PPC Minutes 15th May 2002

MH/KAK/141 7

PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE

(2nd Meeting)

15th May 2002

PART A

All members were present. Deputy J-A Bridge was present for items A1 to A9 only. In attendance -

M.N. de la Haye, Deputy Greffier of the States M.P. Haden, Committee Clerk

Note: The Minutes of this meeting comprise Part A only.

Minutes A1.  The Minutes of the Meeting held on 26th April 2002, having been previously

circulated, were taken as read and were confirmed.

Resources. A2. The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A5 of 26th April 2002, received an 1038/1/3/39(28) oral report from the President regarding a meeting that had taken place on 10th May 1240/22/1/6(1) 2002 with the Machinery of Government Sub-Committee regarding resources for the

Committee.

C.E., P&R

P.R.C.C. The President advised the Committee that he had stressed the importance of securing P.R.E.O. for the Privileges and Procedures Committee executive support which was independent C.I.Aud. of the Policy and Resources Committee's team of officers. The outcome had been F.E.C.C. agreement to establish a small team to be based in at the States Greffe in Morier

House, comprising Mr D. Filipponi as Executive Officer, an Administrator and the part time services of a legal assistant, Mr S. Drew, Assistant Legal Adviser, Law Officers Department.  The  officers  would  be  shared  for  the  time  being  with  the  Special Committee  on  the  Composition  and  Election  of  the  States  Assembly  until  that Committee had completed its function. The Committee expressed its pleasure at this suitable outcome.

The Committee recalled that it was tasked with reviewing and amending or redrafting the States of Jersey Law, 1966, as amended. It agreed that it would require the services of an individual experienced in preparing law drafting instructions to assist in this task and decided to request the Policy and Resources Committee to second a suitable member of its team for this purpose. The President agreed to make an approach to the Policy and Resources Committee in this regard.

The Committee noted that it had not yet received a response from the Finance and Economics Committee regarding the financial resources it required. It was agreed that a delegation comprising the President, Vice-President and Senator W. Kinnard should request a meeting with representatives of the Finance and Economics Committee at the earliest opportunity.

The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Policy and Resources and Finance and Economics Committees.

Formation of A3.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A7 of 26th April 2002, having Scrutiny recalled that Deputy R.G. Le Herissier had agreed to take the lead in the development Committees. of a model for appropriate scrutiny arrangements for the new ministerial system of 1240/22/1(9) government, considered the way forward on this issue.

The Committee agreed that it was important to discover, not just the stated principles for scrutiny arrangements in various jurisdictions, but also to try to find out what had been  the  actual  experience  of  scrutiny  systems,  their  strengths  and  weaknesses, particularly in local government in the United Kingdom. The Committee agreed in principle to a proposal from Deputy Le Herissier that a study of this topic might be commissioned, subject to further information on the aims and cost of the study.

The Committee decided to give further consideration at its next meeting to formulating a statement of the core tasks for Scrutiny Committees and to clarifying the powers that might be assigned to these Committees. Deputy Le Herissier agreed to prepare a draft paper in this regard. In this connexion, the Committee noted the recommendations in the Report, dated 6th February 2002, of the Select Committee on the Modernisation of the House of Commons, which it felt might provide a useful starting point for its deliberations.

The  Committee,  mindful  that  it  had  been  tasked  by  the  States  to  bring  forward proposals on the formation of scrutiny committees before the end of August 2002, decided that it would hold a seminar to consult with other States Members on scrutiny arrangements at the end of June or early July 2002, prior to finalising its proposals.

Visit to Scott ish A4.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A7 of 26th April 2002, discussed Parliament. arrangements for a visit to the Scott ish Parliament by a delegation from the Committee 1240/22/1(9) to view its system of scrutiny at first hand.

D.G.O.S. The Committee noted that 11th and 12th June 2002 had been proposed as suitable

dates for a visit. It was agreed that the delegation would seek to depart on the evening of 11th June to spend 12th and 13th June in Edinburgh. The delegation would be comprised of the President, Senator C. Stein and the future Executive Officer, Mr D. Filipponi. The delegation agreed to define its aims for the trip and to draw up a list of areas of scrutiny it wished to research. Other members of the Committee were asked to contribute their own ideas.

Code of Conduct A5.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A8 of 26th April 2002, received a for Members. report, dated 12th May 2002, from the Deputy Greffier of the States in connexion with 1240/9/1(110) the preparation of a Code of Conduct for Members. In this connexion, the Committee 792/4(20) also received copies of the Code of Members of the House of Commons and the Code

of Conduct for Assembly Members of the National Assembly of Wales.

D.G.O.S.

