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STATES MINUTES 2 4 t h O ct ober 1995
T HE STATES assembled on Tuesday, 24th October 1995 at 9.30 a.m. under
t h e Presidency of the Bailiff ,
P hilip Martin Bailhache , Esquire
_ _ _ _ _ _ ______
His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor,
General Sir Michael Wilkes, K.C.B., C.B.E, w a s p r e sent.
_ _ _ _ _ _ ______
All Members were present with the exception of -
S enator Terence John Le Main - out of the I sland
R obert Lester Le Brocq, Connétable of St. H elier - out of the Island
J ohn Nicolle Le Fondré, Deputy of St.
L awrence - out of the Island.
_ _ _ _ _ _ ______
P r a y e rs
_ _ _ _ ________
Subordinate legislation tabled
The following enactments were laid before the States, namely -
1 . Companies (General Provisions)
( A m endment No. 3) (Jersey) Order 1995. R & O 8868.
2 . Road Traffic (Public Parking
P l a ces) (Amendment No. 31) (Jersey) O rd er 1995. R & O 8869.
3 . Weights and Measures (Testing
F e e s) (Jersey) Order 1995. R & O 8870.
Matter presented
The following matter was presented to the States -
R egulation of Undertakings and
D evelopment: six-monthly manpower returns. R .C.25/95.
P resented by the Finance
a nd Economics Committee.
The States noted that the following matter had been presented on 17th October 1995 -
F ield 116, Le Clos de Maitland, St.
C lement: construction of dwelling in Green Z one (P.109/95 Revised) - report. P.145/95. P resented by the Planning and
E n v ironment Committee.
Matters noted - land transactions
THE STATES noted an Act of the Finance and Economics Committee dated 16th October 1995, showing that, in pursuance of Standing Orders relating to certain transactions in land, the Committee had approved -
( a) as recommended by the Public Services
C o m mittee, the acquisition from Mr.
R o d ney Denis Gilbert and Mrs. Betty May G il bert, née Gavey, of 1,226 square
f e et of land in Field No. 1250,
T r in ity, for a consideration of £1,266,
p l u s an additional £1,774 in respect of
r e n t for the working area and access
t ra c k, with the Committee being
r e sp onsible for the payment of all
r e as onable legal fees involved in the
t ra n saction and for the cost of the
a c c ommodation works required;
( b) as recommended by the Planning and
E n v ironment Committee (formerly the I s la nd Development Committee), the
r e n ewal of the lease of Fields
N o s. 1609, 1610 and 1459, St. Ouen, to M r . Brian Herbert Langlois and Mrs.
P e a rl Doreen Langlois, née Luce , for a p e r iod of nine years from 29th
S e p tember 1991 at an annual rent of
£2 2 0, subject to triennial reviews (the
C o m mittee rescinded its Act No. 2(c) of 1 9 t h August 1991);
( c) as recommended by the Public Services C o m mittee, the sale to Mr. Stephen May a n d Mrs. Carolyn Wendy May, née
S k i nner, of 70.25 square feet of land
a t C raigeau, Mont Sohier, St. Brelade,
i n r espect of a patio which encroached
o n public land and a barbecue sited
c o m pletely on public land, for the sum
o f £ 500, with Mr. and Mrs. May being
r e sp onsible for all legal costs, the
r e m oval of the barbecue site and steps
l e ad ing to it and the costs
o f r einstating the land to its original
c o n dition.
Matters lodged
The following subjects were lodged au Greffe'' -
1 . Draft Adoption (Amendment No. 3)
( Je rsey) Law 1995 (Appointed Day) Act 1 9 9 5. P.146/95.
P r e sented by the Education
C o m mittee.
2 Draft Insurance Business
( J er sey) Law 199 - P.147/95. P r e sented by the Finance and E c o nomics Committee.
3 . Draft Policing of Parks
( A m endment No. 11) (Jersey) Regulations 1 9 9 5. P.148/95.
P r e sented by the Public Services
C o m mittee.
Arrangement of public business for the next meeting on 7th November 1995
THE STATES confirmed that the following subjects lodged au Greffe'' would be considered at the
next meeting on 7th November 1995 -
1 . Draft States of Jersey (Amendment No. 5 ) L aw 199 - P.88/95.
