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MH/PH/175 20
PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE (4th Meeting)
14th June 2002
PART A
All members were present, with the exception of Deputy H.H. Baudains, from whom apologies had been received.
In attendance -
D.C.G. Filipponi, Executive Officer
M.P. Haden, Committee Clerk.
Note: The Minutes of this meeting comprise Part A only.
Minutes A1. The Minutes of the Meeting held on 24th May 2002, having been previously
circulated, were taken as read and were confirmed.
Resources: A2. The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A2 of 15th May 2002, received a Financial report, dated 30th May 2002, prepared by the Deputy Greffier of the States and the requirements for Executive Officer regarding its financial requirements for the remainder of 2002. remainder of
2002. The Committee recalled that the only funding currently available was the small budget 1038/1/3/39(28) of the former House Committee (which was required to pay for States Members' 1240/22/1/6/2 lunches and the fax/photocopier in the Members' room) and a windfall' carry forward
(1) of the £14,955 from the budget of the former Special Committee on Freedom of Information which was transferred to the House Committee in 1999 and which it had
C.I.Aud. requested it could use at its own discretion for any of its work.
F.E.C.C.
T.O.S. The Committee noted that the following items and estimated costs had been identified Ex.Off. as the principal requirements -
Office administration costs of Privileges and Procedures team £ 7,000 Rental of office in Morier House (to be confirmed) £ 8 ,0 0 0 Research/seminars £ 1 0 , 0 0 0 Facilities for seminars - hire of rooms charges £ 5 , 0 0 0 Travel - visits to other jurisdictions £ 1 0 ,0 0 0 Books - to be added to any future members' library £ 5 , 0 0 0
Total £ 4 5 ,0 0 0 The Committee decided to request the Finance and Economics Committee -
- to approve the provisional budgetof £45,000 as detailed above in respect of its budget for the remainderof2002;and
- to confirm that thecarry forward from the HouseCommitteemightbe used by the Privileges and ProceduresCommitteeforany of its work.
The Committee noted that the President and Executive Officer would attend the Finance and Economics Committee at its meeting of 19th June 2002 to discuss this request.
The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Finance and Economics Committee accordingly.
Authorised A3. The Committee approved the Executive Officer, Mr D.C.G. Filipponi, and Mrs J. signatories. Bourke, Administrator, as authorised signatories for the payment of Committee 1240/22/1/6/1 invoices and accounts.
(3)
The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Treasurer of C.I.Aud. the States accordingly.
T.O.S.
Financial report A4. The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A5 of 26th April 2002, received a 31.05.02. Financial Report for the period ending 31st May 2002 and noted that its balance, 1240/22/1/6/2 including carry forwards from the House Committee and Freedom of Information,
(1) stood at £22,490.84.
Ex.Off.
Formation of A5. The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A3 of 24th May 2002, gave further Scrutiny consideration to arrangements for the planned Seminar on Scrutiny to be held on 1st Committees. July 2002.
1240/22/1(9)
The Committee noted that Dr C. Game of the Institute of Local Government Studies, Ex.Off. Birmingham had agreed to be main speaker at the Seminar on different models of
scrutiny in the United Kingdom. The President had met with Dr C. Game in London to
brief him on the local situation in Jersey. Senator W. Kinnard agreed to act as
Facilitator in the Group session. The Executive Officer was requested to prepare an
issues pack for States members in advance of the seminar.
On a related matter, the Committee noted that the President of the Health and Social Services Committee had agreed to allow recent agenda papers and Minutes from his Committee to be used as part of a shadow scrutiny' exercise, on condition that confidential information relating to individuals was not included in the papers so used. The President undertook to review the papers to select the items to be considered.
The President also gave an oral report on the recent visit to the Scott ish Parliament made by a delegation from the Committee, including himself, Senator C. Stein and the Executive Officer. The officers whom they had met in Scotland were keen to share the results of the research they had already carried out into models of scrutiny. The delegation had also obtained a video of question time in the Scott ish Parliament. The Committee was advised that this time was seen as a key element in the Parliament and an opportunity for effective, robust questioning rather than political point scoring.
On a further point related to Scrutiny, the Committee noted the response of H.M. Attorney General to the request made by the President to visit Professor J. Jowell who had been advising the Policy and Resources Committee on the constitutional relationship between the States and the United Kingdom. H.M. Attorney General had expressed the view that it would be more appropriate for a joint meeting to take place including himself in order that relevant advice would be consistent. The Committee agreed that this instance highlighted the requirement for clarification of the responsibilities of H.M. Attorney General to provide legal advice under the new Ministerial system and for Scrutiny Committees in the future to have access to independent legal advice.
Accommod- A6. The Committee received an oral report from the Vice President regarding a recent ation, services meeting of the P.70 group on the refurbishment of the States building.
and facilities for
States members. The Committee noted that Stage 1 of Phase I of the refurbishment contract was nearing 1060/5/1(18) completion. Stage 2 involved work which was much closer to the States Chamber. The
Committee recalled that the original plan was to stop work during planned States Ex.Off. meetings and provision was allowed in the contract for a certain number of pre-
planned days. However, with the extra sittings being proposed it was unlikely that the
extra days allowed in the contract would be sufficient with the result that additional
costs would be incurred. The Committee was advised that the former House
Committee had considered the feasibility of the States meeting at an alternative venue
for the remainder of Phase 1 but had rejected this option on the grounds of cost. The
Vice President agreed to review the relevant papers of the House Committee and the
Committee agreed to give further consideration to the matter at its next meeting.
