PPC Minutes 28th November 2003

MH/PH/338  142

PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE (24th Meeting)

28th November 2003

PART A

All members were present.

Senator C.G.P. Lakeman Connétable D.F. Gray Deputy F.J. Hill, B.E.M. Deputy C.J. Scott - Warr en Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier Deputy J-A. Bridge Deputy J.A. Bernstein

In attendance -

M.N. de la Haye, Greffier of the States

Mrs. A.H. Harris , Deputy Greffier of the States Mrs. J. Marshall, Senior Executive Officer Miss F. Agnès, Executive Officer

M.P. Haden, Committee Clerk.

Note: The Minutes of this meeting comprise Part A and Part B.

Minutes. A1.  The Minutes of the meetings held on 14th, 17th and 24th November 2003,

having been previously circulated, were taken as read and were confirmed.

States members A2.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A2(a) of 14th November 2003, parking. gave further consideration to the issue of States members' parking arrangements. 1060/181(10)

The  Committee  noted  an  e-mail,  dated  28th  November  2003,  from  the  Senior C.E., P&R Executive  Officer  to  the  Chief  Executive  Officer,  Public  Services  Department, P.R.E.O. outlining the background to the proposed trial arrangements whereby States members P.R.C.C. would receive parking permits enabling them to park in public car parks free of E.P.S.C.(2) charge.

Ex.Off.

H.R.D. The Committee recalled that it had made clear in earlier correspondence to the Chief

Executive,  Public  Services  Department,  that  it  had  neither  the  expertise  nor  the resources to determine the various options available. It was concerned only that there should be guaranteed parking space provided to States members.

The Committee, mindful of the recent States decision to abolish means-testing for States members' remuneration, considered the suggestion that States members should pay for their parking permits from their expense allowance. The Committee recalled, with reference to Act No. A9 of 2nd October 2002, of the Committee as previously constituted, that it had surveyed the opinions of all States members on this question of charging States members for parking. Many members at that time had expressed strong opinions against this proposal. It also recalled correspondence, dated 2nd October 2002 from the Deputy R.C. Hacquoil, then President of the Public Services Committee, as previously constituted, in which it was stated that if charges were introduced, they would form part of an overall charging policy which applied fairly across the entire community'. The Committee was unaware that any such overall charging policy had been developed and agreed that it could not offer a conclusive view regarding charging States members until this was available.

The  Committee  accordingly  agreed  to  request  the  Environment  and  Public Services Committee to bring forward without delay an overall charging policy, in liaison with the States Human Resources Sub-Committee of the Policy and Resources  Committee.  In  addition,  the  Committee  agreed  to  request  the Environment  and  Public  Services  Committee  to  gather  information  on  all parking facilities available to States members in various Departmental locations, in order to ensure that a future policy might be based on equity of treatment.

The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Environment and Public Services and Policy and Resources Committees.

Shadow Public A3.  The  Committee,  with  reference  to  its  Act  No.  A2  of  31st  October 2003, Accounts received correspondence, dated 19th November 2003, from Senator P.F.C. Ozouf in Committee - relation  to  the  proposed  terms  of  reference  of  the  Shadow  Public  Accounts proposed terms of Committee (PAC), together with a revised draft Report and Proposition in the name reference. of the Finance and Economics Committee.

502/1(11)

The Committee noted that the Finance and Economics Committee had agreed to the Ex.Off. points raised by the Committee in its aforementioned Act, and had revised its Report T.O.S. and Proposition accordingly.

C.I.Aud.

F.E.C.C. The Committee noted the following points regarding the proposed terms of reference

for the Shadow PAC -

1. R esources - that it had been agreed that theShadowPAC might request additional  funds from  the  Privileges  and Procedures Committee's consultancybudget for ShadowScrutiny. Such a request would have to compete against funding requests from Shadow Scrutiny Panels;
2. R egister of Interests of independent members of Shadow PAC - it as agreed that this shouldbelodged with the Greffier;
3. Supporting authority - that reference to theworkoftheShadowPAC as  falling  within the  term internal  audit' was  not considered appropriate. It wasagreed that this section should be deleted.

In addition, the Committee noted that it had been requested by the Finance and Economics  Committee  to  agree  to  the  appointment  of  Mr.  Cameron  McPhail, recently retired Chief Executive of the Royal Bank of Scotland International, to fill an existing vacancy on the Audit Commission, with effect from 1st January 2004. The  Committee  endorsed  this  appointment.  It  also  noted  that  the  Finance  and Economics Committee had agreed with its view that the additional States member to be  appointed  to  the  Shadow  PAC  should  not  be  a  member  of  the  Finance  and Economics Committee.