The Committee agreed that the above Codes, together with the Code for Members of the Scott ish Parliament, would provide a useful starting point for a Jersey Code. It was agreed to form a Sub-Committee, comprising Senator C. Stein and Deputy C.J. Scott - Warr en, with assistance of the Deputy Greffier of the States, to take responsibility for this issue.

The Sub-Committee was requested to prepare an initial draft for the consideration of the Committee, which might be circulated as a consultation paper in June, with a view to presenting a finalised report to the States by the required deadline of the end of August 2002.

Accommod- A6.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A9 of 26th April 2002, received a ation, services report, dated 10th May 2002, from the Deputy Greffier of the States in connexion with and facilities for proposals for the provision of accommodation, services and facilities for members. members.

1060/5/1(18) The Committee  noted that, following  the work already  carried  out  by  the  House

Committee in trying to identify possible accommodation, it appeared that there were D.G.O.S. only three realistic options available, namely -

D.P.S.

P.E.C.(2) (a) exi  sting premises in the vicinity of the Royal Square;

2. acc  ommodation in the refurbished States Building, probably in the area covered by Phase 2 (existing Public Registry); and

3. acc  ommodation in Morier House.

The Committee recalled that no budget had as yet been identified for the purpose of providing facilities for members. It was advised that whichever options was chosen it was likely that there would be significant rental costs.

The Committee agreed that it was important, in the first instance, to assess the actual requirements of States Members in terms of library facilities, office accommodation, and meeting rooms. In addition, it was necessary to assess the accommodation required for Scrutiny Committees. The President agreed to liaise with the Deputy Greffier of the States in drawing up a preliminary list of requirements, which might be used as a basis for consultation with other States Members. Further work would be carried out on this issue once the Executive team were in place.

The Committee also raised the following related matters and agreed that they merited further consideration at a subsequent meeting -

1. S m  oking in the States Building - Deputy J-A Bridge agreed to prepare a paper on the issues involved;
2. S ecurity arrangements for the States Building;
3. Security  arrangements  for  rooms  in  which  Members  could  meet constituents;
4. E lectronic voting; and
5. T  ransfer  of  responsibility  for  States  Chamber  from  Public  Services Committee to Privileges and Procedures Committee.

The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Department of Property Services and the Planning and Environment Committee for information.

Remuneration A7.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A10 of 26th April 2002, received a and expenses report, dated 12th May 2002, from the Deputy Greffier of the States regarding the provision for provision of remuneration and expenses for States members.

States members.

1240/3(64) The Committee was advised that the current means tested' income support system

appeared to be unique as it was common practice in other jurisdictions for all members D.G.O.S. to receive some form of basic remuneration irrespective of their income from outside

sources. In addition, the majority of other jurisdictions provided a pension of some sort

to members. The Committee recognised that this issue was one of the most difficult

and potentially sensitive within its terms of reference. Jersey's traditional honorary

system  of  public  service  remained  highly  valued  in  the  Island,  although  it  was

increasingly clear that political representation was becoming a full time occupation for

many members.

The Committee further recognised that some fundamental political decisions about remuneration issues were required; in particular, the following questions needed to be addresses -

1. S hould all members receive a basic salary irrespective of income from outside sources?
2. If so, at what level should payment be fixed? Should it be sufficient to encourage well-paid professional persons to give up their employment and stand for the States? To what extent should the payment made reflect the nature of a member's responsibilities (for example, Minister, Chairman of Scrutiny Committee)?

3. W  as it necessary to take account of the present financial situation of the States when making recommendations or was this issue one that had to be tackled irrespective of that situation? and
4. S hould  a  pension  scheme  be  established  for  members  or  would  it  be simpler to pay members adequately so that they could make their own financial arrangements for retirement?

The Committee was mindful of the research already carried out in this respect by the Remuneration  Working  Party  under  the  former  House  Committee  and  of  the consultation paper produced by that Committee (R.C. 33/2001). Members were asked to study this document together with the subsequent comments received from States members. The Committee agreed to give the matter further consideration at its next meeting.

E-government A8.  The Committee received a report, prepared by the e-government Working Group Working Group. regarding, responsibility for the States Members Business Communications Package

(Laptop Project).

The Committee was advised that, since the House Committee no longer existed, the project team needed a body to ensure that its approved policy and procedures were addressed.  The  Committee  recognised  that  the  scheme  to  provide  members  with equipment and training was almost complete and that further development was now required, including  policies for issues including phasing out paper based documents, appropriate use of e-mail by States Members, developing the States Assembly website and building links with Departments in line with new demands under the ministerial system.

The Committee was also advised that no revenue funding for rentals and further installations and replacements had been identified beyond July 2004.

