States Minutes 18th June 1991

STATES MINUTES 18t h J une 1991 P r ice : # 1.00

THE STATES assembled on Tuesday, 18th June 1991 at 9.30 a.m. under

t he Presidency of the Bailiff ,

S i r P eter Crill, C.B.E.

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All Members were present with the exception of -

S enator Anne Baal - ill.

R obin Ernest Richard Rumboll, Deputy

o f St. Helier - out of the Island.

D erek Ryder Maltwood, Deputy of St. M ary - out of the Island.

D avid Leon Crespel, Deputy of St.

H elier - out of the Island.

___ _______ __

P rayers read by the Greffier ___ _______ __

La Caroline, La Grande Rue, St. Mary : report of the Special Committee

The Bailiff presented to the States

a report of the Special Committee appointed to inquire into the course of events

which led to the Island Development Committee's approving an application from Oak Tree Developments Limited to establish a haulage, plant hire and demolition contractors' depot at La Caroline, St.

Mary'' (P.15/91).

THE STATES ordered that the said report be printed and distributed.

Subordinate legislation tabled

The following enactments were laid before the States, namely -

1 . Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) ( A m endment No. 4) (Jersey) Order 1991. R & O 8213.

2 . Road Vehicles (Registration Marks) ( A m endment No. 6) (Jersey) Order

1991. R & O 8214.

3 . Wine and Made-Wine (Revenue Duty) ( A m endment No. 4) (Jersey) Order

1991. R & O 8215.

4 . Gorey Fête (Jersey) Order 1991. R & O 8216.

5 . St. Clement Fête (Jersey) Order 1991. R & O 8217.

Establishment Committee: resignation and appointment of member

THE STATES noted the resignation of Deputy Thomas James Jordan of St. Brelade from the Establishment Committee and approved the appointment of Deputy David Leon Crespel of St. Helier to that Committee.

Telecommunications Board report for 1990

The Telecommunications Board by Act dated 31st May 1991, presented to the States its report for the year 1990.

THE STATES ordered that the said report be printed and distributed.

Probation Service report for 1990

The Prison Board by Act dated 26th April 1991, presented to the States the report of the Probation Service for 1990.

THE STATES ordered that the said report be printed and distributed.

Jersey Women's Refuge: report and accounts for 1990

The Defence Committee by Act dated 17th May 1991, presented to the States the annual report and accounts of the Jersey Women's Refuge for 1990.

THE STATES ordered that the said report be printed and distributed.

Matters noted - land transactions

THE STATES noted an Act of the

Finance and Economics Committee dated 10th June 1991, showing that in pursuance of Standing Orders relating to certain transactions in land, the Committee had approved -

( a) as recommended by the

I sl and Development Committee, with t he s upport of the Housing

C om mittee, the purchase from Mrs.

R ut h Young née Holmes, of No. 1

C om mercial Buildings, St. Helier

f or t he sum of #115,000, plus the

paym ent of all legal fees;

( b) as recommended by the

H o us ing Committee and with the s uppo rt of the Island Development C om mittee, the purchase -

( i) f rom Mrs. Phyllida May

C am pbel l, née Gowing, of No. 74 C ol omberie, St. Helier , for t he s u m of #138,000;

( ii ) f rom Columbus Holdings L im it ed of No.76

C ol om ber ie, St. Helier ,

for t he s um of #123,000;

( ii i) f rom Mr. Douglas Naidoo,

o f N os . 7 8 and 82

C ol om ber ie, St. Helier ,

for t he s um of #92,000;

( iv ) F rom Mrs. Felisha Le

V es cont e, n ée Naidoo, and M r s . Ma r guerite June

D r eux, n ée N aidoo, of No. 8 0 C ol om berie, St. Helier for t he s um of #52,500;

pl u s the payment of all legal f ee s .

Matters lodged

The following subjects were lodged au Greffe'' -

1 . Draft Sea-Fisheries (Miscellaneous P r ovi sions) (Amendment No. 4)

( J e rsey) Regulations 199 .