L o d ged: 11th July 1995
P o l icy and Resources
C o m mittee.
2 . Draft Prevention of Terrorism (Jersey) L a w 199 - P.128/95.
L o d ged: 26th September 1995
D ef ence Committee.
3 . Draft Reservoirs (Jersey) Law 199 - P . 1 42/95.
L o dged: 10th October 1995
P u b lic Services Committee.
4 . Draft F.B. Playing Fields (Construction a n d Use of Sports Hall ) (Jersey) Law
1 9 9 - P.144/95.
L o d ged: 10th October 1995
S p o rt, Leisure and Recreation
C o m mittee.
5 . Draft Adoption (Amendment No. 3)
( J er sey) Law 1995 (Appointed Day) Act 1 9 9 5. P.146/95.
L o d ged: 24th October 1995
E d u cation Committee.
6 . Draft Policing of Parks (Amendment N o . 11) (Jersey) Regulations 1995.
P . 1 48/95.
L o d ged: 24th October 1995
P u b lic Services
C o m mittee.
Library facilities in the west of the Island - questions and answers (Tape No. 309)
Senator Richard Joseph Shenton asked Deputy Evelyn Mabel Pullin of St. Saviour, President of the Education Committee, the following questions -
1. W ould the President inform the S ta t e s of the Committee's policy fo r l i b rary facilities in the west
o f th e Island?
2 . Would the President acknowledge that t h e library at Les Quennevais School
n e e ds to be refurbished in order that
s tu d ents and members of the public can e n jo y the services provided?''
The President of the Education Committee replied as follows -
1. I t is intended that the
co m m itments given by the previous E d u c a tion Committee regarding the L e s Q u ennevais Branch Library,
w il l be honoured and that this p u b li c service in the West of the Is l an d will continue.
2 . The Branch Library is being refurbished t o a similar high standard to that
a c h ieved in the other areas already
c o m pleted at Les Quennevais School.''
Cyclists and provisional'' plates for motor vehicles - questions and answers (Tape No. 309)
Deputy Shirley Margaret Baudains of St. Helier asked Deputy Michael Adam Wavell of St. Saviour, President of the Defence Committee, the
following questions -
1. I s the President aware that
co n c e r n has been expressed about
so m e c yclists abusing pedestrian
ar e a s a nd ignoring traffic signs
th e r e b y causing danger to
p ed e s t rians and will the President
in f o rm members when the Committee is p r o p osing to introduce a cycle
re g i st r ation scheme?
2 . Will the President inform members
w h ether the Committee intends to amend t h e Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences)
( J er sey) Order 1993, to require that
p e r sons who pass a driving test for a
m o tor vehicle should display
p r ovisional'' plates on the front and
r e ar of the vehicle for a period of
t w e lve months, as is currently required
f o r motor cyclists?''
The President of the Defence Committee replied as follows -
1. T he Committee is not convinced
th a t t h e introduction of a cycle
re g i st r ation scheme will be of any
re a l b e nefit in attempting to
im p ro v e the riding habits and
g en e r a l behaviour of cyclists.
H o w e v er, the Committee understands th a t i t is likely to receive a
fu r th e r representation on this
su b j e c t.
T h e introduction of CCTV in St. Helier w il l certainly help in dealing with any i n ci dents in the precinct and town
s tr e ets. I have requested the Police to
t a ke a more active rôle in respect of
i rr e sponsible and dangerous cycling and I f e el sure that the Honorary Police
w il l also play an important part in
c y c le enforcement in their dealings
w it h any reported offences.
I f a compulsory scheme was introduced t h er e are a number of important issues t h at need to be addressed: one being,
a r e there sufficient resources to
p o lice the scheme? The requirement for p o l icing insurance discs and motor
v e h icle transfers is already causing a
s tr a in on Police resources and to add
a d d itional enforcement duties could
m ea n a reduction in Police time in
o t h er important areas.