The Committee agreed that further consideration need to be given to the financial and technical issues involved with this project. Deputy J-A Bridge agreed to represent the Committee on the aforementioned e-government group.

Provision of A9.  The Committee recalled that it was required to bring forward to the States before Information to the end of December 2002 proposals on the provision of information to the public the Public. about the work of the States Assembly. Senator W. Kinnard and Deputy J-A Bridge

agreed to take the lead on this item.

Public Accounts A10.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A13 of 26th April 2002, received Committee and and  noted  correspondence,  dated  8th  May  2002,  from  the  President,  Policy  and Auditor General Resources Committee, in connexion with the second report of the Public Accounts Working Party - Committee and Auditor General Working Party.

report.

1240/22/1(18) The Committee noted that this report had been forwarded with the approval of the Finance and Economics and Policy and Resources Committees. The Committee noted

Act B3, dated 25th April 2002, of the Policy and Resources Committee in which that Committee had expressed its disagreement with the Working Party's recommendations concerning the membership of the Public Accounts Committee and its views in relation to the role of the Scrutiny Committees. The Policy and Resources Committee remained of the view that the Scrutiny Committee Chairmen should form the majority of the membership of the Public Accounts Committee and that Scrutiny Committees should be permitted to scrutinise Ministers and senior civil servants on financial matters. The Policy and Resources Committee, however,  recognising that the responsibility for implementing the Public Accounts Committee and the Auditor General now rested with the Privileges and Procedures Committee, had made it clear that it had not made a decision regarding the composition of the Public Accounts Committee but was merely

forwarding its views.

The Committee agreed to receive representatives of the above Working Party at its next meeting to afford them the opportunity of presenting their conclusions.

Special A11.  The Committee noted that the Policy and Resources Committee, in its report and Committee to proposition (P.70/2002) to the States on the proposed Departmental Structure and consider the Transitional Arrangements under the Machinery of Government Reforms, proposed to Relationship amalgamate the Special Committee to Consider the Relationship between Committees between and the States with the Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Committees and

the States - The Committee agreed that this would be a sensible arrangement and decided to advise proposed the Policy and Resources Committee accordingly.

amalgamation

with Privileges The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Policy and and Procedures Resources Committee.

Committee.

1386/2(61)

C.E., P&R P.R.C.C. P.R.E.O.

States ownership A12.  The  Committee  noted  correspondence,  dated  6th  March  2002,  from  Mr  C. of commissioned Gibaut, Strategic Development Officer, Department for Economic and Commercial studies. Development, on behalf of the Emerging Industries Board, regarding States ownership 371(29) of commissioned studies.

I.C. (2) The  Committee  was  advised  that  the  Emerging  Industries  Board  had  recently

commissioned a piece of research and report which had now been completed. The Board had decided that the report should be released into the public domain but, in the process of carrying this out, the consultants contended that the report was confidential to the Board and that only the executive summary could be released generally. The Board had sought the opinion of the Law Officers as to where it stood in law if it continued with publishing the report against the wishes of the consultant. The Law Officers had advised that the United Kingdom Copyright Act of 1911, as it had effect in the Island, vested ownership of literary work in the author (in the absence of contrary agreement or assignment). The Board would therefore have to agree a case by case licence, or negotiate assignment of the ownership, if it wished to publish the report further and avoid potential claims for damages from the authors. The Board had decided to bring this situation to the attention of the House Committee, which still existed at the time of writing, to ensure that States Departments consider ownership issues when considering work by consultants.

The Committee, however, formed the view that the Industries Committee was the appropriate body to take up this matter and decided to request that Committee to consider the issues involved.

The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Industries Committee.

Acts of other A13. The Committee noted the following Acts of other Committees and matters for Committees and information -

matters for

information. (a) A ct A2, dated 25th April 2002, of the Policy and Resources Committee

regarding its report and proposition on the restructuring of governmental departments under the ministerial system;

2. A ct A4, dated 25th April 2002, of the Policy and Resources Committee regarding the outcome of the Resource Allocation Workshops;

3. A ct B7, dated 25th April 2002, of the Policy and Resources Committee regarding administrative support for the Privileges and Procedures and liaison with the Legal Working Group;
4. let ter, dated 25th April 2002, from the Treasurer of the States regarding the proposed Committee Cash Limits for 2003 from the Revenue Allocation process; and
5. that the President would write to update all States Members on the progress made by the Committee after its first two meetings.

Dates of future A14. The Committee agreed the following dates for future meetings - meetings.

1. F riday, 24th May 2002, commencing at 11 a. m; and
2. F riday, 7th June 2002, commencing at 9.30 a. m.

Both meetings to take place in the Halkett Room, Morier House.