P .97/ 91.

P r es ented by the Agriculture and

F i sher ies Committee.

2 . Draft Tourism (Amendment No. 6) ( Je r sey) Law 199 . P.98/91.

P r es ented by the Tourism

C om mittee.

3 . Criminal injuries compensation s che me: amendment. P.99/91.

P r es ented by the Defence

C om mittee.

4 . Golf course, Les Creux, St. B r el ade. P.101/91.

P r es ented by the Finance and E conom ics Committee.

Social Security contributions. Question and answer

Senator Corrie Stein asked Deputy Terence Augustine Le Sueur , President of the Social Security Committee, the following question -

On what grounds are States' Members r equired to pay full self-employed

s ocial security contributions on their

S tates' allowance?''

The President of the Social Security Committee replied as follows -

As a former member of the Social

S ecurity Committee the Senator is no

doubt aware of the basic rules of the

p resent social security contribution

s cheme. However for the benefit of the

H ouse as a whole may I remind Members

o f a few key elements.

A ll persons living in the Island

b etween the ages of 15 and 65 (or 60 i n certain cases) are liable to pay

s ocial security contributions, either

i n Class 1 or in Class 2. Broadly

s peaking, Class 1 relates to employed p ersons, while Class 2 relates to the

s elf-employed or non-employed.

T he only persons between those ages, r esident in the Island, who are NOT

l iable to pay social security

c ontributions are -

( a) married women who opt out;

( b) widows in receipt of widow's bene fit;

( c) persons undergoing full-time

educ ation or training;

( d) persons undergoing imprisonment;

( e) temporary residents in the Island

f or l ess than six months not

enga ged in employment under Class 1;

( f) persons with a small income exem ption;

( g) persons in receipt of unemployment cr edi ts or certain other benefits;

( h) persons over the age of 60 not in gai nf ul employment who elect to opt out.

A ccordingly, in answer to the

S enator's question, all States'

M embers under the age of 60 are

o bliged to pay social security

c ontributions, just as the rest of the

p opulation, and equally they are

e ntitled to share in the benefits

t hose contributions provide, unless

t hey fall into one of the above eight

c ategories. Whether or not those who

r eceive the States' allowance pay FULL s ocial security contributions on that

a llowance will depend on the

p articular circumstances of each

M ember.

U nder the terms of the Social Security S cheme it is clear that Class 1

c ontributions are payable by

e mployees, i.e. those working for an

e mployer under a master/servant

r elationship. All other persons are

l iable under Class 2, and I am

c onfident, as well as being supported b y legal opinion, that States' Members a re not employees by virtue of their

o ffice, and in the absence of any

o ther employer they therefore fall

u nder the Class 2 classification.

T hose Members who are employees

( earning over the current minimum of # 307 a month) but who also claim part

o r all the States' allowance are NOT

l iable to pay ANY social security

c ontribution on that allowance.

M embers may be aware that all persons, i ncluding States' Members, liable to

p ay Class 2 contributions may elect to h ave their contributions reduced from

t he full standard rate, in relation to t heir annual income as assessed by the C omptroller of Income Tax. These are c ommonly termed earnings related

c ontributions'. (Whilst accepting that

t he tax information may be somewhat

h istoric, in these inflationary times

t his normally works to the benefit of

t he contributor). The States'

a llowance is regarded as part of a

M ember's income by the Comptroller of I ncome Tax, and hence also for Social S ecurity.

I t therefore depends on the individual

c ircumstances of each Member whether

o r not they may be eligible for

r educed rate contributions, but in the

a bsence of any claim then clearly the M ember is liable at the full rate.

T hese facts were known when the

o riginal income support scheme was

i ntroduced, and the level of support

w as presumably intended to reflect

t his situation, although when that

s cheme was introduced it was based on t he principle that a Member could

s pend up to half his week in gainful

e mployment.

