

w a s p r esent.

_ _ _ _ _ _______

All Members were present with the exception of -

S enator Richard Joseph Shenton - out

o f the Island.

 R ichard Winter Le Sauteur, Connétable

o f Grouville - out of the Island.

 S ir Martin Le Quesne, Deputy of St.

S aviour - out of the Island.

_ _ _ _ _ _______

Prayers read by the Deputy Greffier _ _ _ _ _ _______

Deputy M.S.R. Beadle of St. Brelade - welcome.

The Bailiff , on behalf of the

States, welcomed Deputy Margaret Sylvia Rose Beadle of St. Brelade on her return to the States after her recent operation.

H.M. Attorney General and H.M. Solicitor General - Queen's Counsel.

The Bailiff , on behalf of the

States, congratulated H.M. Attorney General, Mr. Philip Martin Bailhache and H.M. Solicitor General, Mr. Terence Cubitt Sowden, on their appointment as Queen's

Counsel.

Subordinate legislation tabled.

The following enactments were laid before the States, namely -

 1 .  Health Insurance (Pharmaceutical B e n efit List) (Amendment No. 3) ( J er sey) Order, 1989. R & O 7932.

 2 .  Social Security (Incapacity

B e n efit) (Amendment No. 3)

( J er sey) Order, 1989. R & O 7933.

 3 .  Invalid Care and Disability

A  ll owances (General Provisions)

( A m endment No. 6) (Jersey) Order, 1 9 8 9. R & O 7934.

 4 .  Consumer Protection (Protective    H elmets) (Amendment No. 2)

( J er sey) Order, 1989. R & O 7935.

Committee for Postal

Administration - resignation of member.

THE STATES noted the resignation

of Deputy Thomas John du Feu of St. Peter from the Committee for Postal Administration.

Oakfield Industries Limited:

report and accounts for 1988. R.C.12.

The Social Security Committee, by

Act dated 22nd June, 1989, presented to the States the report and accounts of Oakfield Industries Limited for the year ended 31st December, 1988.

THE STATES ordered that the said report and accounts be printed and distributed.

Matters lodged.

The following subjects were lodged au Greffe'' -

 1 .  Draft Residential Care Homes

( R e gistration) (Jersey) Law, 198 . P . 9 8/89.

P r e sented by the Public Health C o m mittee.

2 . Draft Health and Safety at Work ( A m endment) (Jersey) Law, 198 . P . 9 9/89.

P r e sented by the Social Security C o m mittee. The States decided to t a ke this subject into

c o n sideration on 25th July, 1989.

 3 .  Tenants in private sector:

s e c urity of tenure. P.100/89.

P r e sented by Senator John Stephen R o t hwell.

Health Insurance Exception:

criteria for claims. P.74/88 withdrawn.

THE STATES noted that in pursuance

of Standing Order 17(6) the Proposition regarding the criteria for claims for

Health Insurance Exception (lodged on 14th June, 1988) had been withdrawn.

9-11 Cannon Street, St. Helier : purchase. P.95/89.

THE STATES acceded to the request

of the President of the Island Development Committee that the Proposition regarding the purchase of 9-11 Cannon Street, St. Helier (lodged on 20th June, 1989) be considered on 25th July, 1989.

Troy Court, Grands Vaux. Question and answer.

Deputy Mervyn Renouf Billot of St. Saviour asked Deputy Hendricus Adolphus Vandervliet of St. Lawrence, President of the Housing Committee, the following question -

  Will the President tell the House of

 t he ways in which the Housing

 C ommittee might help the residents of  T roy Court to continue to live in

 t heir flats, for example by providing

 a ssistance towards the purchase of

 t heir flats by share transfer?''

