Under which Articles within the States of (Jersey) Law 2005 and the Police Force (Jersey) Law 1974 can a charge be raised to Jersey Live organisers for policing

12.3  The Deputy of St. Martin of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the Articles within the States of Jersey Law 2005 and the Police Force (Jersey) Law 1974, which enabled her to charge the Jersey Live organisers for policing that event:

Following her answer of 11th September 2007 would the Minister advise members under which Articles within the States of (Jersey) Law 2005 and the Police Force (Jersey) Law 1974 that she was able to charge the Jersey Live organisers for policing?

Senator W. Kinnard (The Minister for Home Affairs):

Article 26(1)(c)(1) of the States of (Jersey) Law 2005 empowers a Minister to enter into agreements for any purpose of his or her office. Article 3(5) of the Police Force (Jersey) Law 1974 provides that the Minister may make an agreement with the police force in any other part of the British Islands whereby they will, on request, place at the Minister's disposal members of that force for the purpose of enabling the force to meet any special demand on its resources; and in any such case those members shall, during their period of duty in Jersey, carry out the duties and possess the powers and privileges of a police officer. Article 8(1) of the Police Force (Jersey) Law 1974 provides that it shall be the duty of the Minister to secure the maintenance of an adequate and efficient Force in Jersey. For the purpose the Minister may; (a) provide and maintain such buildings, structures and premises and make such alterations to any building, structures or premises already provided as may be required; (b) provide and maintain such vehicles, apparatus, clothing equipment and other articles as need may be required. So, given the above Articles and in the absence of a statutory regime for the recovery of charges a voluntary agreement was made with the organisers of Jersey Live and that the costs incurred by a police force from another part of the British Islands could be recovered. The organisers of Jersey Live were made aware of the potential costs of mutual aid provision and they, I assume, took those into account when they made their decision to hold the event over two days.

1. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:

If the charge was only in respect of the U.K. officers, of whom I think the Minister said there were

33, can the Minister tell us the total number of uniformed police officers who were on duty that

day?

Senator W. Kinnard:

I have already been asked this question last week. The charge was only in respect of mutual aid officers. I made it quite clear that the total number of uniformed officers would not be given in open session but it is certainly something I am quite happy to share with the Scrutiny Panel because they are going to be looking into this piece of legislation. I make it absolutely clear no charges were made despite the fact that States of Jersey officers worked very, very many hours of overtime and so did their honorary colleagues.

Deputy S.C. Ferguson:

I understand according to the paper there was something in the order of 60 honorary officers. Does this mean that there was significantly more officers from the U.K. on duty than there were from Jersey?

Senator W. Kinnard:

I am not about to stand here and ask a yes/no question and answer session. I have made it quite clear there are particular operational reasons why I have not given the number of uniformed States of Jersey police officers. I am happy to share that with the Scrutiny Panel.

2. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :

Given that there were about 60 honorary police over the two days, 33 U.K. police, however many from Jersey, does the Minister have a guide as to how many paid security officers there were brought and supplied by Jersey Live. Could she give us a rough  indication as to how many security/police uniformed honorary officers were on duty for the event?

Senator W. Kinnard:

I would need to have notice of the question for the number of security officers, I do not happen to have that among my papers with me today.

3. Senator S. Syvret:

The Minister was keen to emphasise that the agreement was not captured by the States of Jersey

extant policy on user pays charges; which is, they have to be approved by the Assembly because it

was a voluntary agreement. Is this the kind of voluntary agreement that one hears getting made in Godfather movies, the offer you cannot refuse?

Senator W. Kinnard:

It was a matter of their choice to hold the event over two days.

4. The Deputy of St. Martin :

I do not want to cast any aspersions on the States of Jersey Police, however, I have got to say [Laughter] not at all, I am asking a question because there is a perception that the reason why the English police had to come in was that the Jersey police were unable to withstand two days work. I am sure that is not correct but maybe it would help the House, if indeed the Minister gave the details last year of the number of officers who were engaged on both days, why the secrecy this year?

Senator W. Kinnard:

I have explained that there are particular operational reasons which I am prepared to share in-confidence with the Scrutiny Panel because they can be trusted to deal with such information and there are particular reasons why I am not prepared this year to give that figure.

5. Deputy J.B. Fox:

I am confused. I cannot remember the number but I could have sworn that I heard on the main national news that the Metropolitan Police announced how many police officers were needed. I

have, I think about 3,000 for the Notting Hill carnival. Now I am confused as to why we have, it

seems, a new policy that says that we cannot divulge such information. I would ask the Minister, would she please ask her counterpart at the Home Office whether it is something, is it a Home Office guideline and if it is not if you can come out and tell us why there appears to be this difference of one carnival being able to give us the numbers and the other carnival not? The other question is, if she is prepared to give the information to a Scrutiny Panel but appears not to trust the remaining States' members, I am sure she did not quite mean that but perhaps she could answer that?

Senator W. Kinnard:

It is not a matter of policy, it is just that there are particular reasons at this time why I am not prepared to make the announcement about figures in public. I do not mean to cast any aspersions upon other members, the reason I mentioned the Scrutiny Panel is, (1) they are looking into this whole area and; (2) there is provision, of course, that when Scrutiny Panels have information shared with them in-confidence that they do keep that information confidential. I would say that I am absolutely prepared to share that information with a Scrutiny Panel and convince them of the reasons why. On this particular occasion, I do not think it is right to give those figures out in open session.

6. Deputy J.B. Fox:

Supplementary, please, Sir, would she be prepared to privately share it with me?

Senator W. Kinnard:

No, Sir, I cannot start treating some members differently to others.

7. Connétable J.L.S. Gallichan of Trinity :

I just feel I have to say something. I am listening to all these people. The question - I am not going to say, because I would just like to say, Sir, for the first time at the Jersey Live there were a number of honorary police and States' police working together. This was a great success. People always worry about the number

The Greffier of the States (in the Chair): It is question time.

The Connétable of Trinity :

The question right, Sir, the question is; is the Minister very happy the way the honorary police, of all the Island, the States' police, the security and everyone involved with the Jersey Live Festival proved it a great success and nobody came to any harm and the disturbance was controlled, and I think they should be praised not questioned all the time. At the end of the day it is public people's safety we have to ensure. Does she agree with the great success on that count?

Senator W. Kinnard:

I absolutely concur with everything the Connétable has said.

8. Deputy J.A. Martin:

Did the Minister just inform the House that she is going to try to convince the Scrutiny Panel with the reasons that she is keeping this information top secret and if that is so, is it not just a waste of time of the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel to even invite her along?

Senator W. Kinnard: No, Sir.