PPC Minutes 25th April 2003

MH/PH/122 53

PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE (10th Meeting)

25th April 2003

PART A

All members were present, with the exception of Deputy J-A Bridge from whom apologies had been received. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier was not present for items A3 to A5.

Senator C.G.P. Lakeman Connétable D.F. Gray Deputy F.J. Hill, B.E.M. Deputy C.J. Scott - Warr en Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier Deputy J.A. Bernstein

In attendance -

M.N. de la Haye, Greffier of the States

Mrs. A.H. Harris , Deputy Greffier of the States P. Byrne, Executive Officer

R.W. Whitehead, Principal Legal Adviser, Law Officers' Department (for a time). C. Pasturel, Assistant Legal Adviser M.P. Haden, Committee Clerk.

Note: The Minutes of this meeting comprise Part A and Part B.

Minutes A1.  The Minutes of the meeting held on 21st and 24th March and 4th April 2003,

having been previously circulated, were taken as read and were confirmed

Scrutiny - draft A2.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A1 of 24th March 2003, received report. and gave  initial consideration to a draft  report, regarding  the proposed  Scrutiny 502/1(6) function within the new machinery of government.

Ex.Off. The Committee noted that the President had made some initial revisions of style. The D.G.O.S. Committee was asked to consider the substance of the proposals contained in the G.O.S. above report prior to a meeting dedicated to the scrutiny proposals, to be held on 12th

May 2003. The Principal Legal Adviser was requested to comment on the legal issues in respect of scrutiny proposals in advance of that meeting. The Committee also requested that H.M. Attorney General be involved at an early stage.

The Committee noted that a number of States members outside the Committee had expressed the view that Shadow Scrutiny Panels should be established as a matter of urgency. They felt that it was important for backbench' members to come together as  quickly as possible to commence the  learning  process  that  would  be  part  of members working together in teams in new ways in Scrutiny Panels. Currently, a number of members without Committee responsibilities were operating as individuals without the support that would be available in the future under the proposed Scrutiny system. The Committee agreed to invite two members who had discussed the matter with Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier, namely Deputies R.C. Duhamel and P.J. Rondel, to prepare papers outlining their views and to meet the Committee to

discuss their suggestions.

The Committee was mindful of the importance of adequate resources and training being made available to the members of any future Shadow Scrutiny Panels. The Deputy  Greffier  of  the  States  was  requested  to  prepare  an  outline  training programme with an estimate of costs. The Deputy Greffier of the States was given authority to go directly to training providers rather than through the intermediary of the States Human Resources Department.

The Committee agreed that the proposition to accompany the draft report should set out the terms of reference, powers of Scrutiny Panels and any other matter upon which the States would be asked to agree.

The Committee recalled its intention of holding a further Scrutiny Seminar with particular focus on the Audit Function. The Committee agreed to defer any further Seminar until such time as its Report and Proposition had been lodged au Greffe'. The purpose of such a Seminar should be broadened in order to act as part of its consultation with members on its proposals as a whole.

The Committee recalled that the major outstanding issue yet to be resolved was the question  whether  or  not  a call-in' mechanism  was  appropriate  for  Jersey.  The arguments both for and against its introduction had been clearly and comprehensively set out in the draft Report. It was suggested that it might be left to Scrutiny Panels themselves to decide, in the light of experience, whether or not call-in' should be introduced. The Committee, having noted that some members had yet to finalise their views on the issue, agreed that the matter should be settled at its meeting on 12th May 2003.

On a related matter, the Committee considered correspondence, dated 7th April 2003, from Deputy G.C.L. Baudains regarding the accountability of Civil Servants. The Committee agreed that it was important to clarify in some detail the responsibilities of Officers to report fully and accurately to their Committees and, in the future, to their Ministers. However, while it was sympathetic to the concerns raised by the Deputy , it recognised that the particular issues did not belong within its own terms of reference but should be raised with the Human Resources Sub-Committee of the Policy and Resources Committee. In addition, the Committee recognised that there was a need to research further the position of Civil Servants called to account to Scrutiny  Panels.  It  was  clear  that  Civil  Servants  could  answer  only  for  the implementation of policy. They should not be asked to comment on policy. There was  a  need  for  further  clarity  in  defining  the  relative  responsibilities  of  States members and Civil Servants. The Greffier of the States was requested to research the position in other jurisdictions, in particular Westminster and the Scott ish Parliament.

