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THE STATES assembled on Thursday 5th November 2009, at 09.30 a.m. under the Presidency of
Mr. Michael Nelson de la Haye, Greffier of the States. __________________
All members were present at roll call with the exception of –
Senator Stuart Syvret – en défaut
Senator Philip Francis Cyril Ozouf – en défaut (défaut raised at 9.36 a.m.)
Senator Sarah Craig Ferguson – en défaut (défaut raised at 9.36 a.m.)
Connétable John Le Sueur Gallichan of Trinity – excused attendance (arrived in the Chamber at 10.02 a.m.) Connétable Graeme Frank Butcher of St. John – en défaut (défaut raised at 10.19 a.m.)
Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier – en défaut (défaut raised at 9.36 a.m.)
Deputy Anne Teresa Dupré of St. Clement – ill
__________________
Prayers __________________
Documents presented or laid
Jersey Heritage Trust: financial review October 2009. R.122/2009. Presented: 5th November 2009.
Comptroller and Auditor General.
Committee of Inquiry into the management of the Health and Social Services Department P.145/2009
THE STATES, having resumed consideration of a proposition of the Health, Social Security and Housing Scrutiny Panel concerning the establishment of a Committee of Inquiry into the management of the Health and Social Services Department, rejected the proposal to agree –
- that a Committee of Inquiry be established in accordance with Standing Order 146 to inquire into a definite matter of public importance, namely the actions and effectiveness of the Management at Health and Social Services and other services available to vulnerable children; and,
- to request the Health, Social Security and Housing Scrutiny Panel –
- to identify an appropriately qualified individual or organisation to be invited to undertake the investigation and to bring forward for approval by the States the names of a proposed Chairman and members;
- to bring forward for approval by the States detailed terms of reference of the Committee of Inquiry.
Members present voted as follows –
573 Price code: B
POUR: 20
Senator A. Breckon
Senator S.C. Ferguson Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of St. Martin Deputy of St. Martin
Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy of Grouville
Deputy of St. Peter
Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire (H) Deputy S. Pitman (H) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy A.E. Jeune (B) Deputy T.M. Pitman (H) Deputy T.A. Vallois (S) Deputy M.R. Higgins (H) Deputy A.K.F. Green (H) Deputy D. De Sousa (H) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S)
CONTRE: 30 ABSTAIN: 1
Senator T.A. Le Sueur Connétable of St. Lawrence Senator P.F. Routier
Senator P.F.C. Ozouf
Senator T.J. Le Main
Senator B.E. Shenton
Senator F.E. Cohen
Senator J.L. Perchard
Senator A.J.D. Maclean
Senator B.I. Le Marquand
Connétable of St. Ouen
Connétable of Trinity
Connétable of Grouville
Connétable of St. Brelade
Connétable of St. John
Connétable of St. Saviour
Connétable of St. Clement
Connétable of St. Peter
Connétable of St. Mary
Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S)
Deputy J.B. Fox (H)
Deputy J.A. Martin (H)
Deputy of St. Ouen
Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L)
Deputy of Trinity
Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B)
Deputy K.C. Lewis (S)
Deputy I.J. Gorst (C)
Deputy of St. John
Deputy of St. Mary
Deputy E.J. Noel (L)
Referendum: position of the Connétable s in the States P.146/2009
THE STATES commenced consideration of a proposition of Deputy Montfort Tadier of St. Brelade and rejected an amendment of the Deputy of St. Martin that in paragraph (a) after the words "the position of the Connétable s" there should be inserted the words "and Senators"; for the word "question" there should be substituted the word "questions" and after the existing question there should be inserted a second question as follows –
"Do you think that the position of Senator with its island-wide mandate should be maintained?
YES NO " Members present voted as follows –
POUR: 16 CONTRE: 26 ABSTAIN: 0
Senator B.E. Shenton Senator J.L. Perchard Senator A. Breckon Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Peter Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy of St. Martin
Deputy of Grouville
Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire (H) Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy S. Pitman (H) Deputy I.J. Gorst (C) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy A.E. Jeune (B) Deputy of St. Mary
Deputy T.A. Vallois (S)
Senator P.F. Routier
Senator P.F.C. Ozouf
Senator T.J. Le Main
Senator S.C. Ferguson
Senator A.J.D. Maclean
Senator B.I. Le Marquand
Connétable of St. Ouen
Connétable of Trinity
Connétable of Grouville
Connétable of St. John
Connétable of St. Saviour
Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. Mary
Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.B. Fox (H)
Deputy G.P. Southern (H)
Deputy of St. Ouen
Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)
Deputy of Trinity
Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B)
Deputy of St. John
Deputy T.M. Pitman (H)
Deputy E.J. Noel (L)
Deputy A.K.F. Green (H)
Deputy D. De Sousa (H)
Deputy J.M. Maçon (S)
THE STATES commenced consideration of an amendment of Deputy Angela Elizabeth Jeune of St. Brelade that in paragraph (a) after the words "members of the States" there should be inserted the words "and the number of elected members of the States"; for the word "question" there should be substituted the word "questions" and after the existing question there should be inserted an additional question as follows –
"Do you think that the number of elected States members should be reduced by 6?