The Committee also gave further consideration to the appropriate manner in which to consult with members on the requirements for accommodation, services and facilities. It was agreed that a list of suggested items should be drawn up rather than an open style questionnaire.
Report and A7. The Committee received a report, dated 30th May 2002, prepared by the Deputy Proposition on Greffier of the States in connexion with the Report and Proposition on the Restriction Restriction of the of the Length of Question Time (P.93/2002), lodged by Deputy A.J. Layzell on 28th Length of May 2002.
Question Time
(P.93/2002) The Committee was aware of the concern that had prompted Deputy Layzell's 1240/22(23) proposition due to the length of question time on a number of recent occasions together 1240/4(149) with the cost in Department time in researching answers. It recalled a recent instance
when a question had been based on hearsay which had turned out to be without Ex.Off. foundation, yet had caused the relevant Department a great deal of time, effort and cost Pub.Ed. to discover the facts of the matter. The Committee, however, agreed that it would be States (2) inappropriate at this stage to express any strong support for the proposal in isolation. It
recognised that some members would perceive the measure as a severe restriction on
the rights of individual members and, as a result, support for the proposition could
damage the Committee's credibility as the independent champion' of members. The
Committee intended, as part of its revision of the Standing Orders of the States of
Jersey, to seek the views of all members and to look at best practice in other
jurisdictions. It was possible that changes might be suggested to the manner of asking
questions but if this were the case there would need to be adequate safeguards to
ensure that all members were afforded adequate opportunities to obtain information
and scrutinise Committee Presidents (and, in due course, Ministers). It was possible
that alternative mechanisms would need to be in place before limitations could be
imposed on question time.
The Committee accordingly agreed to request Deputy Layzell to withdraw the proposition to allow the issue to be considered in a wider context. It endorsed the draft comments prepared by the Deputy Greffier of the States, subject to the inclusion of a number of revisions put forward by the Vice President.
The Greffier of the States was requested to take the necessary action to present these comments to the States.
Policy and A8. The Committee gave initial consideration to the draft Report and Proposition of Resources the Policy and Resources Committee on the Structure of the Executive.
Committee: Draft
Report and The Committee noted that the draft report and proposition had been released to all Proposition on States members before it had been afforded the opportunity to make any considered the Structure of comments. It was of the opinion that it would have been better to delay releasing the the Executive. draft projet in order that any comments it might wish to make might have been 1240/22/1(18) incorporated in the draft report and proposition before publication. This would avoid
the impression of the Committee seeking to introduce amendments to the Policy and Ex.Off. Resources Committee's proposition.
C.E., P&R
P.R.E.O. In addition, the Committee noted that some initial comments made informally by the P.R.C.C. President to another member had been conveyed to the Policy and Resources
Committee in advance of the Privileges and Procedures Committee having the opportunity for proper consideration of its comments. The Committee expressed its regret at this course of action.
The Committee requested that all States Members be informed that it had begun consideration of the draft report and proposition and that it intended to finalise its comments shortly. The President agreed to prepare his suggested amendments and revisions to the draft report and proposition over the weekend and the Committee agreed to consider them as soon as possible.
The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Policy and Resources Committee.
Draft Code of A9. The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A7(b), of 24th May 2002 Direction - considered the draft Code of Direction prepared by the States Treasury on Financial Financial Information to be provided in support of matters to be considered by the States. It information to be noted Act No.B1, dated 5th November 2001, of the former House Committee in which provided in the Deputy Treasurer had made a presentation to that Committee in this regard. support of
matters to be The Committee noted that the House Committee had expressed reservations regarding considered by the the ability of individual members to provide the required information without adequate States. impartial assistance. The Deputy Treasurer had agreed to redraft the Code of Direction 1038/1(48) taking the House Committee's concerns into account.
C.I.Aud. The Committee agreed that it would be happy to consider any new draft Code of F.E.C.C. Direction that had been prepared following the above meeting.
T.O.S.
Ex.Off. The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Finance and
Economics Committee.
Disqualification A10. The Committee was advised by Senator W. Kinnard, in her capacity as President of States of the Legislation Committee, that her Committee had been considering the question of Members. the possible disqualification of candidates for election as States members on the 1240/1/2(27) grounds of supplying false information about themselves in their election nomination
papers. The Legislation Committee considered that a declaration form should be Ex.Off. devised for candidates to sign in this respect. It further considered that it would be Leg.C.(2) appropriate for the Privileges and Procedures Committee to take the matter forward.
The Committee agreed to the request and directed the Sub-Committee currently examining the Code of Conduct for Members to bring forward a proposal for consideration at a subsequent meeting.
The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Legislation Committee.
Provision of A11. The Committee gave initial consideration to the question of provision of
Information. information to the public about the work of the States.
1240/22/1/6/1
(11) The Committee was advised of the difficulty experienced by the Vice President in obtaining certain documents from the Policy and Resources Department on behalf of a Ex.Off. constituent. These documents had not been available at the States Bookshop. The All Ctts. Committee agreed that, pending the implementation of a fully considered strategy on
the provision of information to the public, it would request all Committees to review its policies in this respect and to ensure that documents of public interest were made available in the States Bookshop.
The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to all Committees.
Outstanding A12. The Committee received and noted a report outlining its outstanding action Committee items. items.
Date of next A13. The Committee confirmed that its next meeting would be held on Thursday 27th meeting. June 2002, commencing at 3 p.m. in the Halkett Room, Morier House.