Where Departments have seen an increase in manpower are these additional employees in new or existing posts and if new why have they been permitted when there are calls for restraint

5.5  The Deputy of St. John of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding increases in the public sector workforce:

Following the publication by the Statistics Unit of figures showing a significant increase in the public sector workforce, can the Minister give details of which departments have seen an increase in manpower and whether the additional employees are in new or existing posts and, if new, would he explain why this has been permitted when the Council of Ministers is calling for restraint?

Senator P.F.C Ozouf (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):

I should start by politely reminding the Deputy that all increases in posts are effectively agreed in the States Annual Business Plan and for this year in addition as a result of the States Assembly approval of fiscal stimulus funding. The annex of the Annual Business Plan details posts and individual Ministers, I am sure, will be happy to provide an explanation of the increases in their individual departments. What I can

say to assist the Deputy , of those increases reported, 27 were in Education, Sport and Culture - 12 were fiscal stimulus funding, 15 were permanent recruitment to vacancies; 35 in Health and Social Services as a result of increased funding; 35 in Home Affairs (mainly prison officers) but including, for example, a seconded assistant emergency planning officer, a P.A. (personal assistant) to the Minister, an individual for Vetting and Barring; 9 were in Economic Development, including 8 administrative trainees for fiscal stimulus; 7 for Social Security (mainly fiscal stimulus); 6 in the Chief Minister's Department to strengthen international relations,

tax and affairs and a project officer and the deputy chief executive; 5 in Transport and Technical Services, all due to fiscal stimulus; and 3 in Treasury and Resources relating to the strengthening of the Treasury. Departments filled approved vacancies in the reporting period for 97 of the 138 figures, a fiscal stimulus related to 32 of the total posts. What I can say to the Deputy finally is that the Council of Ministers is urging restraint on filling of vacancies and has requested that all vacancies filling are considered at department senior management team as well as the co-ordination with

States H.R. (Human Resources). This, together with the voluntary redundancy scheme, I hope will allow departments to start restructuring and to progress the Comprehensive Spending Review.

1. The Deputy of St. John :

Have any of the positions been filled by non-Island residents and, if so, how many, given that we have some 1,200 people registered with Social Security as unemployed?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

I would need notice of the detailed breakdown but what I can say to the Deputy , I am advised most of the employees that are recruited from off-Island relate to areas such as Health where there is a requirement to bring in specialised staff from outside the Island. I agree with the Deputy that the first call on filling vacancies should be locally-qualified people and I think the States record in relation to that is strong.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Can the Minister guarantee that the 32 posts filled from fiscal stimulus funding will, at the appropriate time, be wound-up and will not continue ad infinitum? Will he agree to circulate the details he has just given to all Members in writing?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

The temporary nature of fiscal stimulus funding means that the Deputy is quite right that they will be wound-down. I am sure the Deputy would agree that the fiscal stimulus funding in running programmes such as Advance to Work is making a meaningful difference in helping people that otherwise would be on the unemployment register and that there is good work going on. But, yes, those jobs, as far as the co-ordination of that, will go.

Senator J.L. Perchard:

Deputy Southern asked the very same question that I was about to.

3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

The Minister spoke very quickly, obviously with the hope of burying unpalatable facts. Would the Minister acknowledge that there has been an unprecedented growth in the management levels of the organisation despite the avowed policy of only developing frontline staff and services?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

I do not think that I am trying to deal with unpalatable facts; I will circulate the details of what I said to Members if that is of assistance. Perhaps this would be more sensible for a written question. Concerning management, I think that we need to be honest and say that in some areas of the States organisation that there is management which could be regarded as top heavy. In others, there are improvements that are required to strengthen the operations. We have had numerous reports, for example, at Health and Social Services which have said that the management of Health need to be

strengthened to get better value for money, to get better prioritisation of resources. I

have to say that that is the case in the Treasury too. It is an uncomfortable position that I am having to bid for money for strengthening the Treasury to improve financial management, doing exactly what the Comptroller and Auditor General said. Better management, most appropriate management, will mean better value for money across the organisation and we should not duck that even though that sometimes does not trip off the tongue in a populist way.

4. The Deputy of St. John :

Does the Minister not consider that the States are operating double-standards in that the public sector workforce is growing while the private sector workforce is reducing? Secondly, will he give us numbers of members of staff working within the Chief Minister's Department since we have had an increase of 6, given not so many years ago the President of P. and R. (Policy and Resources) operated with one man and his secretary i.e. the former Chief Officer, Mr. Powell, running the entire department and made an excellent job of it?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

There were a couple of questions in there. The public sector: I do not regard myself as a Keynesian but I have to say that during the time of an economic downturn I think that there is a strong argument for States spending - investment - to be stepped-up in order to ensure that people are kept in work that otherwise would not. While it is frustrating for drivers along Victoria Avenue, that is an example of the States taking action, investing in the economy, putting in maintenance which the Deputy cares very much about. There is investment in drains on the railway walk that is being carried out; that is investment that is required in the economic downturn period that does need to be wound-back. In relation to the Chief Minister's Department, I endorse the

comments that the Deputy makes about the outstanding record of the individual that

he mentioned; however, we need to be aware that the world has become very

complex. The world in terms of international relations, in terms of international tax, means that the Treasury and the Chief Minister's Department need the appropriate staff to deal with these issues. I have said to the Deputy that it was this Assembly that approved an increase in staff in the Chief Minister's Department which included 6 posts, including the Director of International Tax, Director of International Affairs, et cetera.

The Bailiff :

I do not think you need to go into detail.

The Deputy of St. John :

The question was how many members of staff within the department which would be 6 ...

The Bailiff :

I am sorry, Deputy , we are going to have to move on.

The Deputy of St. John :

You are cutting me off at the knees again.

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : It is very quick; it is 6.