PPC Minutes 4th November 2004

IC/KAK343  278

PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE (28th Meeting)

4th November 2004

PART A

All members were present.

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier Senator P.V.F. Le Claire Connétable D.F. Gray Deputy P.N. Troy Deputy C.J. Scott - Warr en Deputy J-A. Bridge Deputy J.A. Bernstein

In attendance -

M.N. de la Haye, Greffier of the States (for a time)

Mrs. A.H. Harris , Deputy Greffier of the States

Mr. D.C.G. Filipponi, Assistant Greffier of the States (for a time) I. Clarkson, Committee Clerk

Note: The Minutes of this meeting comprise Part A and Part B.

Minutes A1. The Minutes of the meetings held on 16th September 2004 (Parts A and B),

28th September 2004 (Part B), 5th October 2004 (Part A), 8th October 2004 (Part A), 11th October 2004 (Part B), 14th October 2004 (Parts A and B) and 18th October 2004 (Part A), were taken as read and were approved.

Matters arising. A2. The Committee noted the following matters arising from the Minutes of its

meetings held on 16th September 2004 (Parts A and B), 28th September 2004 (Part B), 5th October 2004 (Part A), 8th October 2004 (Part A), 11th October 2004 (Part B), 14th October 2004 (Parts A and B) and 18th October 2004 (Part A) –

1. A ct No. B1 of 11th October 2004 – the Committee decided that the President should write Senator E.P. Vibert regarding his failure to comply with its request to read out his letter of apology to Deputy J.A. Hilton in the States, and
2. the  Committee  requested  that  copies  of  completed  Minutes  be distributed to members via e-mail and that printed copies be attached to the front of the subsequent agenda.

Shadow Scrutiny: A3. The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A9 of 15th July 2004, recalled allocation of that it had elected to allocate a specific budget of £35,000 to each Scrutiny Panel funding for for such matters as transcription services and the engagement of specialist advisors. consultation.

502/1(31) The Committee received correspondence, dated 3rd November 2004, from Senator

E.P. Vibert in his capacity as Chairman of a Shadow Scrutiny Panel, in connexion Clerk with the allocation of funding to individual Scrutiny Panels for consultation. Scrutiny

A.G.O.S. It was reported that the Scrutiny Panel chaired by Senator E.P. Vibert was already

committed to £47,000 of expenditure in 2004 and that the ongoing workload of that Panel would inevitably result in requests for additional funding.

The Committee recognized that the operation of the Shadow Scrutiny Panels was evolving and that an appropriate level of funding had yet to be determined. It was further reported that the overall financial status of the Scrutiny function was in comparatively good order. Further to the foregoing, it was understood that Deputy G.P.   Southern ,  in  his  capacity  as  Chairman  of  a  Shadow  Scrutiny  Panel,  had indicated that he would consider a request to transfer funds to the Panel chaired by Senator E.P. Vibert .

Notwithstanding the foregoing, the Committee considered that individual Scrutiny Panels  should  be  expected  to  demonstrate  that  they  could  plan  and  execute  a programme of work in accordance with the resources available to them. Concerns were also expressed that, in the event the Committee reverted to operating a single budget for all Scrutiny Panels, a future dominant chairman of a Scrutiny Panel might  succeed  in  committing  an  excessive  proportion  of  that  budget  to  the detriment of other Panels.

The Committee agreed to meet all financial obligations incurred by the Panel chaired by Senator E.P. Vibert , including all actual items of expenditure and those items on purchase order awaiting payment, for the period up to and including 4th November 2004. However, it determined that it was not minded to rescind its previous decision to allocate an individual budget to each Shadow Scrutiny Panel. Furthermore, it Committee determined that it would require a formal request, supported by an appropriate business case, before it would be prepared to consider sanctioning any further expenditure by the Panel chaired by Senator E.P. Vibert in the current financial year.

With regard to the longer term, the Committee agreed that the Shadow Scrutiny Panels  should  adopt  more  robust  accounting  practices.  It  recalled  that,  in accordance with Projet No. P.79/2003, a Chairmen's Committee was to have been set  up  to  coordinate  the  work  of  the  Panels  and  to  oversee  the  allocation  of resources. Whilst the Committee understood the reasons why regular meetings had not taken place, it nevertheless concluded that, in the interests of financial integrity  and  good  governance,  the  Chairmen's  Committee  should  meet regularly with effect from January 2005. Further to the foregoing, it was agreed that each Panel should determine in advance its programme of work for  the coming  year, together with the estimated financial  and  manpower implications  arising  from  each  individual  project,  and  submit  the  agreed programmes  through  the  Chairmen's  Committee  to  the  Committee  for comment.

The Greffier of the States was requested to send a copy of this Act to the Shadow Scrutiny Panels.

Scrutiny training A4. The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A10 of 16th September 2004, for States recalled that it had received a request from Deputy J.L. Dorey that training should Members. be given to States members who intended to sit on a Scrutiny Panel, specifically 502/3(9) addressing question and answer techniques and Chairmanship skills.