M embers who have read the report of

t he sub-committee looking into the

p ayment of an honorarium to States'

M embers will be aware of the

r ecommendation in that report that any

s uch honorarium or allowance be

c alculated in the knowledge that from

s uch payment Members may have to meet t heir own responsibilities for social

s ecurity contributions, extra health

c over, secondary pension scheme and

a ny other such costs and, for these

r easons (amongst others), recommended

t hat any honorarium or allowance be

s et at a sufficient level to reflect

t hese costs.

I hope, and I am sure this hope is

s hared by most Members, that the House C ommittee will be bringing forward in

t he near future a report and

p roposition on the subject of Members'

i ncome in order that we may improve on t he present anachronistic scheme.''

Social Security registration cards. Questions and answers

Senator Terence John Le Main asked Deputy Michael Adam Wavell, President of the Defence Committee the following questions -

1. Will the President confirm

t hat t he debate on 14th

N ovem ber 1989 on Projet 43/89 r e gar di ng photographs on

s oc ia l security registration

ca rds , cam e to an end when, in hi s t hen c apacity as Vice-

P r e si dent of the Defence

C om m ittee, he gave an

as sur ance that the Committee

w oul d unde rtake to review the

w hol e que stion of photographs on S o cial Security cards?

2 . With regard to the answer given by t he P resident, when can the States

r ec ei ve a full report on this

i ss ue f rom his Committee?''

The President of the Defence Committee replied as follows -

1. Yes. Whilst accepting that a

f u ll r e view has not been

ca rr i ed out, nevertheless, I

hav e t aken the opportunity to di scus s the issue of identity

ca rds w ith the chief officers of S oci al Security,

I m m ig ration, the States of

J e rs e y P olice and the Policy and R esources Committee.

T oda y, I am happy if it is the S t at e s ' wish to state the

con s ens us of their views and t o gi v e you the advice they

hav e gi ven me to date.

2 . We are at present in a very fluid s tat e, it needs very, very

deep consideration. There are

cons titutional matters involved in i t. I t is not just the matter that

t he S enator is asking for, it is

not just photographs on Social

S ecur ity cards, he effectively is

as ki ng for identity cards and for

t he I sland to introduce a system

of i dentification and that has

m any r amifications and that needs s er i ous in-depth discussions.''

Gorey Day Care Centre, Field 77, Le Chemin des Maltières, Grouville : approval of drawings

THE STATES, adopting a proposition of the Public Health Committee -

( a) approved Drawings Nos. 1740/8A, 9, 10, 12, and 14A showing the

cons truction of a day care centre

  f or elderly people on Field 77, Le

C hem in des Maltières, Gorey;

( b) authorized the Greffier of the

S t a tes to sign the said Drawings on be half of the States.

Category A housing developme transfer of administration

THE STATES, adopting a proposition of the Island Development Committee -

a pproved the transfer of

a dministration, to the Housing

C ommittee, of the properties, listed i n the attached schedule, acquired s pecifically to provide Category A h ousing accommodation.

S c hedul e

N o r man's Timber Yard, Pier Road, S t . H elier

3 and 7 Wesley Street, St. Helier 36½ Belmont Road, St. Helier

T he H alt, St. Clement

Mal Assis Mill, Grands Vaux, St. H e l ier

6, 11, 1 2 and 13 Lempriere

S t reet , St. Helier

57 G reat Union Road, St. Helier

E as tleigh, Plat Douet Road, St.

S avi our

P i e rson Court, St. Helier

2, 2a and 2b St. Clement 's Road,

S t . H elier

Wes tview, Plat Douet Road, St.

S avi our

E di nburgh Guest House, St. Helier 24, 26, 28 and 28½ Albert Street, S t . H elier

3 C learview Street, St. Helier

C l ev eland Garages, David Place, S t . H elier

B eau V allon Hotel, St. Helier

C .T .V. site, St. Helier

R i tz H otel, St. Helier

F i e lds 769/770, Longueville, St.

S avi our

F i e ld 1367, La Route du Petit

C los, St. Helier

F i e ld 355A, Grouville F i e lds 553/554, La Moye, St. B r el ade

F i e lds 14/14A, St. Clement 25 - 27 St. James Street, St.

