PPC Minutes 30th July 2002

MH/PH/217 42

PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE (9th Meeting)

30th July 2002

PART A

All members were present. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier was not present for items A1 to A3.

In attendance -

M.N. de la Haye, Deputy Greffier of the States

D.C.G. Filipponi, Executive Officer

R.W. Whitehead, Principal Legal Adviser, Law Officers' Department Miss P. Staley, Senior Assistant Law Draftsman (for a time) S. Drew, Assistant Legal Adviser M.P. Haden, Committee Clerk.

Note: The Minutes of this meeting comprise Part A only.

Minutes A1.  The Minutes of the Meetings held on 27th June, 2nd and 12th July 2002, having

been previously circulated, were taken as read and were confirmed.

Action Plan. A2.  The Committee noted the Action Plan, prepared by the Executive Officer, arising

from the meeting held on 25th July 2002.

Ex.Off.

The Committee requested the Executive Officer to merge this document with the Action List prepared by the President in his outline report, dated 22nd July 2002, and to maintain a single composite document for ease of future reference.

Finance Report A3.  The Committee received a financial report for the period ending 30th June 2002. 30.06.02

1240/22/1/6/2 It noted a balance of £20,091.36. An additional £45,000, agreed by the Finance and

1. Economics Committee, had notyet been allocated to cost centres.

Ex.Off.

Work A4.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A1 of 25th July 2002, received an Programme. update from members on the following aspects of its work programme -

1240/22/1/6/1

2. (a) Formation of Scrutiny Committees - It wasagreed that the Committee's initial report to the States, required bytheendofAugust2002, would seek

Ex.Off. at  this  stage  to  indicate  the  main  direction  the  Committee  would  be

following  in  relation  to  scrutiny  and  the  work  yet  to  be  done.  The Committee  would  not  yet  in  a  position  to  be  able  to  define  its recommendations;

2. Code of Conduct for Members - It wasnoted that theCode of Conductin many other jurisdictions was a short, concisedocument. It wasagreed that matters suchas Guidelines on the Register ofMembers' Interests could form a separate document. The Committee agreed to consider the draft Code at its nextmeeting.

T h e Deputy Greffier of the States was requested to check the number of

enquiries currently made by the public in respect of the Register of Members' Interests held in the States Bookshop. It was of the view that the Register should be made available on the States website. It was further agreed that the Greffier should be requested to send an annual reminder to Members to update their entries in the Register. This reminder should include clear guidelines on matters that should be included in the declaration, including interests of spouses or partners.

T h e Committee discussed the current rules for Members declaring an

interest and withdrawing from debate. The view was expressed that the standards currently applied in Jersey were particularly strict and sometimes lead to anomalies, such as the position of Deputy J.A. Martin declaring an interest in a debate on Housing rent subsidies and withdrawing from the debate despite the fact that she had been elected to the States on this issue. The possibility was put forward of a hybrid position whereby a member might declare an interest but remain to speak in a debate, without being able to vote. It was agreed that this suggestion required further consideration;

3. Provision of accommodation, services and facilities for members - The Committee received a report, dated 29th July 2002, prepared by the Executive Officer, detailing the results of the Members' facilities questionnaire.

I t a lso noted correspondence from Deputy A. Breckon, dated 19th July

2002, indicating an alternative view that comprehensive facilities for States Members should be provided elsewhere than the States Building. No response to his suggestions, however, had been received from any other member.

T h e Executive Officer was requested to prepare a draft paper, in

conjunction with Deputy J-A. Bridge, outlining proposals and costings for a multi-purpose common room with library and interview facilities in the current Land Registry area. This would be included as a further stage of consultation within the Committee's report to the States at the end of August 2002.

O n a related matter, the Committee noted correspondence, dated 22nd July

2002, from the Bailiff 's Chief Officer, indicating that, as far as the Bailiff was concerned, there was no objection in the long term, once the current refurbishment was complete, to furnishing members with the means of access to the States Building so that they might use the facilities provided for members.