The Committee noted that the Finance and Economics Committee had now decided to disband the States Audit Commission. The Committee welcomed this development as it had considered that there had been potential for confusion under the previously proposed  arrangement,  whereby  the  Audit  Commission  continued  with  certain separate  functions.  The  Committee  was  supportive  of  the  proposal  that  Mr.  T. Dunningham, current Chairman of the States Audit Commission should be appointed Chairman of the Shadow PAC during the interim period before the establishment of the full PAC function. The Committee approved the consequential amendment to its draft report and proposition on the arrangements and approval of the Chairmen and members of Shadow Scrutiny Panels and the shadow PAC.

The Committee noted that it was intended to lodge the Finance and Economics Committee's projet at the same time as its own projet on Shadow Scrutiny, with a view to a States debate on the same day, namely 20th January 2004.

The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Finance and Economics Committee.

Code of Practice A4.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A9 of 14th November 2003, on Public Access received correspondence, dated 7th November 2003, from the President, Finance and to Official Economics Committee relating to that Committee's comments on the Report and Information: Proposition  on  the  Code  of  Practice  on  Public  access  to  Official  Information: Measures to Measures to improve Implementation (P.164/2003).

improve

Implement-ation The  Committee  noted  the  concern  expressed  by  the  Finance  and  Economics (P.164/2003) - Committee that the proposal to make non-exempt support papers publicly available comments of might render the written advice received from officers more circumspect, leading to a Finance and less comprehensive understanding of the agenda items by politicians in advance of Economics the meeting and therefore resulting in protracted and less efficient decision-making at Committee. Committee meetings.

955(32)

The Committee disagreed with the views of the Finance and Economics Committee Ex.Off. in  this  respect.  It  was  mindful  that  in  other  jurisdictions,  such  as  the   Scott ish T.O.S. Parliament, the Executive was prepared to make support papers publicly available, C.I.Aud. including on the Internet. The Committee recognised that this would mean a change F.E.C.C. of culture in Jersey's government and was confident that it would be helpful to the

public's understanding of political issues, if Committee papers were more openly

available.

The  Committee  requested  the  Executive  Officer  to  write  to  all  Chief  Officers regarding the proposals to improve the implementation of the Code of Practice.

The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Finance and Economics Committee for information.

Freedom of A5.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A6 of 3rd October 2003, received Information - an  update  report,  dated  20th  November  2003,  from  the  Executive  Officer,  in proposed connexion with the Joint Working Party on Freedom of Information.

legislation -

update. The  Committee,  having  noted  that  the  Legislation  Committee  had  endorsed  the 955(30) request to the Working Party to consider and prepare briefing instructions for the

Law Draftsman for new legislation based on the model Freedom of Information Law Ex.Off. from the Commonwealth, approved the same.

States of Jersey A6.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A4 of 3rd October 2003, and Law - pre- with Ms. P. Staley, Law Draftsman in attendance, received H.M. Attorney General in consultation connexion with his comments, contained in his Memorandum of 24th November draft: comments 2003, on the pre-consultation draft of the new States of Jersey Law.

of Attorney

General The Committee was mindful that a meeting had been arranged with the Presidents of 450/1(1) the Policy and Resources and Finance and Economics Committees on 8th December 2003 at which the pre-consultation draft would be further considered by the three

A.G. Presidents and requested that a paper be prepared, following its deliberations at this Ex.Off. meeting, setting out the significant issues in the Law which remained to be finalised C.E., P&R to assist the Presidents in understanding the context of those issues.

P.R.E.O.

P.R.C.C. The Committee considered the following key points of the above Memorandum - L.D.

1. Preamble - The Committee agreed that itwasappropriate to pursue the concept of a preamble, provided that this did notleadto a delay in the Law. This was a rare opportunity to make a constitutional statementon the  relationship  between  the  States  and the  United Kingdom. The Committee considered that itshouldbepossibleto create a preamble which reflected the reality of the constitutional arrangementsandwhich would be acceptable totheUnitedKingdom authorities. It considered three models, prepared by the Attorney General and agreed that the Constitutional' model appeared to provide a sound basis to which the Department of Constitutional Affairs could not legitimately take exception;
2. Orders  in  Council - The  Committee was advised  that  there was a democratic deficit inthe current process for the registration ofOrders in Council which might be addressed in the new States of Jersey Law through the inclusion ofan article stating that, as a matter ofprocess, applications for the registration of anOrder in Council in the Royal Court shouldbemadebythe Attorney General duly authorised by the States. The resultof this wouldbe that the proposed piece of legislation, arising  from  the  Order, would  be considered by the  States  before registration - the States, in effect, wouldconsider a draftOrder.Ifan amendment was  considered desirable,  it would be sent  back  to the United Kingdom where the Order would ultimately be made. It was recognised  that  certain Orders,  as in  the  case of United Nations sanctions, would need a special procedure because oftheir urgency and so might beexempted from the requirement forStatesby the States.