YES NO "
THE STATES rejected a proposition of Senator Philip Francis Cyril Ozouf that the Assembly move to the consideration of the next item on the Order Paper.
Members present voted as follows –
POUR: 13 CONTRE: 23 ABSTAIN: 0
Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Senator P.F. Routier Senator T.J. Le Main Senator J.L. Perchard Senator S.C. Ferguson Senator A. Breckon Connétable of Trinity Connétable of St. Ouen
Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Peter Deputy of Trinity
Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B) Deputy of St. John Deputy E.J. Noel (L) Deputy A.K.F. Green (H) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S)
Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. Mary
Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S)
Deputy of St. Martin
Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.A. Martin (H)
Deputy G.P. Southern (H)
Deputy of St. Ouen
Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)
Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire (H) Deputy S. Pitman (H)
Deputy K.C. Lewis (S)
Deputy I.J. Gorst (C)
Deputy M. Tadier (B)
Deputy A.E. Jeune (B)
Deputy T.M. Pitman (H)
Deputy T.A. Vallois (S)
Deputy M.R. Higgins (H)
Deputy D. De Sousa (H)
THE STATES rejected an amendment of Deputy Angela Elizabeth Jeune of St. Brelade that in paragraph (a) after the words "members of the States" there should be inserted the words "and the number of elected members of the States"; for the word "question" there should be substituted the word "questions" and after the existing question there should be inserted an additional question as follows –
"Do you think that the number of elected States members should be reduced by 6?
YES NO "
Members present voted as follows –
POUR: 6 CONTRE: 34 ABSTAIN: 1 Senator A. Breckon Senator P.F. Routier Deputy M. Tadier (B)
Deputy of St. Martin Senator P.F.C. Ozouf
Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Senator T.J. Le Main
Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Senator J.L. Perchard
Deputy I.J. Gorst (C) Senator S.C. Ferguson
Deputy A.E. Jeune (B) Senator B.I. Le Marquand
Connétable of St. Ouen
Connétable of Trinity
Connétable of Grouville
Connétable of St. John
Connétable of St. Saviour
Connétable of St. Lawrence
Connétable of St. Mary
Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S)
Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S)
Deputy J.B. Fox (H)
Deputy G.P. Southern (H)
Deputy of St. Ouen
Deputy of Grouville
Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)
Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire (H) Deputy of Trinity
Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B) Deputy S. Pitman (H)
Deputy K.C. Lewis (S)
Deputy of St. John
Deputy of St. Mary
Deputy T.M. Pitman (H)
Deputy E.J. Noel (L)
Deputy T.A. Vallois (S)
Deputy M.R. Higgins (H)
Deputy A.K.F. Green (H)
Deputy D. De Sousa (H)
Deputy J.M. Maçon (S)
THE STATES rejected an amendment of Deputy Angela Elizabeth Jeune of St. Brelade that after paragraph (b) there should be inserted a new paragraph (c) as follows –
"(c) to agree that the outcome of the referendum will be implemented by the States in
order to be effective for the 2011 elections, provided that there is a turnout in excess of 50% of the registered electorate voting in the referendum."
Members present voted as follows –
POUR: 18 CONTRE: 22 ABSTAIN: 0
Senator A. Breckon Connétable of St. Clement Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy of St. Martin
Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy of Grouville
Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire (H) Deputy I.J. Gorst (C) Deputy of St. John
Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy A.E. Jeune (B) Deputy of St. Mary
Deputy T.M. Pitman (H) Deputy T.A. Vallois (S) Deputy M.R. Higgins (H) Deputy D. De Sousa (H) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S)
Senator P.F. Routier
Senator T.J. Le Main
Senator S.C. Ferguson
Senator B.I. Le Marquand
Connétable of St. Ouen
Connétable of Trinity
Connétable of Grouville
Connétable of St. John
Connétable of St. Saviour
Connétable of St. Peter
Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. Mary
Deputy J.B. Fox (H)
Deputy G.P. Southern (H)
Deputy of St. Ouen
Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)
Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy of Trinity
Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B)
Deputy K.C. Lewis (S)
Deputy E.J. Noel (L)
Deputy A.K.F. Green (H)
THE STATES, having resumed consideration of a proposition of Deputy Montfort Tadier of St. Brelade , rejected the proposal –
- to agree that a referendum in accordance with the Referendum (Jersey) Law 2002 should be held as soon as practicable to seek the views of the electorate on the position of the Connétable s as members of the States and that the text of the question should be –
"Do you think that the 12 Parish Connétable s should have an automatic seat in the States Assembly by virtue of their office?