A n other question requiring a difficult
d e c ision is: will notification of
t ra n sfer of ownership be compulsory? If s o w hat penalties will be imposed on,
s a y , a 14 year old child who fails to
n o t ify transfer of ownership of their
b i k e? There used to be many motorists w h o did not inform the DVS that their
v e h icle had been transferred to another
o w ner and this was only controlled when t h e Courts acted strongly with fines up
t o £ 500. Does the Deputy think that a
c y c list will be more inclined to notify
t h e Registration Authority of a change
o f o wnership than the owner of a car or
t ru ck? A registration scheme is useless
u n l ess the register is kept up to date.
T h e re are also associated practical
p o l icy questions which will need to be a n s wered before any workable scheme c o u ld emerge such as, who will be
r e sp onsible for registration, owner or s e ll er or in the case of juveniles,
p a r ents?
T h e Committee believes that the
b u r eaucracy, manpower and financial
i m p lications involved in such a scheme w o uld not effectively solve the
p r o blem.
2 . The probationary plate scheme in
N o rthern Ireland and our own motor
c y c le probationary P plate have not
s h o wn any significant improvement in
r o a d safety. The general behaviour and
d r iv ing standard of newly qualified
d r iv ers has not given the Police or the
D ri ver and Vehicle Standards Department a n y cause to recommend any extension to t h e scheme. Consequently, whilst the
C o m mittee intends to continue the P
p l at e scheme for motor cyclists, who
a r e perhaps somewhat vulnerable, there
i s n o evidence to suggest that the
s c h eme should be extended to drivers of
o t h er vehicle categories.
F u r thermore, a motorcycle is generally r id d en by the one person to whom P
r e la tes and on which the test is taken, a f te r which the examiner affixes the
p r o bationary P. A person driving a car p a s ses his test generally in a school
c a r (not a private vehicle to which the
o w ner could affix the P) and he may
t h en drive any vehicle of that class,
t h e family car, work vehicle, friend's v e h icle, etc., all of which have to
d i sp lay the probationary plate.
W h ilst there have been similar calls
f o r the introduction of P plates in the
U n ited Kingdom where speeds are much h i g her, the Department of Transport has r e ce ntly stated that it is not
n e c essary to introduce a probationary P p l at e scheme.''
Working Party on Need: disbandment - statement
The President of the Finance and Economics Committee made a statement in the following terms -
The Working Party on Need at its meeting 2 4th July 1995 agreed that arrangements
s hould be made for it to be formally
d isbanded once the States had agreed the
c hange of name of the Public Health
C ommittee to the Health and Social Services C ommittee, and the transfer of functions to
t hat Committee enabling the proposals for
t he reorganisation of Health and Social
S ervices provision in Jersey adopted by the S tates on 28th February 1995 to be brought f ully into effect. At their meeting on 26th
S eptember 1995 the States adopted the
P ublic Health Committee (Change of Name) ( Jersey) Act 1995 and the Transfer of
F unctions (Health and Social Services
C ommittee) (Jersey) Act 1995. Therefore I w ish formally to inform the House of the d ecision to disband the Working Party.
I n announcing the disbandment of the
W orking Party, and in handing the reins
o ver to the Health and Social Services
C ommittee and the Employment and Social S ecurity Committee, I should like to take
t his opportunity of thanking all those have
c ontributed to the work of the Working
P arty over the years. The Working Party was f ormed in 1972 in response to a concern at
t hat time at the level of welfare benefit
a nd the variation in payments from parish
t o parish. It was also recognised that
t here was a requirement for more effective
c o-ordination between the various agencies
i nvolved with those in need. Over the years I believe the Working Party, working
c losely with the parishes, and the Finance
a nd Economics, Employment and Social
S ecurity, Public Health and Housing
C ommittees, has achieved much of what it w as set up to do and the new structure
t herefore has a firm base from which to
w ork.''
