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States Minutes 15th November 2017

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THE STATES assembled on Wednesday 15th November 2017, at 09.30 a.m. under the Presidency of the Greffier of the States, Dr. Mark Egan.

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All members were present at roll call with the exception of –

Senator Philip Francis Cyril Ozouf – en défaut (défaut raised at 9.48 a.m.)

Senator Alan John Henry Maclean – en défaut (défaut raised at 9.46 a.m.)

Senator Sarah Craig Ferguson – en défaut (défaut raised at 9.43 a.m.)

Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier – en défaut (défaut raised at 9.43 a.m.)

Deputy Susan Jane Pinel of St. Clement – en défaut

Deputy Kristina Louise Moore of St. Peter – en défaut (défaut raised at 9.57 a.m.)

Deputy Richard John Rondel of St. Helier – ill

Deputy Louise Mary Catherine Doublet of St. Saviour – en défaut (défaut raised at 9.49 a.m.) Deputy Murray Julian Norton of St. Brelade – en défaut (défaut raised at 10.02 a.m.)

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Prayers

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Notification of lodged propositions

Draft Budget Statement 2018 (P.90/2017): fourth amendment.  P.90/2017. Lodged: 15th November 2017.  Amd.(4) Senator P.F.C. Ozouf .

Draft Budget Statement 2018 (P.90/2017): fifth amendment.  P.90/2017. Lodged: 15th November 2017.  Amd.(5) Senator P.F.C. Ozouf .

Draft Budget Statement 2018 (P.90/2017): sixth amendment.  P.90/2017. Lodged: 15th November 2017.  Amd.(6) Senator P.F.C. Ozouf .

Draft Budget Statement 2018 (P.90/2017): seventh amendment.  P.90/2017. Lodged: 15th November 2017.  Amd.(7) Senator P.F.C. Ozouf .

Income Support: reinstatement of single parent component.  P.113/2017. Lodged: 15th November 2017.

Health and Social Security Scrutiny Panel.

Ratification of the Multilateral Convention to Implement Tax Treaty Related Measures to Prevent Base Erosion and Profit Shifting P.83/2017

THE STATES, adopting a proposition of the Minister for External Relations, ratified the Multilateral Convention to Implement Tax Treaty Related Measures to Prevent Base Erosion and Profit Shifting, signed at Paris on 7th June 2017 under the aegis of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development ("OECD").

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 43 CONTRE: 0 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator P.F. Routier

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Senator A.J.H. Maclean Senator I.J. Gorst

Senator P.M. Bailhache Senator A.K.F. Green Senator S.C. Ferguson Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Martin Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. John Connétable of Trinity Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy of Grouville

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy of Trinity

Deputy K.C. Lewis (S) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy E.J. Noel (L) Deputy of St. John

Deputy M.R. Higgins (H) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S) Deputy of St. Martin

Deputy R.G. Bryans (H) Deputy S.Y. Mézec (H) Deputy A.D. Lewis (H) Deputy of St. Ouen

Deputy L.M.C. Doublet (S) Deputy R. Labey (H) Deputy S.M. Wickenden (H) Deputy S.M. Bree (C) Deputy T.A. McDonald (S) Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy G.J. Truscott (B) Deputy P.D. McLinton (S)

Arrangement of public business for the present meeting

THE STATES approved the request of Senator Ian Joseph Gorst , in accordance with Standing Order 26(7), to reduce the minimum lodging period in respect of the amendment of Senator Philip Francis Cyril Ozouf (P.84/2017 Amd.Amd.) to the amendment of the Privileges and Procedures Committee (P.84/2017 Amd.) to the proposition of the Chief Minister entitled Elected Speaker and Deputy Speaker of the States Assembly: selection and appointment' (P.84/2017), and of the amendment of Senator Philip Francis Cyril Ozouf (P.84/2017 Amd.(3)Amd.) to the amendment of Senator Sir Philip Martin Bailhache (P.84/2017 Amd.(3)) to the proposition of the Chief Minister, in order that they might be debated at the present meeting.

