States Minutes 27th February 1996

STATES MINUTES 2 7 th F e bruary 1996   P ri c e : £ 1 . 2 5

T HE STATES assembled on Tuesday,  27th February 1996 at 9.30 a.m. under t h e Presidency of the Bailiff ,

P hilip Martin Bailhache , Esquire

_ _ _ _ _ _ ______

All members were present with the exception of -

S enator Corrie Stein - ill

S enator Antony Beresford Chinn - out of the I sland

R obin Ernest Richard Rumboll, Deputy of St. H elier - out of the Island

D erek Ryder Maltwood, Deputy of St. Mary -

o ut of the Island

J ohn Nicolle Le Fondré, Deputy of St.

L awrence - ill

M argaret Anne Le Geyt, Deputy of St.

S aviour - out of the Island

F rederick John Hill, Deputy of St. Martin -

o ut of the Island.

_ _ _ _ _ _ ______

P r a y e rs

_ _ _ _ _ _ ______

Connétable of St. Clement - welcome

The Bailiff , on behalf of members of the States, welcomed Leonard René Hamel, Connétable of St. Clement , on his return to the States after his

recent illness.

Subordinate legislation tabled

The following enactment was laid before the States, namely -

T elecommunications

( Telephones) (Amendment No. 26) (Jersey)

 O rder 1996. R & O 8910. Matters presented

The following matters were presented to the States -

 1 .  Housing: States rental waiting

l is t and development programme as at

1 s t January 1996 - R.C.3/96.

P r e sented by the Housing

C o m mittee.

T H  E STATES ordered that the said report b e p rinted and distributed.

 2 .  Dwelling Houses Loan Fund:

a c c ounts for 1995 - R.C.4/96.

P r e sented by the Housing

C o m mittee.

T H  E STATES ordered that the said report b e p rinted and distributed.

 3 .  Agricultural loans: report for

1 9 9 5 - R.C.5/96.

P r e sented by the Agriculture and

F i s heries Committee.

T H  E STATES ordered that the said report b e p rinted and distributed.

Matters lodged

The following matters were lodged au Greffe'' -

 1 .  Draft Housing (Amendment No. 8)

( J er sey) Law 1996 (Appointed Day) Act 1 9 9  - P.32/96.

P r e sented by the Housing

C o m mittee.

 2 .  Draft Housing (General

P r o visions) (Amendment No. 12) (Jersey) R e g ulations 199  - P.33/96.

P r e sented by the Housing

C o m mittee.

 3 .  Draft Matrimonial Causes

( A m endment No. 9) (Jersey) Law 199 - P . 3 4/96.

P r e sented by the Legislation

C o m mittee.

 4 .  Draft Sea-Fisheries (Fishing

N  et s) (Amendment No. 5) (Jersey)

R e g ulations 199  - P.35/96.

P r e sented by the Agriculture and F i s heries Committee.

 5 .  Establishment of a casino in

J e rs ey - P.36/96.

P r e sented by Senator

R . J .Shenton and referred to the

G am bling Control Committee for a r e p ort.

 6 .  Springfield Hall , St. Helier :

d e m olition and reconstruction - P . 3 7/96.

P r e sented by the Sport, Leisure a n d Recreation Committee.

Arrangement of public business for the present meeting

THE STATES confirmed that the following matter lodged au Greffe'' would be considered at the present meeting -

D raft Borrowing (Control) (Amendment N o. 3) (Jersey) Law 199  - P.27/96.

L odged: 13th February 1996.

F inance and Economics Committee.

Arrangement of public business for the next meeting on 12th March 1996

THE STATES confirmed that the following matters lodged au Greffe'' would be considered at the meeting on 12th March 1996 -

D raft Public Finances

( Administration) (Amendment No. 8) (Jersey) L aw 199  - P.20/96.

L odged: 30th January 1996.

F inance and Economics Committee.

D raft Housing (Amendment No. 8)

( Jersey) Law 1996 (Appointed Day) Act 1 99  - P.32/96.

L odged: 27th February 1996.

H ousing Committee.

D raft Housing (General Provisions)

( Amendment No. 12) (Jersey) Regulations 1 99  - P.33/96.

L odged: 27th February 1996.

H ousing Committee.

D raft Sea-Fisheries (Fishing Nets)

( Amendment No. 5) (Jersey) Regulations 1 99  - P.35/96.

L odged: 27th February 1996.

A griculture and Fisheries Committee.

S pringfield Hall , St. Helier :

d emolition and reconstruction - P.37/96. L odged: 27th February 1996.

S port, Leisure and Recreation

C ommittee.

Relief from taxation - questions and answers (Tape No. 327)

Deputy Jacqueline Jeannette Huet of St. Helier asked Senator Pierre François Horsfall, President of the Finance and Economics Committee, the following questions -

1.  W ould the President confirm that co m  m  ercial organisations, such as b an k s and finance companies are ab l e t o obtain relief from

ta x a ti o n in respect of expenditure in c u r re d in relation to the

p ro v i s ion of services at

p ro p e r ties that they own and rent, su c h a s the employment of

ca r e ta k ers, gardeners, window

cl e a n e rs and other domestic

em  p l o yees?