A s regards access to Morier House, H.M. Attorney General had written to

the President on 22nd July 2002 indicating that there was no reason why relevant passes might not be made available to States members to enable access to the Privileges and Procedures Department and the Halkett Room. The Executive Officer was requested to pursue the provision of swipe cards to States Members accordingly;

4. Remuneration and expenses provision for Members - The Committee, with referenceto its ActNo.A5of 27th June2002,reviewedtheagreed

consultation paper on Remuneration of members. It decided that it would be

appropriate to include the paper in its report to the States at the end of August 2002, making it clear that at this stage the Committee was seeking the views of members and that any recommendations would be for the benefit of the future Assembly after the forthcoming elections. It requested the Executive Officer, in conjunction with Deputy J-A. Bridge, to review the paper accordingly.

States of Jersey A5.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A6 of 27th June 2002, recalled that Law 1966 - it had accepted responsibility for taking forward an amendment to Standing Orders Amendment (No. Relating  to  Certain  Transactions  in  Land,  the  purpose  of  which  was  to  increase 11) of Standing financial limits so as to reduce the number of transactions requiring States' approval. Orders relating to Certain It was noted that other Committees, namely the Finance and Economics, Planning and Transactions in Environment and Legislation Committees, had raised no objection to the Privileges Land. and Procedures Committee taking on this responsibility.

1240/4/1(24)

The  Committee,  having  noted  that  the  necessary  accompanying  report  had  been Ex.Off. finalised, agreed to lodge au Greffe' the draft Amendment (No. 11) of Standing Pub.Ed. Orders  relating  to  Certain  Transactions  in  Land  for  debate  at  the  next  available States (2) opportunity.

D.P.S.

C.I.Aud. The Greffier of the States was directed to  send a  copy of this Act to the above F.E.C.C. Committees for information.

T.O.S.

P.E.C.(2)

Leg.C.(2)

Reorganization of A6.  The  Committee,  with  Miss  P.  Staley,  Senior  Assistant  Law  Draftsman  in Committees attendance,  received  and  considered  the  first  draft  of  the  Reorganization  of (States' Reform - Committees  (States' Reform - Transitional  Arrangements)  (Jersey)  Act  200-, the Transitional purpose of which was to give effect to the transitional departmental structure set out in Arrangements) Appendix  3  to  P.70/2002  (Machinery  of  Government:  Proposed  Departmental (Jersey) Act 200-. Structure and Transitional Arrangements), as amended and adopted by the States on 1240/22/1(17) 24th July 2002.

Ex.Off. The  Committee  noted  that  it  was  anticipated  that  the  Telecommunications  Board L.D. would no longer be in existence at the end of the year 2002 following the incorporation

of Jersey Telecom. Accordingly it was agreed that the Telecommunications Board should  not  be  included  in  Article  5  of  the  draft  Act  on  the  amalgamation  of Committees  to  form  the  Economic  Development  Committee.  It  was  pointed  out, however, that it was currently unclear whether there might be residual issues remaining after  incorporation  which  might  need  to  be  taken  up  by  the  new  Economic Development Committee. (The President declared an interest in this particular matter.) It was agreed that this matter would be dealt with separately if necessary.

The  Committee  decided  to  remove  Article  9  of  the  draft  Act  which  dealt  with amendments  to  Standing  Orders.  It  was  agreed  that  policy  matters,  such  as  the distinction between Major and Minor Committees and the standard membership of Committees, should be dealt with by a separate amendment to Standing Orders.

The Senior Assistant Law Draftsman was requested to prepare the necessary revised draft Act accordingly, and, in due course, the appropriate draft amendment to the Standing Orders of the States of Jersey, which could embrace a number of outstanding issues. The Senior Assistant Law Draftsman and Deputy Greffier of the States were requested to liaise in the matter.