The President of the Housing Committee

replied as follows -

  At the present time there is no

a s s istance which my Committee is a b le to give to people who may

w  is h to purchase flats by share

t ra n sfer. The Building Loan

R e g ulations do not permit my

C o m mittee to advance loans, other t h an on the purchase of freehold

p r o perty or on long leases on

p r o perty owned by the Committee. H  o wever, we are currently

d i sc ussing with the Crown Officers t h e possibility of amending the

R e g ulations to enable the

C o m mittee to make loans on share t ra n sfer transactions, and my

C o m mittee is considering the

a r g uments for and against doing

s o , bearing in mind, for example,

t h at the Committee has no control

o v e r the price at which shares are

b o u ght and sold.

 I t is difficult to envisage a

t im  e-scale for these

i n v estigations, but my Committee i s v ery hopeful that the Courts

w  il l give the tenants of Troy

C o u rt a long stay of eviction,

c e rt ainly one long enough for such c h a nges to the Building Loans

R e g ulations to be made if that

c o u rse of action is to be adopted.

 A nother possibility is the flying

f re e hold'. Members are aware that t h e timing of any changes to the

L a w enabling flats to be bought

f re e hold, and therefore mortgaged, i s o utside the control of my

C o m mittee. Things appear to be

h a p pening, and here again, in the

e v e nt of the new Law being

o p e rative before Troy Court

e v ic tions take effect, loans may

b e m ade on the purchase of flats.

I should add for completeness that the

g ranting of a loan is also affected by

o ther factors such as the ability of

t he applicant to make the repayments

w ithin the financial parameters of the

s cheme and also on the Committee being s atisfied on the standard of the

p roperty on which a loan is requested.

W hilst on the question of Troy Court,

I should like to make a small

d igression, and refer to current

d evelopments. My Committee shares the a bhorrence felt by many at the way

t enants are being treated and also

s hares the hope expressed by some

s enior Members of the House recently

t hat the Courts will grant generous

s tays of eviction. Every tenant

s eeking States rental accommodation

w ill, on application to the Housing

D epartment, receive the standard

a pplication form to complete. Those

m eeting the Committee's criteria for

S tates accommodation will be assured

o f rehousing upon eviction. Those not m eeting such criteria will be offered

c ounselling from experienced members

o f the staff on how best they may

p roceed.''

Norman's Timber Yard (Clos du Fort). Questions and answers.

Deputy Shirley Margaret Baudains

of St. Helier asked Deputy Hendricus Adolphus Vandervliet of St. Lawrence, President of the Housing Committee, the following questions -

1.  Is the President satisfied

t h a t th e cost of developing

t h e r e nted units of

a c c o m modation on the site of

N  o rm  an's Timber Yard (average

o f a p p roximately #107,000 per

u n i t) r epresents good value

f o r m o ney and will he assure

t h e H o use that the money

n e e d e d to fund the total cost

o f t h is development would not

h a v e b een better spent on

b u i ld i ng States loan houses on

a f i e ld already zoned for

d e v e lo pment?

 2 .  Is the President satisfied

t h at sufficient capital funds are,

o r w ill be, made available to the

H  o using Committee to construct S t a tes loan houses on three fields w  h ich have been zoned for such

d e v elopment?''

The President of the Housing Committee replied as follows -

1.  I cannot reveal the precise

e s ti m a ted unit cost of

b u i ld i ng rental units of

a c c o m modation on the site of N  o rm  an's Timber Yard given t h a t w e are yet to go out to

t e n d er . However, when site

a c q u is ition, rockface

s ta b i li sation, professional

f e e s a nd building costs are

a l l ta k en into account, I must a g r e e that Deputy Baudain's f ig u r e might not be far off

t h e m  ark.

T h e States have in the past

r e co gnised that the development of

o u t worn commercial sites in the

t o w n area will involve higher than u s u al construction costs, but that

s u c h sites make a valuable

c o n tribution to increasing the

s u p ply of housing units. In these

c i rc umstances my Committee is

c o n vinced that the provision of 59 u r g ently needed units of States

r e n tal accommodation on this site w  il l indeed provide value for

m  o ney.