 2 .  Would the President advise members of t h e amount of relief claimed by such

c o m mercial organisations for the years

1 9 9 1, 1992, 1993 and 1994?

 3 .  In the interest of greater equity in

t a xa tion, would the Finance and

E c o nomics Committee be prepared to a l lo w similar reliefs for private

i n d ividuals who require the support of d o m estic or other assistance in order

t o a ssist them to engage in paid

e m p loyment?''

The President of the Finance and Economics Committee replied as follows -

1.  T he Income Tax Law allows the

d ed u c t ion of certain expenses in ar r iv i n g at the taxable trading

p ro f it s of a company. In broad

te r m s , the expenses must be laid

o u t fo r the purposes of the trade.

I n J ersey, because of the strict

h o u sing regulations, many large

e m p loyers provide accommodation for t h ei r employees. Those large employers a r e not limited solely to the finance

s e c tor. For example, it is common for

h o t els to provide accommodation for

t h ei r staff.

I c a n confirm that the expenses of

m  ai ntaining accommodation that is being p r o vided for staff are allowable

d e d uctions from trading profits and in

t h at context the items that Deputy Huet

r e fe rs to would be so allowable.

 2 .  These figures are not available. The f in a ncial accounts sent to the

C o m ptroller of Income Tax are not p r e sented in sufficient detail to

e n a ble this type of information to be e x tr acted,

 3 .  The Income Tax Law permits the

d e d uction of certain expenses from

e m p loyment income but specifically

p r o hibits the deduction of sums

e x p ended for domestic or private

p u r poses. If the Law were to be changed i n t he way the Deputy requests, there

w  o uld be substantial problems in

d e f ining exactly what was allowable for t a x purposes. In practice the operation

o f s uch a provision in the Law would,

i n t he opinion of the Comptroller, be

v e r y difficult.

A f urther point is that companies are

n o t entitled to any personal allowances w  h ereas individuals do enjoy that

b e n efit. The policy of successive

F i n ance and Economics Committees has b e e n to raise tax thresholds

s u b stantially and in that connexion the 1 9 9 4 report of the Taxation Working

G ro up - Equity in the Tax System' -

s a id -

T h e G roup supports that policy b ec a u s e of its effectiveness in

ta k i n g the lower paid out of tax. S e tt in g exemption limits is

p re f e ra ble to trying to determine

th e ex a ct expenditure of

in d i v id uals. Reducing, or

ex t i n g uishing, the tax burden of

m i d d le /low income earners has left th e m w ith more of their income to sp e n d as they wish or need.'

F o r these reasons my Committee does not  p ropose to introduce amendments to the

 I ncome Tax Law of the type proposed by

 D eputy Huet.''

Poverty in the Island - questions and answers (Tape No. 327)

Senator Stuart Syvret presented questions about poverty in the Island to which the President of

the Employment and Social Security Committee had prepared a written reply. Because of the

detailed nature of the reply the States decided

that the questions and answers should be

deferred to the next meeting.

Purchase of land for educational purposes - statement

Deputy Evelyn Mabel Pullin of St. Saviour, President of the Education Committee, made a statement in the following terms -

  Members will be aware of the considerable  p ublic concern being expressed over media  r eports that the Education Committee is

 c onsidering pursuing the purchase of land

o pposite St. Saviour's School for possible

 u se as a site for a school or additional

 p laying fields. I wish to take this

o pportunity to set the record straight. The

 C ommittee has no intention of building a

 s chool on these fields.

T he Education Committee is beginning to

g ive some thought to developments which may b e necessary beyond the year 2000 and has

a sked the Director of Education to prepare

a report on future land needs for its

c onsideration.

I t is difficult to say with any certainty,

a t this point, what additional land, if

a ny, may be needed. The States have not yet d ecided on a housing strategy for the

W aterfront site; the birth rate has not yet

s hown any decline and the results of the

n ext census are not yet known. In addition,

c onsideration of issues such as the need

f or another town primary school, about

w hich members have been warned, to serve t he southern part of St. Helier ; the

s hortage of places for the under fives in

t he town area; whether additional land will b e necessary for playing fields to serve

t he schools in St. Saviour ; and longer term i ssues such as the possible need to

r efurbish or replace less than satisfactory

s chools such as the Victoria College

P reparatory School, will all be addressed

i n the Director's report.

H owever, I am sure members will understand t hat even with this uncertainty, given that

w e have been made aware that this land may b ecome available, my Committee has a duty

t o register an interest with the owner,

t hrough the Property Management Office, and t o seek a view from the Planning and

E nvironment Committee as to the suitability

o f this site and as to whether there is any

p otential for development at all.

I t will be necessary to bring the whole m atter to the States before any decision c an be made, but in this particular case, w e are still at a very early stage indeed i n discussions.