H e l ier.

Amendment (No. 13) of the Standing Orders of the States of Jersey. P.84/91

THE STATES, in pursuance of Articles

16 and 27 of the States of Jersey Law 1966 as amended, made a Standing Order entitled Amendment (No. 13) of the Standing Orders of the States of Jersey.

Continental Hotel and adjoining properties, St. Helier : purchase. P.87/91

THE STATES, adopting a proposition of the Island Development Committee -

( a) agreed to purchase on behalf of

t he publ ic from The Continental

H o t el Limited the property known as t he Continental Hotel, St.

S avi our's Road, No. 22, St.

S avi our's Road, a passageway nine f ee t in width, Nos. 1, 2, 3, 4 and

5 B rook Cottages, garage (formerly a s t able), Nos. 8, 10, 10½, 12,

14, 14A , 14B, 18, 18A and 20 Ann S t reet , and their appurtenances,

i n t he Parish of St. Helier , shown

on D rawing No. 288/1, for the sum of # 2,600,000, with each party

bei ng r esponsible for the payment

of i ts own legal fees, the

pur chase to be subject to a

s at i sfactory ground survey being

under taken to confirm the site's

s ui t ability for the construction

of C  ategory A housing;

( b) authorized the payment or

di schar ge of the expenses to be

i nc ur red in connexion with the

acqu isition of the said land from

t he I sland Development Committee's vot e of credit Acquisition of

L and - Major Reserve'' (Vote No.

C 0904 );

( c) authorized the Attorney General and t he Greffier of the States to

pas s, on behalf of the public, any cont racts which it is found

nece ssary to pass in connexion w i t h the said properties and any i nt er est therein.

Act establishing a scheme to subsidise certain dental care. P.90/91

THE STATES, adopting a proposition

of the Social Security Committee approved an Act establishing a scheme to subsidise certain dental care.

Jersey Dental Scheme Board of Management: appointment of chairman. P.91/91

THE STATES, adopting a proposition

of the Social Security Committee, in accordance with Article 5 of the Act of the States of 18th June 1991, establishing a scheme to subsidise certain dental care, appointed Mr. James Shaw as chairman of the Board of Management.

Dental care for priority groups. P.96/91

THE STATES, having adopted an amendment of Senator Corrie Stein that

after the words and single parents''

there should be inserted and persons on

low incomes'', adopted the proposition of Senator Richard Joseph Shenton, as amended, and instructed the Social Security Committee, as a matter of urgency, to

present to the States proposals for a

further scheme to subsidise dental care and making provision for priority'' groups including, in particular, pregnant and

nursing mothers, the elderly and single parents and persons on low incomes.

Amendment (No. 9) of Standing Orders Relating to Certain Transactions in Land. P.92/91

THE STATES, in pursuance of Article 27 of the States of Jersey Law 1966, as amended, made a Standing Order entitled Amendment (No. 9) of Standing Orders Relating to Certain Transactions in Land.

Draft Merchant Shipping (Deck Officers) (Jersey) Regulations 199 .

P.93/91

Draft Merchant Shipping (Marine Engineer Officers and Marine Engine Operators) (Jersey) Regulations 199 . P.94/91

THE STATES acceded to the request of

the President of the Harbours and Airport Committee that the draft Merchant Shipping (Deck Officers) (Jersey) Regulations 199 (lodged on 4th June 1991) and the draft Merchant Shipping (Marine Engineer Operators and Marine Engine Operators) (Jersey) Regulations 199 (lodged on 4th June 1991) be deferred from the present Sitting to a later date.

27 Hill Street/16 Queen Street, St. Helier : supplementary vote of credit. P.70/91

THE STATES, adopting a proposition

of the Finance and Economics Committee acceded to the request for the following supplementary vote of credit to be voted out of the general reserve -

P ublic Services Committee

2 082 - Public buildings 27 Hill

S treet/

1 6 Queen Street #111,0 00.

THE STATES rose at 11.25 a.m.

R .S . G R A Y G r e f fi er of the States.