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 38 CONTRE: 5 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Senator A.J.H. Maclean Senator I.J. Gorst

Senator P.M. Bailhache Senator A.K.F. Green Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Martin Connétable of St. Saviour Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy of Grouville

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy of Trinity

Deputy K.C. Lewis (S) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy E.J. Noel (L) Deputy of St. John

Deputy M.R. Higgins (H) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S) Deputy of St. Martin Deputy R.G. Bryans (H) Deputy of St. Peter

Deputy S.Y. Mézec (H) Deputy A.D. Lewis (H) Deputy L.M.C. Doublet (S) Deputy R. Labey (H) Deputy S.M. Wickenden (H) Deputy S.M. Bree (C) Deputy M.J. Norton (B) Deputy T.A. McDonald (S) Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy G.J. Truscott (B) Deputy P.D. McLinton (S)


Senator S.C. Ferguson Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. John Connétable of Trinity Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L)

THE STATES noted that, in accordance with Standing Order 34(1), Senator Philip Francis Cyril Ozouf had informed the Greffier of the States that his amendment (P.84/2017 Amd.(4)) to the proposition of the Chief Minister entitled Elected Speaker and Deputy Speaker of the States Assembly: selection and appointment' (P.84/2017) had been withdrawn.

Elected Speaker and Deputy Speaker of the States Assembly: selection and appointment P.84/2017

THE STATES commenced consideration of a proposition of the Chief Minister entitled Elected Speaker and Deputy Speaker of the States Assembly: selection and appointment' (P.84/2017).

THE STATES commenced consideration of an amendment of Senator Sir Philip Martin Bailhache P.84/2017 Amd.(3)) and rejected an amendment to that amendment of Senator Philip Francis Cyril Ozouf (P.84/2017 Amd.(3)Amd.) that, for the proposed new paragraph (3), there should be substituted the following –

"(3) paragraphs (1) and (2) shall be void and of no effect until a referendum on the question of whether the Bailiff should remain the President of the States, held in accordance with the Referendum (Jersey) Law 2017, takes place and shall not be implemented if the result of the referendum shows

that a majority of registered voters have voted for the Bailiff to remain President of the States." ".

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 8 CONTRE: 39 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Senator I.J. Gorst

Deputy of Grouville

Deputy M.R. Higgins (H) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S) Deputy L.M.C. Doublet (S) Deputy S.M. Wickenden (H) Deputy M.J. Norton (B)


Senator P.F. Routier

Senator A.J.H. Maclean Senator L.J. Farnham Senator P.M. Bailhache Senator A.K.F. Green Senator S.C. Ferguson Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Martin Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. John Connétable of Trinity Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy of Trinity

Deputy K.C. Lewis (S) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy E.J. Noel (L) Deputy of St. John

Deputy of St. Martin

Deputy R.G. Bryans (H) Deputy of St. Peter

Deputy S.Y. Mézec (H) Deputy A.D. Lewis (H) Deputy of St. Ouen

Deputy R. Labey (H) Deputy S.M. Bree (C) Deputy T.A. McDonald (S) Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy G.J. Truscott (B) Deputy P.D. McLinton (S)

THE STATES, resuming consideration of the amendment of Senator Sir Philip Martin Bailhache (P.84/2017 Amd.(3)), adopted the amendment and agreed that –

  1. In paragraph (1), before the words "to agree that –", there should be inserted the words "subject to paragraph (3),"
  2. In paragraph (2), for the full-stop at the end of the paragraph, there should be substituted a semi-colon.
  3. After paragraph (2), there should be inserted the following new paragraph (3) –

"(3) paragraphs (1) and (2) shall be void and of no effect unless the majority of the people

voting in a referendum on the question of whether the Bailiff should remain the President of the States, held in accordance with the Referendum (Jersey) Law 2017, have voted against the Bailiff remaining the President of the States.".

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 25 CONTRE: 22 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator A.J.H. Maclean Senator L.J. Farnham Senator P.M. Bailhache Senator S.C. Ferguson Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Martin Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. John Connétable of Trinity Deputy of Grouville

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy of Trinity

Deputy K.C. Lewis (S) Deputy E.J. Noel (L) Deputy of St. Martin

Deputy R.G. Bryans (H) Deputy A.D. Lewis (H) Deputy S.M. Bree (C) Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy G.J. Truscott (B)


Senator P.F. Routier Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Senator I.J. Gorst

Senator A.K.F. Green Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Brelade Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy of St. John

Deputy M.R. Higgins (H) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S) Deputy of St. Peter