States of Jersey A7.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A10 of 14th June 2002, considered Law 1966, as a draft Declaration Form to be made by candidates for the office of Senator or Deputy amended - in pursuance of Article 8 of the States of Jersey Law 1966, as amended in respect of declaration by any relevant previous convictions.

candidates for

office of Senator The Committee recalled that it had agreed to take this matter forward in time for the or Deputy . forthcoming elections.

1240/1/2(27)

It was noted that a note on the consequences of making a false declaration was to be Ex.Off. inserted on the Declaration Form.

D.G.O.S.

L.D. It was further noted that the Declaration Form contained a sentence indicating that the Leg.C.(2) candidate accepted that the contents of the declaration might be made public. The C.des C. Committee was of the view that the public nature of the declaration was implicit in the

Law. However, it requested the Assistant Legal Adviser to clarify the matter.

The Senior Assistant Law Draftsman was requested to prepare the necessary draft Order to bring into effect the obligation on candidates to make a declaration. The Executive Officer was requested to liaise with the Comité des Connétable s in respect of the Declaration Form.

The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Legislation Committee for information.

Reorganization of A8.  The  Committee  considered  a  number  of  policy  issues  in  relation  to  the Committees - amalgamation of Committees following the decision of the States to adopt P.70/2002 transitional as amended, as follows -

arrangements -

policy matters. (a) M  ajor  and  Minor  Committees - The  Committee  noted  that  the  new 1240/22/1(17) Committee  structure  would  consist  of  only  14  Committees  in  total,  of

which two were Trading Committees, Harbours and Airport and Postal Ex.Off. Administration,  and  two  were Minor' Committees,  Legislation  and L.D. Overseas Aid. It was anticipated that the Cottage Homes Committee would D.G.O.S. no longer be in existence, subject to States agreement in September 2002.

The Committee agreed that there was no reason to maintain the distinction

between Major and Minor Committees during the transitional phase;

2. M ulti-Committee membership - The Committee,having agreed that it was  important to involve  all States members as fully  as  possible in Committee work, agreed that States membersshouldnotbe eligible as a memberofmore than twoCommittees;
3. Presidency - The Committee,havingagreed that it wasimportant to allow as  many Members as possible to  take  presidencies,  agreed  that  States membersshouldnotbeeligible as Presidentofmore than oneCommittee; and
4. Constitution of Committees - The Committee agreed that Committees should consist ordinarily ofnotless than five members,unless a decision was takento the contrary on any particular Committee.

The Committee requested the Deputy Greffier of the States to make arrangements for the amendments to Standing Orders to be prepared.

Policy and A9.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A2 of 25th July 2002, gave further Resources consideration  to  the  draft  report  and  proposition  of  the  Policy  and  Resources Committee: draft Committee on the Structure of the Executive.

report and

proposition on The Committee recalled that it had agreed its comments on the draft report at its the Structure of meeting on 2nd July 2002 but had deferred consideration of the appendices. The the Executive. Committee turned its attention to Appendix Two, namely Guidance and Procedure for 1240/22/1(18) Ministers', and agreed the following comments -

Ex.Off. (a) S tatus of Guidance and Procedure for Ministers' document - The C.E., P&R Committee  decided  to  request  the  Policy  and  Resources  Committee  to P.R.C.C. consider withdrawing Appendix Two from the draft report and proposition. P.R.E.O. The Committee was mindful that, in the United Kingdom, the guidance

given to Cabinet Ministers in the document, Questions of Procedure for Ministers', was not laid down by Parliament but was the work of the Prime Minister who wished to clarify the standards expected for his own team. It was not, therefore, binding in the same sense as Standing Orders or the Code of Conduct for Members. Its language was advisory as opposed to mandatory.  There  were  no  sanctions  for  breach  of  the Questions  of Procedure' other than dismissal for neglect of its provisions.