DGOS The  Committee  received  a  report,  dated  27th  October  2004,  from  the   Deputy Clerk Greffier of the States, in connexion with scrutiny training for Members of the Scrutiny States. It was explained that the Chairmen of the Shadow Scrutiny Panels had

indicated support for the use of a barrister in training Panel members. Enquiries had established that a Mr. John Sturrock, QC, who had conducted a particularly well received training course for Committee Hearings for the Scott ish Parliament Justice Committees, was an appropriate person to conduct the necessary training sessions. Although a firm quotation had yet to be finalized, it was envisaged that the course would take one or two days to deliver at a cost of £2,000 per day.

The Committee acknowledged that membership of the Shadow Scrutiny Panels had altered on several occasions during the course of 2004 and that new members were required  to  assist  on  the  Panel  chaired  by   Deputy  G.P.   Southern .  It  further acknowledged that the Scrutiny function would require an increasing number of States  Members  following  the  commencement  of  the  ministerial  system. It therefore considered that it would be both equitable and cost effective to offer the training opportunity to all States Members.

The Deputy Greffier of the States was requested to organize the necessary training session.

On a related matter, the Committee noted that Mr. C. Ahier , Scrutiny Officer was working  to  finalize  proposals  for  training  in  connexion  with  scrutiny  of  the Resource Plan 2005 and the Budget 2005.

Shadow Scrutiny A5. The Committee received an oral report from the Deputy Greffier of the States Panels: re- in connexion with the re-appointment of Shadow Scrutiny Chairmen.

appointment of

Chairmen. The  Committee  recalled  that,  in  accordance  with  the  terms  of  Projets  Nos. 502/1(12) P.186/2003 and P.194/2003, the States had appointed by ballot 2 Members to be

Chairmen of the 2 Shadow Scrutiny Panels, and a further Member to the post of Shadow Chairman of the Shadow Public Accounts Committee, for an initial period of 12 months. It was therefore necessary to re-appoint Members to the three posts in January 2005.

The Committee agreed that it should write to all elected Members of the States seeking expressions of interest.

The Deputy Greffier of the States was requested to take the necessary action.

Official Report A6. The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A10 of 23rd September 2004, of the States recalled  that  it  had  failed  to  secure  the  funding  necessary  to  facilitate  the Assembly and its commencement in 2005 of an official report or Hansard' service for the States of Committees Jersey. It further recalled that, on 26th October 2004, the States had adopted (Hansard'). amendments to the Standing Orders of the States of Jersey, which had resulted in 1240/10/1(1) oral  questions  and  the  answers  given  being  recorded  in  the  minutes  of  the

proceedings.

Clerk

The Committee received a report, dated 29th October 2004, prepared by the Deputy Greffier of the States and the Senior Committee Clerk, in connexion with progress on the development of a Hansard service for the States of Jersey.

It was reported that alternative approaches, using information technology, had been investigated. In particular, the streaming of audio on a dedicated Web site had been considered. However, the size of audio files was such that the cost of establishing an online audio archive was thought likely to be prohibitive. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the Committee considered that the feasibility of introducing Web casting of States debates might be a matter of interest to local media organizations such as BBC  Jersey.  It  therefore  directed  the   Deputy  Greffier  of  the  States  to  make enquiries accordingly.

The Committee considered a suggestion to produce selective transcriptions of major debates. It acknowledged, however, that agreement on what constituted a major debate might prove difficult and also that the cost of producing such transcriptions on an as necessary basis was relatively expensive at £220 per audio hour.

The Committee determined that it would not support the provision of selective transcriptions of major debates, although it believed that every effort should be made to ensure that a full Hansard service was put in place by January 2006.

Draft States of A7. The Committee, with reference to its Acts Nos. A1 – A3 of 28th October Jersey Law 200-. 2004, recalled that it had elected to table Comments to the amendments to the draft 450(2) States of Jersey Law 200- as proposed by Senator S. Syvret, by Senator E.P. Vibert

and by Deputy S.C. Ferguson.

The Committee noted that the draft States of Jersey Law 200- was due to be debated in the States on 9th November 2004 and agreed that the President would present the Law. It further noted that the forthcoming debate was likely to increase pressure on either the Committee or the Special Committee on the Composition and Election of the States Assembly to address the matter of the presence of non-elected members in early course.

Standing Orders A8. The Committee received a report, dated 28th October 2004, prepared by the of the States of Greffier of the States, in connexion with the production of a law drafting brief for Jersey: revision. revised Standing Orders of the States of Jersey.

1240/4(171)

It was explained that, although an initial working draft had already been produced, Clerk further  progress  could  only  be  made  once  the  Committee  had  determined  its G.O.S. position on a variety of policy issues, including –

L.D.

1. m  ethod for fixing meeting dates,
2. procedure at meetings of the States,
3. que  stions,
4. vot  ing, and
5. pr  escribed matters.

The  Committee,  having  acknowledged  that  the  extent  of  any  revisions  to Standing  Orders  would  effectively  be  determined  by  the  result  of  the forthcoming debate on the draft States of Jersey Law 200-, deferred further consideration of the law drafting brief until such time as the debate on the draft Law had been concluded.