I can confirm that the vendor has been

n otified of the Committee's possible

i nterest in this land but, apart from an

i nitial site meeting between officers of

t he Education Department, the Property

M anagement Office and the vendor's agent, n o negotiations have been entered into. In

a ddition, the Committee does not intend to p ursue such negotiations until it has

r eceived clear advice from the Planning and E nvironment Committee. I understand that t he issue of the suitability of this land

i s on that Committee's agenda for next

T hursday.

I would remind the House that should the

E ducation Committee be made aware of areas

o f land which might be available for

p urchase, it will, as would other

C ommittees, carry out its duty, in

c onjunction with the Planning and

E nvironment Committee, to ascertain the

s uitability of the land before rejecting

a ny proposal out of hand. However, let me

a ssure members that, should the Education a nd the Planning and Environment Committees d ecide that it will be necessary to seek

a pproval to acquire land on which to

p rovide additional educational facilities,

t he matter will be brought back to the

H ouse in the normal manner and after full

d iscussion with all interested parties, for

t hat approval.''

No. 37 Broad Street, St. Helier : lease of accommodation and car parking

THE STATES, adopting a proposition of the Finance and Economics Committee -

 ( a) approved the leasing by the public of

t h e Island from Sherwood Investments L i m ited of the first and second floor

o f fi ces, archive storage and car

p a r king spaces at No. 37 Broad Street,

S t . Helier, for the purpose of

a c c ommodating the Financial Securities D  iv ision of the Financial Services

D  ep artment for a period of three years

f ro m 25th March 1996 at an annual rent

o f £ 30,000 (representing a rate of

£ 1 2.90 a square foot);

 ( b) authorised the Greffier of the States t o s ign the lease;

 ( c) authorised the Treasurer of the States t o p ay the rent as it became due.

Waterfront Enterprise Board Limited: election of Chairman

THE STATES, adopting a proposition of the Policy and Resources Committee, elected Donald George Filleul as Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Waterfront Enterprise Board Limited, in accordance with Article 39 of the Articles of Association of the Company, for a period

expiring on 20th August 2000.

Taxis and cabs in Jersey: re-organisation - P.28/96

THE STATES commenced consideration of a proposition of the Public Services Committee and adopted an amendment of Senator Nigel Lewis

Quérée that after the figures 1996'' there should be inserted the words , except that controlled cabs and uncontrolled cabs should be permitted to charge a controlled booking fee, in addition to the controlled fare, when operating as a private hire cab.''

Members present voted on the amendment as follows -

P o u r'' (35) Senators

J eune, Horsfall, Rothwell, Le Main, Le M aistre, Quérée, Bailhache , Syvret.

Connétable s

S t. Lawrence, St. Mary, St. Brelade , St. P eter, St. Helier , St. Saviour , St. Martin.

Deputies

W avell(S), Norman(C), St. Peter ,

H . Baudains(C), Le Sueur(H), St. Ouen, C outanche(L), Huelin(B), S. Baudains(H), C respel(H), Pullin(S), Trinity , Carter(H), J ohns(H), Duhamel(S), Matthews(B),

R outier(H), Dorey(H), Breckon(S),

G rouville.

C o n tre'' (10) Senators

 S henton, Tomes.

Connétable s

 S t. Clement, Grouville , Trinity , St. John. Deputies

W alker(H), Layzell(B), Huet(H), St. John.

THE STATES adopted the proposition as amended and agreed, in principle, that the Public Rank

Taxi (Jersey) Regulations 1956, as amended, and, if necessary, the Motor Traffic (Jersey) Law

1935, as amended, should be further amended so as to provide for the operation of taxis'',

controlled cabs'' and uncontrolled cabs'' in

place of the present system of public rank taxis and private hire cabs, as proposed in the report

of the Public Services Committee, dated 5th February 1996, except that controlled cabs and uncontrolled cabs should be permitted to charge

a controlled booking fee, in addition to the controlled fare, when operating as a private hire cab.

European Communities Legislation (Implementation) (Jersey) Law 1996 (Appointed Day) Act 1996 - P.29/96

THE STATES, in pursuance of Article 4 of the European Communities Legislation (Implementation) (Jersey) Law 1996, made an Act entitled the European Communities Legislation (Implementation) (Jersey) Law 1996 (Appointed Day) Act 1996.

Health Insurance (Medical Benefit) (Amendment No. 45) (Jersey) Regulations 1996 - P.30/96

THE STATES, in pursuance of Articles 18 and 46 of the Health Insurance (Jersey) Law 1967, as amended, made Regulations entitled the Health Insurance (Medical Benefit) (Amendment No. 45) (Jersey) Regulations 1996.

Adjournment

THE STATES then adjourned, having agreed that the outstanding item of public business should stand over until the next meeting.

THE STATES rose at 12.50 p.m.

  G  .H  .C . C  O P P O  C K G  re f fi e r o f the States.