Supplementary and additional votes of credit
THE STATES considered an Act of the Finance and Economics Committee dated 2nd October 1995, presenting Acts of the undermentioned Committees and, acceding to the requests contained therein, granted to the said Committees supplementary and additional(A) votes of credit out of the general reserve as follows -
£ Finance and Economics Committee
Non-departmental expenditure
0 603 Court and case costs,
fe e s a nd expenses 3 5 0 ,000
Defence Committee
Miscellaneous
1 020 Criminal Injuries
C o m p ensation Scheme 9 8 ,500
Education Committee
3 103 Structural maintenance 300,000
Employment and Social Security Committee
States Grants to Insurance Funds 4 801 States Contribution -
S o c ia l Security 1,250,000
Benefits of a non-contributory
nature
4 813 Dental Benefit Scheme 9 7 ,5 0 0
T o ta l request 1 , 3 4 7 ,500
CAPITAL VOTES OF CREDIT Defence Committee
Fire Service
C 0170 Refurbishment/extension to tr a ining facilities 18,300
Public Services Committee
C 0385 West of Albert Pier
R e c la mation site 632,200
C 2613 Ash Containment areas -
L a C ollette 5 4 9,000 ( A)
T otal request 1 , 1 8 1 ,200 Housing Committee
C 1103 Building, purchase and
re h a b ilitation of
d w e ll ings 9 3 , 0 0 0
Sport, Leisure and Recreation Committee
C 1240 Les Quennevais Pool 1 4 0,000 C 1245 Springfield 1 , 5 2 2 ,7 00
T o ta l request 1 , 6 6 2 ,700 The total requests granted for the
October Supply Day amounted to £5,051,200. States Committees' inflation and vote transfers
THE STATES noted decisions taken by the Finance and Economics Committee in accordance with sub- paragraphs (a) and (b) of Paragraph (2) of
Article 18 of the Public Finances
(Administration) (Jersey) Law 1967, as amended -
CAPITAL EXPENDITURE £
1995 inflation requests 2 , 2 91,000
REVENUE EXPENDITURE £
1995 vote transfers 2 , 6 2 6 ,130
CAPITAL EXPENDITURE £
1995 vote transfers 4 3 5 ,8 5 6.
Les Ruisseaux, La Rue de la Vallée, Trinity : sale of share -
THE STATES, adopting a proposition of the Finance and Economics Committee -
( a) agreed the sale to Mr. Michael Edmund P o w ell and Mrs. Jane Elizabeth Powell, n é e Le Brocq, of the one quarter share
i n t he immovable estate consisting of a
d w elling house known as Les Ruisseaux, L a Rue de la Vallée, Trinity ,
b e q ueathed to the public of the Island
b y the late Mrs. Nellie Winifred Miriam O 'M eara, née Simmonds, as set out in
t h e Committee's report, dated 19th
O ct ober 1995;
( b) authorised the Attorney General and the G re ffier of the States to pass the
n e c essary contract;
( c) authorised the Treasurer of the States t o r eceive the amount connected with t h e above transaction.
Simultaneous voting/enhanced sound systems in States Chamber - P.115/95
THE STATES rejected a proposition of the House
Committee -
( a) to approve the introduction of a system
o f s imultaneous electronic voting to
r e p lace voting by appel nominal;
( b) to authorise the acquisition and
i n st allation of a combined electronic
v o t ing and replacement sound
r e in forcement system at a combined cost
o f £ 33,503;
( c) to charge the House Committee to
p r e pare the necessary amendments of the S t a nding Orders of the States of Jersey
t o p rovide for simultaneous electronic
v o t ing in place of voting by appel
n o m inal.
Members present voted as follows -
P o u r'' (16) Senators
Q uérée, Syvret.
Connétable s
S t. Lawrence, St. Ouen.
Deputies
S . Baudains(H), Carter(H), Johns(H),
D uhamel(S), Matthews(B), Dorey(H),
L ayzell(B), Breckon(S), Grouville , Huet(H), S t. Martin, St. John.
C o n tre'' (33)
Senators
S henton, Jeune , Horsfall, Rothwell, Le
M aistre, Stein, Chinn, Bailhache , Tomes.
Connétable s
S t. Clement, St. Mary, St. Brelade , St. P eter, Grouville , St. Saviour , St.
M artin, St. John.
Deputies
R umboll(H), Wavell(S), Norman(C), St.
P eter, H. Baudains(C), Le Sueur(H), St.