States members' A3.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A2 of 4th April 2003, gave remuneration - further  consideration  to  the  report  and  proposition  of  Senator  E.P.   Vibert  on report and establishment of an independent Review Board (P.26/2003).

proposition of

Senator E.P. The Committee recalled that the Vice President had undertaken to lead its response to Vibert on the debate on the proposition. It requested that briefing notes be prepared for establishment of members prior to the debate and that papers and records be circulated from the an independent debate in July 1998 when the proposals of the independent review body under Review Board. the chairmanship of the former Senator John Averty were considered. (P.26/2003)

1240/3(70)

Ex.Off.

States members' A4.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A(ii) of 7th February 2003, remuneration - considered a letter, dated 20th March 2003, from H.M. Attorney General regarding request for refund the request by the Finance and Economics Committee to members to refund certain of overpayment. sums which had been overpaid in the period from January 2002 to March 2003. 1240/3(68)

The  Committee  recalled  that  the  above  overpayment  had  occurred  due  to  a Ex.Off. miscalculation on the part of the Treasury based on applying a Jersey Retail Price s

Index percentage increase using the September 2001 rate of 4.2 per cent rather than

the December 2001 rate of 3.1 per cent. The Committee noted the view expressed by

H.M. Attorney General that the Finance and Economics Committee should, if it

wished to recover the overpayment, bring an appropriate proposition to the States

requiring members who had received the overpayment to reimburse public funds.

Even if that was passed, however, in his view, the Court would not have jurisdiction

to enforce that Act against any States member who refused to make reimbursement.

It would be up to the States to consider what, if any, disciplinary action should be

taken  in  respect  of  any  member  refusing  to  make  reimbursement  in  those

circumstances.

The Committee noted that there was a further question which H.M. Attorney General had not been asked to address, that is, whether or not the Treasury was entitled to rectify the mistake that had been made by reverting to the December rate increase.

The Committee agreed that, before making a public statement on the issue, a meeting should be arranged with H.M. Attorney General and the President of the Finance and Economics Committee to discuss how to move forward. The President undertook to make the necessary arrangements.

Question Time - A5.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A4 of 4th April 2003, considered Proposed the  membership  of  the  proposed  Working  Party on  the arrangements  for Public Working Party on Business in the States.

the arrangements

for Public The  Committee  noted  that   Deputy  M.F.  Dubras  had  been  nominated  as  the Business in the representative of the Policy and Resources Committee. The President, Vice President States. and Connétable D.F. Gray agreed to represent the Committee. It was decided that 1240/7/1(78) two non-Executive members should be chosen on the basis of an informal ballot.

Letters inviting members to nominate their choice should be placed on members' G.O.S. desks at the beginning of a forthcoming States meeting.

C.E., P&R

P.R.E.O. The Committee agreed that the Working Party should be formally constituted as a P.R.C.C. Sub-Committee of the Privileges and Procedures Committee. It was agreed that the Ex.Off. Bailiff should be invited to chair the Working Party and the Greffier of the

States was requested to discuss with him the role he might play.

The Committee agreed that the options for changing the current format of Question Time' in the States should be referred to the Working Party for further consideration.

The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Policy and Resources Committee for information.

Administrative A6.  The  Committee,  with  reference  to  its  Act  No.  A5  of  7th  February  2003, Appeals Panel - received a report, dated 11th April 2003, from the Greffier of the States in connexion Annual Report. with the Annual Report of the Administrative Appeals Panel.

1386(3)

465/1(30) The Committee considered a draft Foreword to the Annual Report, prepared by the Greffier of the States. It endorsed the same, subject to a few minor changes which the

Ex.Off. President was delegated to agree.

Pub.Ed.