T h e Committee agreed, in principle, with the revised process proposed

by  the  Attorney  General,  but  requested  further  information  on  the number and impact of Orders in Council applying to the Island in any one  year.  It  also  wished  to  know  whether  the  Island  had  any  real democratic control over such Orders. It was advised that there might typically  be  approximately  ten  Orders  annually.  Many  applied  to international treaties which the United Kingdom ratified on behalf of the Island.  The  Attorney  General's  routine  advice  to  the  Policy  and Resources  Committee  was  that  international  treaties  should  not  be ratified on the Island's behalf until legislation was in place in the Island to give effect to the treaties. It was agreed that such treaties deserved better scrutiny by the States;

3. precincts of the States' (article 1) - It wasrecognisedthat,asthe States Building was alsooccupiedby the RoyalCourt,itwas difficult to define the precincts oftheStates' without givingriseto some possible conflict between the States and the Court. The matter was delegated to the Law Draftsman;
4. C onnétables - The Committeeagreed that the words who are members of the States by virtue of their office' (article 2(1))shouldberetained.It agreed, however, that this should not, inany way, imply that therewas something different about the Connétable s asanelectedmemberof the

States in comparison with the Senators and Deputies. It was recognised,

however, that, until such time as the Connétable s relinquished their role as head of the honorary police in each Parish, there were policing functions over which the Court would continue to have some jurisdiction. This would extend to disqualification of the Connétable from office in the event, say, of a proven drink driving offence;

5. Disqualification for office as Senator or Deputy (article 8)- The Committee agreed that the word ordinarily' should be omitted in reference to the residency qualification for being a States member,on the basis that the electorate were entitled to expect a member to be resident in the Island. It wassufficient,however, for a candidateto have been ordinarily resident' prior to standingforelection (article 7);
6. Casual vacancy in the office of Senator or Deputy (article 13) - The Committee noted that the draft law required the Bailiff to inform the Attorney Generalforthwith' of anysuchvacancy.It was advised that this appearedtoremoveany flexibility as to practical issues in setting a date for an election to fill vacancy. Alternative forms of words were suggested, including as soon as practicable' or as soon as convenient'. It wasagreed that further consideration shouldbegivento this matter prior to the aforementioned meeting with the Presidents of the Policy and Resourcesand Finance and EconomicsCommittees.

O n a related matter, the question of the role of the Royal Court in

making the Order for an election of a States member was raised by Connétable D.F. Gray;

7. C ouncil of Ministers (article 18) - The Committee agreed that the draft Law appeared to give the Chief Minister sole responsibility for the conduct ofexternal relations, whereas it shouldbeclearly stated that the discussion and agreementof policy in such a potentiallyimportant part of Jersey's political businessshouldcarriedout in the context ofthe Council of Ministers. It was recognised that the conduct of external relations in practice would rightly devolve upon the Chief Minister; however, it should bean explicit functionof the CouncilofMinisters to set the policy direction in this regard. The Committee rejected the proposal that the Chief Minister be entitled Chief Minister and Minister for External Relations.

T h e Committee also considered the Council's role as regards the Budget.

It was agreed that the Budget should be considered the Finance Minister's budget, thus enabling the Minister to exercise actual control over the cash limits available to the different departments;

8. Selection, appointment, dismissal and votes of no confidence in Council of Ministers (articles 19, 20and22) - The Committeeagreed that the provisions of these articles appeared to constrain unnecessarily the Chief Minister in the ability to reshuffle hisMinisters and the States to express lackof confidence in individual Ministers. Itwas recognised that the above articles reflected the decisionoftheStates in adopting P.191/2002. The Committee noted that the Policy and Resources Committee, in its Act No.A1 of 20th November 2003, appeared to support changes to the provisions in this respect. It was agreed that further consideration should be given to this matter at the aforementioned meeting ofthethreePresidents;and

9. M inutes of the States as evidence (article 34) - It wasnoted that the procedures forrecordingthedecisionsof the CouncilofMinistersand of individual Ministers had not yet been determined. This would be the subject of a forthcoming reportbeingpreparedbytheSeniorExecutive Officer andtheManager,MachineryofGovernment Reforms.

The  Committee,  having  considered  further  minor  points  raised  by  the  Attorney General, also took note of the following matters raised in the aforementioned Act of the Policy and Resources Committee -

10. Power to change ministerial office (article 29) - the Committeeagreed with the proposal that the Chief Minister should have to take a draft Transfer ofFunctionsActto the States inordertomodifyor transfer ministerial responsibilities; and
11. Employing Authority - The Committee requested anupdatereport from the  States  Human Resources Department on this  issue,  which had immediate relevance to the Scrutiny function. The Committeefelt that it should  be  clear that there was a unified  Civil Service providing an impartial service to the States. The Executive should not be seen as having its own dedicated set of officers whose role was restricted to advising the Executive.