O uen, Coutanche(L), Huelin(B), St. Mary, L e Geyt(S), Walker (H), Crespel(H),
P ullin(S), Trinity , Routier(H).
Field 116, Le Clos de Maitland, St. Clement: construction of dwelling in Green Zone - P.109/95 (Revised) and P.145/95
THE STATES rejected a proposition of Senator Patricia Ann Bailhache -
( a) to request the Planning and Environment C o m mittee to reconsider its previous
d e c ision and to grant permission for
t h e construction of one dwelling in
F i e ld 116, Le Clos de Maitland, St.
C l e ment, shown hatched on drawing
N o . 6726-Q, which is located in the
G re en Zone;
( b) to authorise the Greffier of the States t o s ign the said drawing on behalf of
t h e States.
Jersey Financial Services Commission: establishment - P.132/95
THE STATES, adopting a proposition of the Finance and Economics Committee -
( a) approved in principle the
e s ta blishment, by law, of a Jersey
F i n ancial Services Commission, with c o r porate status, to be charged with
r e sp onsibility for the supervision and d e v elopment of the finance industry w it hin the Island;
( b) charged the Finance and Economics
C o m mittee to bring forward to the
S t a tes the necessary legislation to
e s ta blish the Commission and define its p o w ers and responsibilities.
Air Transport Permits (Jersey) Regulations 1995 - P.137/95
THE STATES, by virtue and in exercise of the powers conferred upon them by the Order in Council of the twenty-eighth day of March 1771, made Regulations entitled the Air Transport Permits (Jersey) Regulations 1995.
Elizabeth Harbour: lease of accommodation - P.138/95
THE STATES, adopting a proposition of the Harbours and Airport Committee -
( a) approved the lease to Channel Express
( C . I.) Limited of the south-eastern
c o r ner of the Phase I Warehouse
( L e tting No. E25), Elizabeth Harbour, S t . Helier, measuring 4,810 square
f e et , for a period of three years,
c o m mencing 1st July 1995, at an annual r e n t of £29,504.54 (representing a rate
o f £ 6.134 a square foot), subject to
a n n ual review on 1st July 1996 and 1st J u ly 1997;
( b) authorised the Greffier of the States t o s ign the necessary lease;
( c) authorised the Treasurer of the States t o r eceive the rent as it becomes due.
La Collette fuel storage: fire protection facilities - P.139/95
THE STATES commenced consideration of a proposition of the Public Services Committee regarding the proposed fire protection facilities at the site leased to the Jersey Gas Company Limited at La Collette, St. Helier .
After discussion Deputy Leonard Norman of St. Clement proposed that the States move to the consideration of the next item on the order paper, which proposition was carried, more than 20 members voting in support thereof.
Deputy Alan Breckon of St. Saviour declared an interest in the matter and withdrew from the Chamber prior to the debate.
1 to 17 St. Paul's Gate, St. Helier: sale to Jersey Homes Trust - P.140/95.
THE STATES, adopting a proposition of the Housing Committee -
( a) approved the sale to the Jersey Homes T r u st of the freehold of 1 to 17 St.
P a u l's Gate, Dumaresq Street, St.
H el ier, comprising 17 two-bedroom
f la t s, with ancillary stores and car
p a r king, for the sum of £1,496,000,
w it h each party being responsible for
t h e payment of its own legal costs;
( b) authorised the Attorney General and the G re ffier of the States to pass the
n e c essary contracts on behalf of the
p u b lic;
( c) authorised the Treasurer of the States t o r eceive the amount connected with t h e above transaction.
European Communities Legislation (Implementation) (Jersey) Law 199 - P.143/95
THE STATES, subject to the sanction of Her Most Excellent Majesty in Council, adopted a Law entitled the European Communities Legislation (Implementation) (Jersey) Law 199 .
La Collette fuel storage: fire protection facilities - P.139/95
THE STATES acceded to the request of the President of the Public Services Committee that the proposition regarding fire protection facilities at La Collette, St. Helier (lodged
au Greffe'' on 10th October 1995) be considered at the next meeting on 7th November 1995.
THE STATES rose at 1.20 p.m.
G .H .C . C O P P O C K G re f fi e r o f the States.