T h e question of these funds being b e tt er spent on building States

L o a n houses on a field already

z o n ed for development simply does n o t arise. Loan developments are

f u n ded from bridging-finance'

m  ad e available by the Finance and E c o nomics Committee under the

F i n ance Law, and repaid from the D  w elling Houses Loan Fund. In

p a r agraph 4 of my Committee's

C a p ital Proposals for 1990 (P.87), w  e specifically make the point

t h at loan developments have

a l te rnative funding

a r ra ngements'. The report

d e s cribes how the Committee is

s o o n to start building 40 loan

f la t s at Le Marais; is preparing

s c h emes yielding 70 loan houses in S t . Clement and La Moye; and is c u r rently negotiating for further s it e s on which to build States

L o a n houses.

 2 .  I do not know to which three'

f ie l ds the Deputy is referring in

h e r question, but I can assure the

H  o use that both my Committee, and p r iv ate developers, are currently

w  o rking on loan developments

i n v olving more than three fields.

I h a ve every confidence that the

n e c essary finance will be made

a v a ilable under the arrangements

d e s cribed above. The current

s h o rtage of States Loan dwellings

i s d ue to a lack of zoned sites,

a n d not to lack of funds.''

Cost of houses at Les Cinq Chênes,

St. Saviour and Garden Lane, St. Helier . Question and answer.

Deputy Shirley Margaret Baudains

of St. Helier asked Deputy Hendricus Adolphus Vandervliet of St. Lawrence, President of the Housing Committee, the following question -

  The States were informed on 13th

 J une, 1989 that the Housing Committee  h ad accepted the lowest tender in the

 s um of #246,700 for the construction

o f three detached houses at Les Cinq

 C hênes  and on 20th June 1989 that it

 h ad accepted the lowest tender in the

 s um of #65,460 for the construction of

o ne house at Garden Lane.

W ill the President give a detailed breakdown of the costings for each d evelopment?''

The President of the Housing Committee replied as follows -

  I do not feel that I can give in

a n s wer to a question in the States

a d e tailed breakdown of the

b u i lding costs for the two

d e v elopments in question, other

t h an to confirm that the average

b u i lding cost per house at Les

C i n q Chênes  would be #82,233 and t h e house at Garden Lane will cost

# 6 5 ,460. Detailed costings are so e x te nsive that I would need to p r o duce pages of figures which

w  o uld be of little assistance to

t h e House, given that the two

s c h emes are not comparable.

D  et ailed costings for bother

s c h emes are available in my

D  ep artment and I would be

d e li ghted to meet with Deputy

B a u dains or any other Member of t h e States who would wish to view t h es e.

T he prices of both schemes were p r oduced by open competitive t e nd er in accordance with

e s ta blished States procedures.

I think the Deputy is really wanting

t o know if there are good reasons why t he houses on Les Cinq Chênes  site

c ost significantly more than the

G arden Lane house. There are indeed g ood reasons and they are in the main t he following -

 ( i) the overall site area for the

G  ar d e n Lane house measures

o n l y 6 80 square feet, whereas

e a c h o f Les Cinq Chênes

h o u s e s occupies a site area at

l e as t t wice as much.

C o n s e quently, external site

w  o rk s to the Garden Lane house a r e m  inimal (e.g. as the

d r a w i ngs displayed in the

S t a te s showed, there is

i n su f f icient room even for one

p a r k in g space to be provided)

w  h er e as at Les Cinq Chênes

t h er e are to be garden walls,

p a r king spaces and footpaths

   p rovided, as well as alterations

t o t he existing footpaths and

p a r king facilities on the estate;

 ( ii)  the heating apparatus to be

p r o v id ed in Les Cinq Chênes h o u s e s will be in accordance w  it h t hat provided elsewhere

o n th e estate and will be more

e x p e n sive than that provided i n t h e Garden Lane house;

( iii) the nature of the respective

d e v e lo pments was such that

t h e y u nderstandably attracted

d i ff e r ent levels of tender.