T h e Committee formed the view that the Guidance and Procedure for

Ministers' should not be given the status of a Code by presenting it to the states for approval. Furthermore, it should be for the Chief Minister to revise the Guidance and Procedure for Ministers' document once in office to ensure that it was in accordance with his/her management methods and style. However, if the document was to be presented to the States as part of a  report  and  proposition,  it  would  imply  that  any  modification  of  the document should similarly be submitted to the States for approval;

2. C ollective responsibility - The Committee agreed that the doctrine of collective responsibility, as defined inAppendixTwo,wastoo prescriptive. The Committee wasmindfulofother jurisdictions, such as the IsleofMan, which had setless rigid rulesand had allowed its policy in this respectto evolve. The Committee formed the view that the question of collective responsibility was intimately linked with themanagementstyle adopted by the Chief Minister.It recognised the need to have in place a mechanism ultimately ofremoving from office a Minister who,forwhateverreason, failed  to co-operate in pursuing  the  policies  agreed  by the  Council of Ministers. However,itfelt that othermanagement options were available to the Chief Minister before applying the ultimate test ofrigid allegiance to policy;
3. Access and retention of documents - The Committeeagreed that the rules applying  to  the  access  and retention  of documents needed  further consideration,  particularly  in  respect  of the  access  to  information  on ministerial decisionson the part of Scrutiny Committees. Clarification was required on the way such decisionswouldbedocumented and recorded.

It w  as noted that the draft document referred to a presumption in favour of Ministers having access to information in line with the current Code of Practice on Public Access to Information. However, it was pointed out that

this Code referred to Public' access. The Committee was of the view that a specific  Code  should  be  drawn  up  regarding  access  for  Ministers  and Scrutiny Committee to relevant information. Clear guidance was required on appropriate exemptions to full access to information. Consideration was

needed on access to information across ministerial boundaries.

A s regards the rules following a change of administration, the Committee

was  mindful  that  the  position  in  Jersey  was  different  from  the  United Kingdom model where a Party Political system existed. Restrictions on access to information should be confined as far as possible to private, personal information.

The Committee gave further consideration to the following issues contained in the main body of the report -

1. V ote of no confidence in an individual minister (paragraph 5.4) - The view wasexpressed that the alternative offered by the Policy and Resources Committee, namely the possibility of a proposition ofnoconfidenceinthe whole Council of Ministers, was too drastic an option and would leadto a tendency to inertia. Itwas pointed out, on the otherhand, that there were alternative  measures  available,  such  as the  Scrutiny  system,  to bring pressure to bear on individual Ministrieswhich might be considered to be failing; and
2. Role of assistant minister in the absence of a minister (paragraph 6.5) - The Committeeformed the view that it might benecessary to provide in the new Statesof Jersey Lawfortheassistantminister to cover the absence of a minister.

The Committee agreed that it would be appropriate to discuss its comments on the above  draft  report  and  proposition  in  the  first  instance  with  the  Machinery  of Government Sub-Committee of the Policy and Resources Committee. The Executive Officer was requested to make the necessary arrangements.

The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Policy and Resources Committee.

Seminar for A10.  The Committee considered a suggestion that a seminar be held in September prospective 2002 for prospective election candidates in order to brief them on practical issues election relating to membership of the States.

candidates.

The Committee agreed that such an opportunity was likely to be helpful to prospective Ex.Off. candidates. The Executive Officer was requested to make arrangements for such an

event and to make enquiries whether the States Chamber might be made available for

this purpose.

Matters for A11. The Committee noted the following matters for information -

information.

1. th at ane-mailaddresswas to besetup for the Committee at ppc@gov.je;
2. jo b advertisements with salary ranges relating to the Members' Research Service for the National Assembly forWales;
3. th at the President had written to the Bailiff regarding the presidency of the Assembly in circumstanceswherethe States continued to sit over several days and clashes arose with sessionsoftheRoyalCourt;
4. A ct No.A1,dated 5th July 2002 of the Policy andResources Committee in connexion with Machinery of Government: Departmental Structure and Transitional  Arrangements  (P.70/2001) - comments on  amendment of

Deputy G.C.L. Baudains; and

5. th e date of the next meeting whichwas to be held on 8th August2002, between 9 a.m.and11a.m.intheHalkettRoom,MorierHouse.