States (2) The  Committee,  having  noted  that  it  was  required,  in  accordance  with  the

provisions of Article 10 of the Administrative Decisions (Review) (Jersey) Law, 1982, as amended, to present the Annual Report to the States and agreed to do so and requested the Greffier of the States to take the necessary action.

The Committee agreed to invite the retiring Chairman, Mr. R.R. Jeune , C.B.E., to a lunch to mark his contribution to the Appeals Panel over many years.

The Committee was advised that two applications had been received for the position of Deputy Chairman of the Appeals Panel, namely Advocate R.J. Renouf and Mr. N.P.E. Le Gresley. The Committee, having noted that it was necessary to have two Deputy Chairmen, agreed that both applicants would be suitable to the position and requested the Greffier of the States to take the necessary action to formalise their appointment.

On a related matter, the Committee noted the suggestions of Deputy A. Breckon in correspondence dated 19th April 2003, regarding the possible establishment of an Ombudsman for Jersey. The Committee was advised that this question had already been considered by the Sub-Committee tasked with reviewing the current operation of the Administrative appeals system. The Greffier of the States was requested to prepare  a  paper  on  the  issues  involved  in  setting  up  such  a  mechanism, including a comparison with the position in other small jurisdictions. It was proposed that Deputy Breckon should be invited to the Committee to discuss his ideas.

Code of Practice A7.  The Committee considered a draft Annual Report for 2002, prepared by the on Public Access Committee Clerk, in respect of the Code of Practice on Public Access to Official to Official Information.

Information:

Annual Report The Committee requested that a further paragraph be added to the Annual Report for 2002. indicating the Committee's intentions to build on the Code with its proposals for new 955(11) Freedom of Information legislation.

Ex.Off. The  Committee,  having  delegated  agreement  of  the  above  change  to  the Pub.Ed. President, approved the Annual Report for presentation to the States.

States (2)

The Greffier of the States was directed to take the necessary action.

Annual Report of A8.  The Committee received its draft expenditure report, for the year ending 31st Privileges and December 2002, prepared by the Executive Officer.

Procedures

Committee The  Committee  noted  that  further  information  on  its  annual  accounts  would  be 465/1(40) presented at its next meeting.

Ex.Off.

Simultaneous A9.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A2(b) of 21st March 2003, Electronic received a report, dated 9th April 2003, from the Greffier of the States regarding the Voting. installation of the system for Simultaneous Electronic Voting.

1240/22(8)

The Committee received notes of a meeting held on 27th March 2003 in the States Ex.Off. Chamber and the decisions that been taken to date. It was noted that the Committee G.O.S. would be consulted before the proposals were finalised once prototype voting buttons had been received. It was also noted that the Bailiff would be involved in this round

of discussions.

The  Committee  requested  the  Greffier  of  the  States  to  inquire  about  the possibility of providing Braille signs on the voting buttons.

Media Training. A10.  The Committee considered a letter, dated 26th March 2003, from Mr. A. Watts,

News Editor, Channel Television, regarding proposals to offer the media a training Ex.Off. session in States procedures and terminology.

G.O.S.

It was agreed that a session would be offered in the Chamber before a States meeting.

The Executive Officer was requested to issue an invitation to all sections of the local media.

Guide to the Use A11.  The Committee received a draft Guide to the Use of the States Crest and States of the States Stationery, prepared by the Committee Clerk.

Crest and States

Stationery. The  Committee  recalled  that  the  need  for  such  a  Guide  had  become  apparent 1240/9/1(108) following a complaint regarding the use of States stationery during the elections in

2002.

Ex.Off.

The  Committee  referred  the  draft  Guide  to  the  Code  of  Conduct  Sub- Committee and to the Bailiff for comment.

Election A12.  The Committee noted that its views had been requested on a proposal received mailings. from the Director of Finance and Retail, Jersey Post, relating to payment for political 1240/9/1(120) mailings.

Ex.Off. The Committee noted that, following problems experienced by Jersey Post in the past Leg.C.(2) in receiving payment from certain election candidates, Jersey Post proposed that all

mailings promoting candidates in elections be paid in advance. The Committee felt that politicians should not be treated differently, with respect to payment, from any other Jersey Post customers. It was agreed that it was a matter for Jersey Post, as for any other business,  to  set its own  credit arrangements applicable to  all clients unless otherwise arranged.