T h e C ommittee received a good r e sp o n se to the invitations to

t e n d er for the Garden Lane

h o u s e and was delighted with

t h e c o mpetitive tenders

r e c ei v ed. However, the three

s e p a ra te sites for houses at

L e s C  inq Chênes  on different p a r ts o f the estate was not an

a t tr a c tive proposition for

b u i ld i ng contractors, with

e a c h s ite requiring

c o n s id erable expense to keep

s e c u re in the middle of a

f a m i ly estate. It was only

a f te r i nviting tenders for a

s e c o n d time that the tender in

t h e s u m of #246,700 was

a c c e p ted. It is interesting to

n o t e t hat the lowest tenderer

f o r L e s Cinq Chênes  scheme

a l so te ndered for the Garden

L a n e scheme where it was the

s e c ond lowest tender,

i n d ic a ting that even this keen

c o m  p etitor recognised the

d i ff e r ence in the two

s c h e m es.''

Le Geyt Flats and Tower Maisonettes refuse stores.

THE STATES, adopting a Proposition of the Housing Committee -

 ( a) approved Drawing Nos. 2090/100, 1 0 1 , 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 1 0 8 , 109 and 111 for the

c o n struction of nine new refuse

s to r es at Le Geyt Flats and one at

T o w er Maisonettes;

 ( b) authorised the Greffier of the

S t a tes to sign the said Drawing on b e h alf of the States.

Victoria College/Jersey College for Girls: development. P.79/89.

THE STATES, adopting a Proposition of the Education Committee -

 ( a) approved, in principle, the

d e v elopment of a new library and c a re ers department at Victoria

C o l lege;

 ( b) noted that, as proposals for the

l o n g term future of Jersey College

f o r Girls and Jersey College for

G  ir ls Preparatory School will be

t h e subject of a detailed report

a n d proposition to be presented to

t h e States in 1990, the Education

C o m mittee will, as recommended by t h e Finance and Economics

C o m mittee, make provision in its

1 9 9 0 revenue budget for the work

w  h ich will be necessary to

m  ai ntain the two schools on their

p r e sent sites for a further five

y e a rs.

Public Health Committee: capital projects for 1990. P.78/89.

THE STATES, adopting a Proposition

of the Public Health Committee, approved in principle -

( a) a new central laundry;

 ( b) structural repairs and

i m p rovements to Westaway Court;

 ( c) repairs, alterations and

i m p rovements to the General H o spital -

( i) c ook-chill kitchen a l te r a tions;

( ii )  e quipment for the

in t e n si v e /coronary care u n it ;

 ( d) the improvement and refurbishment

o f O verdale Hospital;

 ( e) the acquisition and adaptation of a p r operty to be used as a group

h o m e for people with mental

i ll n ess;

 ( f) the acquisition and conversion of a p p roximately 20 units of staff

a c c ommodation.

Tourism (Amendment No. 5) (Jersey) Law, 1989. P.91/89.

THE STATES, subject to the

sanction of Her Most Excellent Majesty in Council, adopted a Law entitled the Tourism (Amendment No. 5) (Jersey) Law, 1989.

Air Training Corps Jersey

Squadron: new headquarters. P.92/89.

THE STATES, adopting a Proposition

of the Defence Committee, approved in principle the provision of new headquarters for the Air Training Corps Jersey Squadron on land in public ownership.

Ecology Trust Fund. P.90/89.

THE STATES, having accepted an amendment of Senator Dereck André Carter that for the words with proposals to establish'' there should be substituted the words on the establishment of'', adopted the Proposition of Senator Carter

requesting the Finance and Economics Committee to report back to the States on the establishment of an Ecology Trust Fund, using whatever funds are received by the States in respect of compensation for the Amoco Cadiz disaster, with the remit partially or wholly to grant aid any

activity, whether by a public or private

body or individual, designed to promote or protect the environment or ecology of the Bailiwick of Jersey.

THE STATES rose at 12.55 p.m.

R . S . G R A Y Deputy Greffier of the States.