The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Policy and Resources Committee.

States Building - A7.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A3 of 14th November 2003, gave Request to further consideration to the matter of relinquishing a room within the Members' Area transfer of  the  States  Building  to  the   Bailiff 's  Chambers  for  the  Jurats,  taking  into Committee Room consideration an exchange of correspondence between the Bailiff and the President, to Jurats. Environment  and  Public  Services  Committee,  dated  19th  and  26th  November 1060/5/1(27) respectively.  The  Committee  also  noted  the  Vice  President's  letter,  dated  17th

November  2003,  to  the   Bailiff  setting  out  the  Committee's  views  following  its Bailiff meeting with Jurat J. de Veulle and the Bailiff 's Chief Officer on 14th November E.P.S.C.(2) 2003.

Ex.Off.

The Committee confirmed its views as set out in the above letter and re-iterated its support for a comprehensive review in respect of the needs and priorities of all the users of the building instead of seeking to solve the difficulties facing the Jurats by looking solely at the Members' areas. The Committee was conscious that States members occupied only 16 per cent of the building in comparison to 46 per cent occupied currently by the Royal Court and its officers (although it was aware that the latter figure included the office of the Bailiff who held a dual role in the Royal Court and the States Assembly) .

The Committee noted that a revised version of the Environment and Public Services Committee' approved Report and Proposition on the Use and Allocation of Rooms within  the  Royal  Court/States  Building  had  been  prepared  for  that  Committee's consideration.  In  this  revised  version,  the  room  previously  designated  as  the Members' Quiet Room had been re-assigned to the Jurats. The Committee confirmed that it would oppose this change of designation.

The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Environment and Public Services Committee accordingly.

Home Affairs A8.  The Committee received Act No A2 dated 21st October 2003, of the Home Committee: Affairs Committee in connexion with a proposed increase in taxi fares and noted the request to request  to  consider  the  establishment  of  a  Transport  Ministry  which  would  be consider the responsible for developing an overall strategy for transport in the Island. establishment of

a Transport The Committee considered that it could not support the establishment of a dedicated Committee. Transport Ministry which would increase the size of the Council of Ministers from 561/1(11) that agreed by the States in adopting P.191/2002.

C.E., P&R The Greffier of the States was directed to send a copy of this Act to the Home P.R.E.O. Affairs, Policy and Resources, Finance and Economics, Environment and Public P.R.C.C. Services and Harbours and Airport Committees for information.

E.P.S.C.(2)

H.A.C.(2)

H.Aff.C.(2)

T.O.S.

C.I.Aud.

F.E.C.C.

Acts of other A9.  The Committee noted the following Acts of other Committees -

Committees.

1. A  ct NoA5dated5thNovember 2003 of the Finance and Economics Committee in connexion with proposed amendments to the Code of Practice: PublicAccess to OfficialInformation.
2. A  ct NoA7dated 12th November2003of the Financeand Economics Committee in connexion with Hansard.
3. A  ct NoA1 dated 6th November2003of the Employment and Social Security Committee in connexion with StatesMembers' Remuneration: abolition ofmeans-testing.
4. A  ct NoA8dated 12th November2003of the Financeand Economics Committee in connexion with States Members' Remuneration – report and proposition.
5. A  ct NoA9 dated 12th November 2003 oftheFinanceand Economics Committee  in  connexion with  States  Members' Remuneration: establishment of an independent review body.

States Mace: A10.  The Committee considered a proposal by Connétable D.F. Gray that the House proposed of Commons be invited to make a gift to the States of Jersey of a Mace to mark the invitation to the forthcoming 1204 - 2004 commemoration of Jersey's unique links with the English House of Crown.

Commons to

make a gift to the The Committee noted that the Mace currently used in the States belonged to the States. Bailiff . It agreed that it would be appropriate for the States to have its own Mace. It

understood  (from  an  Article  in  The  Parliamentarian  2003/Issue  Three)  that  a Ex.Off. parliamentary Mace was traditionally a gift from fellow Parliaments. It noted that the

Mace used in the House of Representatives in Canberra, Australia, for example, had

been given to the House in 1951 by the British House of Commons to mark the 50th

anniversary of federation.

The Committee agreed that the proposal merited further consideration.

Date of next A9.  The Committee confirmed the date of its next meeting to take place on Friday, meeting. 12th December 2003, commencing at 10 a.m. in the Halkett Room, Morier House.