YES NO "
- to request the Privileges and Procedures Committee to take the necessary steps to implement the referendum.
Members present voted as follows –
POUR: 17 CONTRE: 29 ABSTAIN: 1
Senator B.E. Shenton Senator T.A. Le Sueur Connétable of St. Lawrence Senator J.L. Perchard Senator P.F. Routier
Senator A. Breckon Senator P.F.C. Ozouf
Connétable of St. Clement Senator T.J. Le Main
Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Senator F.E. Cohen
Deputy of St. Martin Senator S.C. Ferguson
Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Senator A.J.D. Maclean
Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Senator B.I. Le Marquand
Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Connétable of St. Ouen
Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire (H) Connétable of St. Helier
Deputy S. Pitman (H) Connétable of Trinity
Deputy M. Tadier (B) Connétable of Grouville
Deputy of St. Mary Connétable of St. Brelade
Deputy T.M. Pitman (H) Connétable of St. John
Deputy M.R. Higgins (H) Connétable of St. Saviour
Deputy D. De Sousa (H) Connétable of St. Peter
Deputy J.M. Maçon (S) Connétable of St. Mary
Deputy J.B. Fox (H)
Deputy of St. Ouen
Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)
Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L)
Deputy of Trinity
Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B)
Deputy K.C. Lewis (S)
Deputy I.J. Gorst (C)
Deputy A.E. Jeune (B)
Deputy E.J. Noel (L)
Deputy T.A. Vallois (S)
Deputy A.K.F. Green (H)
Changes in Presidency
THE STATES re-assembled after the lunch adjournment under the Presidency of the Deputy Bailiff .
Draft Banking Business (Depositors Compensation) (Jersey) Regulations 200- second reading P.86/2009
THE STATES resumed consideration of the Draft Banking Business (Depositors Compensation) (Jersey) Regulations 200- the principles of which had been adopted on 15th July 2009.
THE STATES noted that Regulation 1 was held over and would be considered later in the debate. THE STATES adopted Regulations 2 to 4.
THE STATES commenced consideration of Regulation 5 of the Draft Banking Business (Depositors Compensation) (Jersey) Regulations 200- and, adopting an amendment of the Minister for Economic Development, agreed that in Regulation 5(1), after sub-paragraph (d) there should be added the following sub-paragraph –
"(e) is the Jersey registered company called Community Savings & Credit Ltd.". Members present voted as follows –
POUR: 37 CONTRE: 0 ABSTAIN: 0
Senator P.F. Routier
Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Senator T.J. Le Main Senator F.E. Cohen
Senator J.L. Perchard Senator A. Breckon
Senator S.C. Ferguson Senator A.J.D. Maclean Senator B.I. Le Marquand Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of Trinity Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Lawrence Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy of St. Martin
Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.B. Fox (H)
Deputy of St. Ouen
Deputy of Grouville
Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire (H) Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy of Trinity
Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B) Deputy S. Pitman (H) Deputy I.J. Gorst (C) Deputy A.E. Jeune (B) Deputy of St. Mary Deputy T.M. Pitman (H) Deputy E.J. Noel (L) Deputy M.R. Higgins (H) Deputy A.K.F. Green (H) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S)
THE STATES commenced consideration of an amendment of the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel to Regulation 5 of the Draft Banking Business (Depositors Compensation) (Jersey) Regulations 200-, that –
(a) at the end of paragraph (1)(c) there should be omitted the word "or" and, after paragraph (1)(d) the following word and sub-paragraph added–
"or
(e) is a small trading company."
(b) after paragraph (5) the following paragraphs should be added– "(6) In this Regulation –
"employee" has the same meaning as in the Employment (Jersey) Law 2003; "small trading company" means a company that –
- is incorporated in Jersey;
- is a trading company; and
- upon the relevant date, satisfies the condition in paragraph (7) or (8);
"trading company" has the same meaning as in the Income Tax (Jersey) Law 1961.
- The first condition is that the company is not liable to be registered under the Goods and Services Tax (Jersey) Law 2007.
- The second condition is that for at least 6 months in the calendar year preceding the relevant date, the company employed less than 5 employees.".
Adjournment
THE STATES adjourned, having agreed to reconvene on Friday 6th November 2009 to continue consideration of the Draft Banking Business (Depositors Compensation) (Jersey) Regulations 200-, and the outstanding items of public business.
THE STATES rose at 5.29 p.m.
A.H. HARRIS Deputy Greffier of the States