The Committee noted that further suggestions had been made regarding election mailings;  for  example,  the  Committee  might  sponsor  joint  election  mailings,  or mailshot time might be booked in the approach to elections. The Committee agreed that  these  suggestions  merited  further  consideration.  It  agreed  to  return  to  them before the next election in conjunction with the Legislation Committee.

The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Legislation Committee.

Review of States A13.  The  Committee,  with  reference  to  its  Act  No.  A8  of  7th  March  2003, of Jersey Law - considered a Memorandum, dated 10th April 2003, from the President relating to the position of Dean current position of the Viscount and the Dean in the States Assembly, following the and Viscount. President's discussion with the Bailiff on these matters.

450/1(1)

The Committee noted that the Bailiff appeared to be averse to changes in the current Ex.Off. position of the Dean. The Committee, however, felt that there might be a place for

broadening the role of the Heads of other denominations and faiths in the Island. The

Committee agreed that the views of the Dean should be sought on his rôle in the

States. The President undertook to speak to him.

With regard to the role of the Viscount, the Committee received papers relating to the duties of the Serjeant at Arms in the House of Commons. The Committee felt that this type of function might be appropriate for Jersey but was unsure whether or not the current Viscount would favour such a change.

Shadow Scrutiny A14.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A5 of 21st March 2003 noted - Committee Acts from the Environment and Public Services, Employment and Social Security, support. Education,  Sport  and  Culture  and  Legislation  Committees  confirming  their 465/1(31) willingness to co-operate with a shadow' scrutiny exercise on the basis that further information would be made available on the operation of the proposed Panels, their Ed.S.C.C.(2) terms of reference and the likely resources and facilities that would be required. The Emp.SSC(2) Committee  recalled  that  it  had  received  support  from  other  Committees  in  this respect.

The  Committee  recognised  that  the  voluntary  support  of  other  Committees  was essential to the success of the proposed Shadow Scrutiny Panels. It recalled that it had agreed to draw up a voluntary protocol for inclusion in its forthcoming report and proposition on the establishment of a Scrutiny Function in Jersey in order that the Shadow Scrutiny Panels might operate without the full powers which it was proposed to accord to future Scrutiny Panels.

The  Committee  noted  that  two  of  the  above  Committees,  Education,  Sport  and Culture and Employment and Social Security, had included the matter on the B' Confidential Part of the Agenda. The Committee could not see any reason why this matter should be treated as confidential and decided to request the above Committees to review their procedures with regard to the use of the B' Agenda.

The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Education, Sport and Culture and Employment and Social Security Committees accordingly.

Acts of other A15.  The Committee noted the following Acts of other Committees - Committees.

1. Act  No. A11, dated  6th  March  2003,  of  the  Policy and Resources Committee in connexion with a progress report from theMachineryof GovernmentSub-Committee;
2. Act  No. A10, dated 6th  March  2003,  of  the Policy and Resources Committee  in  connexion with  that  Committee's proposals for communicating with other membersof the States;
3. A  ct No. A3,dated 12th March 2003,of the Financeand Economics Committee  regarding  the  draft report and  proposition  on States members' remuneration;
4. A  ct No.A7,dated 26th March 2003, of the Finance and Economics Committee regarding the process for approval of legislation relating to the machineryof government.

Matters for A16.  The Committee noted the following matters for information - information.

1. a n outline of its planned visit to the LondonAssemblyon2ndMay 2003 to investigate its Scrutiny arrangements. It was agreed that a media briefing would be prepared linking this visit with the publicationof the Committee'sreporton Scrutiny;
2. t hat action had been taken to address the problem of pigeons perchingin

the area outside the Public Entrance to the States Building. Spikes had been

fixed to window sills at a cost of £120;

3. t hat a draft Service LevelAgreementfor the States Building had been received. It wasnotconsideredto be acceptable in its current form. The Greffier of the States was requested liaise with the Public Services Departmentinrevising the said document.