Freedom of A9. The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A1 of 23rd August 2004, information – recalled  that  it  had  approved  the  secondment  of  an  officer  to  assist  with  the progress and production of drafting instructions for a draft freedom of information law.

research.

955(36) The  Committee  welcomed  Mr.  P.  Baker,  Strategic  Development  Coordinator,

Jersey Harbours. It noted that Mr. Baker had been selected for the secondment on Clerk the  basis  of  his  considerable  law  drafting  experience,  which  included  the D.G.O.S. development of the Shipping (Jersey) Law 2002. The Committee was advised that P.R.C.C. the said secondment was designed to operate as a part-time arrangement for a P.R.E.O. period of two months.

The Committee congratulated Mr. P. Baker on his appointment and noted that he was working closely with Deputy J-A. Bridge on the production of an initial brief for presentation to the Committee within one month.

On a related matter, the Committee received Act No. A13, dated 1st October 2004, of the Legislation Committee concerning draft freedom of information legislation. In particular, the Committee noted that the Legislation Committee had endorsed a recommendation made by Deputy J-A. Bridge that the Joint Working Party on Freedom of Information be dissolved.

Having recalled that the Joint Working Party on Freedom of Information had completed  its  review  of  the  Code  of  Practice  successfully,  the  Committee agreed to dissolve the said working party with immediate effect.

The Greffier of the States was requested to send a copy of this Act to the Policy and Resources Committee for information purposes.

Code of Conduct: A10.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A7 of 13th May 2004, recalled draft Protocol for that Deputy M.F. Dubras had made representations to it concerning the conduct of Relations States  Members  during  debates  and,  in  particular,  the  matter  of  personalized between States' criticism of civil servants.

Members and

States' The Committee received Act No. B3, dated 9th September 2004, of the Policy and Employees. Resources Committee, in connexion with a draft protocol for relationships between 1240/4(166) States Members and Public Sector employees.

G.O.S. The Committee agreed that personal criticism of individual civil servants in public P.R.C.C. was both inappropriate and unhelpful. It nevertheless considered that the draft P.R.E.O. protocol  as  approved  by  the  Policy  and  Resources  Committee  had  clear Clerk implications for States Members' right of free speech.

Having noted that the draft protocol had been proposed for inclusion within the Code of Conduct for States Members, the Committee referred the said protocol to the Code of Conduct Working Party for further consideration.

Senator P.V.F. Le Claire and Deputy J-A. Bridge expressed their opposition to the draft  protocol  and  requested  that  their  dissent  to  the  Committee  decision  be recorded accordingly.

The Greffier of the States was requested to send a copy of this Act to the Policy and Resources Committee for information purposes.

Schedule of A11.  The Committee, with reference to its Act No. A6 of 23rd September 2004, States sittings for recalled that it had lodged au Greffe' a report and proposition entitled, Meetings 2005. of the States in 2005' (Projet No. P.181/2004 refers).

1240/7/1(78)

The  Committee  received  a  report,  dated  1st  November  2004,  prepared  by  the G.O.S. Greffier of the States, in connexion with the aforementioned proposition. It was

explained that Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement was intending to present an

amendment proposing an alternate system of extra dates for each meeting.

The Committee recalled that it had proposed that each main' Tuesday meeting should  initially  continue  on  the  following  day  and  then,  if  necessary,  on  the following Tuesday. It noted that Deputy G.C.L. Baudains was intending to propose that the following Tuesday be set aside as the second day, with the following Wednesday being used as a third day if necessary.

The Committee agreed that it would proceed with a debate on its proposal at the next available opportunity.

With regard to the date of the election of the Chief Minister, the Committee recalled that its had proposed 6th December 2005 as a date for election on the basis that new States' Members  would  be  sworn  in  on  that  day  and  that  the  Chief  Minister designate would come to the States on 8th December 2005 to seek approval for a team of Ministers.

It  was  reported  that  the  Policy  and  Resources  Committee,  following  concern expressed by Senator W. Kinnard, had formed the view that a Chief Minister would benefit from the provision of an additional day in which to finalize his or her selection of ministerial candidates.

Having reflected upon its decision, the Committee agreed that the election of a Chief Minister should take place on Monday 5th December 2005. It therefore instructed the Greffier of the States to withdraw paragraph (b) of the aforementioned proposition and lodge au Greffe' a new proposition in due course.

Matters for A12. The Committee noted the following matters for information –

information.

1. a l ist of outstanding Committee actions and matters arising;

Clerk.

2. v arious items of correspondence, dated 25th – 27th October 2004, in connexion with ex-gratia payments to States Members (Act No. B2 of 14th October 2004 refers);
3. cor respondence, dated 19th October 2004, from the President to the President of the Environment and Public Services Committee concerning car parking for States' Members;
4. cor respondence, dated 28th October 2004, from the President to all States' Members concerning Committee Statements; and,
5. A ct No. A13, dated 9th September 2004, of the Environment and Public Services Committee concerning the allocation of rooms within the States Building.