Deputy S.Y. Mézec (H) Deputy of St. Ouen

Deputy L.M.C. Doublet (S) Deputy R. Labey (H) Deputy S.M. Wickenden (H) Deputy M.J. Norton (B) Deputy T.A. McDonald (S) Deputy P.D. McLinton (S)

THE STATES commenced consideration of an amendment of the Privileges and Procedure Committee (P.84/2017 Amd.) and, adopting an amendment of Senator Philip Francis Cyril Ozouf (P.84/2017 Amd.Amd.), agreed that, after the words "in 2019", there should be inserted the words ", provided that any such legislative amendments must include provisions for an Appointed Day Act which shall only be brought to the Assembly after the elections of May 2018".

THE STATES, resuming consideration of the amendment of the Privileges and Procedures Committee, as amended, agreed that for the words "following the 2018 General Election", there should be substituted the words "in 2019, provided that any such legislative amendments must include provisions for an Appointed Day Act which shall only be brought to the Assembly after the elections of May 2018".

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 42 CONTRE: 2 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator P.F. Routier

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Senator A.J.H. Maclean Senator I.J. Gorst

Senator L.J. Farnham Senator P.M. Bailhache Senator A.K.F. Green Senator S.C. Ferguson Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Martin Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. John Connétable of Trinity Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy of Grouville

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy of Trinity

Deputy K.C. Lewis (S) Deputy E.J. Noel (L) Deputy M.R. Higgins (H) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S) Deputy of St. Martin

Deputy R.G. Bryans (H) Deputy of St. Peter

Deputy A.D. Lewis (H) Deputy of St. Ouen

Deputy L.M.C. Doublet (S) Deputy S.M. Wickenden (H) Deputy S.M. Bree (C) Deputy M.J. Norton (B) Deputy T.A. McDonald (S) Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy G.J. Truscott (B) Deputy P.D. McLinton (S)


Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy S.Y. Mézec (H)

THE STATES noted that, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order 106(1)(c), Senator Sir Philip Martin Bailhache declared an interest which was not financial and remained in the Chamber for the duration of the debate on the proposition of the Chief Minister.

Arrangement of public business for the present meeting

THE STATES rejected a proposition of Senator Philip Francis Cyril Ozouf that the Assembly adjourn. Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 18 CONTRE: 27 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Senator A.J.H. Maclean Senator I.J. Gorst

Senator L.J. Farnham Senator A.K.F. Green Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Martin Deputy of Grouville

Deputy M.R. Higgins (H) Deputy of St. Peter

Deputy A.D. Lewis (H) Deputy L.M.C. Doublet (S) Deputy R. Labey (H) Deputy S.M. Wickenden (H) Deputy M.J. Norton (B) Deputy T.A. McDonald (S) Deputy P.D. McLinton (S)


Senator P.F. Routier

Senator P.M. Bailhache Senator S.C. Ferguson Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of Grouville Connétable of Trinity Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy of Trinity

Deputy K.C. Lewis (S) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy E.J. Noel (L) Deputy of St. John

Deputy J.M. Maçon (S) Deputy R.G. Bryans (H) Deputy S.Y. Mézec (H) Deputy of St. Ouen

Deputy S.M. Bree (C) Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy G.J. Truscott (B)

Elected Speaker and Deputy Speaker of the States Assembly: selection and appointment P.84/2017

THE STATES resumed consideration of an amendment of Senator Philip Francis Cyril Ozouf (P.84/2017 Amd.(2)) to the proposition of the Chief Minister entitled Elected Speaker and Deputy Speaker of the States Assembly: selection and appointment' (P.84/2017), as amended.

Arrangement of public business for the present meeting

THE STATES acceded to a request of Senator Philip Francis Cyril Ozouf that his amendment (P.84/2017 Amd.(2)) to the proposition of the Chief Minister entitled Elected Speaker and Deputy Speaker of the States Assembly: selection and appointment' (P.84/2017) be withdrawn.

Adjournment

THE STATES adjourned, having agreed to reconvene on Thursday 16th November 2017 to continue consideration of the proposition of the Chief Minister entitled Elected Speaker and Deputy Speaker of the States Assembly: selection and appointment' (P.84/2017), as amended, and other outstanding items of public business.

THE STATES rose at 5.41 p.m.

L.-M. HART Deputy Greffier of the States