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2.14 Deputy T.M. Pitman of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the reopening of Operation Rectangle in light of allegations made in respect of Jimmy Savile at Haut de la Garenne:
Following recent allegations regarding Jimmy Savile at Haute de la Garenne and further to his statement on 10th July 2012 that the door was not closed if new evidence came to light, will the Minister be requesting that Operation Rectangle be reopened?
Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs):
It was recognised earlier this year by the States of Jersey Police that the Historical Abuse Compensation Scheme was likely to lead to new victims coming forward. Although any new historical allegations would not be investigated under the auspices of Operation Rectangle, any new complaints and complainants will be treated in exactly the same way as any other victim and their allegations recorded and investigated, and this of course equally applies to additional allegations in relation to Jimmy Savile.
- Deputy T.M. Pitman:
I hope this is not too wide of the mark. Given that in the past the Minister confirmed that one of the officers who took over the investigation at Haute de la Garenne, and I am going to have to use the name because I do not know what his title was, Mr. Gradwell.
The Bailiff :
You do not need to use his name. You can just refer to him as an officer. You can describe his positions.
Deputy T.M. Pitman:
There are so many people who have come and gone that I might infer the wrong person, Sir. It is common knowledge. The Minister had used the name. I do not think it is a problem.
The Bailiff :
This is the officer who was in charge previously?
Deputy T.M. Pitman:
This is the officer who took over and went public on matters after Mr. Power and Mr. Harper. The Bailiff :
Yes, you can use that name.
Deputy T.M. Pitman:
Thank you. Given that one of those officers, Mr. Gradwell, was confirmed by the Minister to have been leaking information during a live child abuse investigation to a U.K. journalist, Mr. Rose, is it not a concern to the Minister what is now coming to light that that journalist was one of the lead detractors - protagonist if you like - in dismissing all the abuse that went on in Wales that has now of course been proved to be true? Does that not concern the Minister in the way that our investigation was closed down and most people would say rubbished?
Senator B.I. Le Marquand:
From the time when I became aware of information which had been provided to the press by a Mr. Gradwell, I made my position quite clear that what he has done was utterly wrong and unprofessional. I am afraid I have no knowledge of the details of the remainder of the question.
- Deputy M.R. Higgins:
I just want to follow up on what the Minister has said. He mentioned obviously that any abuse by Savile would not be covered by Operation Rectangle but obviously with the publicity associated with the Jimmy Savile case, have any further people come forward regarding other forms of abuse and, if so, will the Operation Rectangle investigation be carried on?
[11:15]
Senator B.I. Le Marquand:
It is only a technical point as to whether it is done under the auspices of Rectangle or a separate investigation. It would be done under a separate investigation. If there were allegations which are solely related to the late Mr. Savile, then clearly it would be very difficult to go ahead with a detailed criminal investigation because he cannot be prosecuted. If there were other parties named who were living, then clearly you would have a different situation. But on top of that, of course, we have a situation in which the Metropolitan Police Force is in the process of investigating all matters including those which might only relate to Mr. Savile and the States of Jersey Police are clearly co-operating with that.
- Deputy M.R. Higgins:
Can I just seek clarification on that, Sir? Does that mean, for example, anyone who facilitated Jimmy Savile's visits to Haute de la Garenne and other children's institutions would also be investigated on the access that they had to them?
Senator B.I. Le Marquand:
I think that is too broad. We are getting into operational decisions to be made by the police as to whether there are effectively special grounds to warrant a detailed investigation. Those are clearly operational matters for the police to determine based upon the information which they have. I can confirm that there have been additional allegations made concerning Mr. Savile.
- Deputy M. Tadier :
Can the Minister confirm that in the past complaints were made to the police either under Operation Rectangle or previously about alleged abuse by Mr. Savile - or Sir Jimmy Savile, I guess we should call him - and will these cases be able to be reopened because they were not necessarily investigated for whatever reason? Will they be able to be reopened now that there is fresh evidence coming forward from a variety of sources?
Senator B.I. Le Marquand:
It is my understanding that there was one such allegation made previously and that was made during the ambit of Operation Rectangle. Obviously, if there is additional evidence or there are matters which might involve additional parties, then that is a different situation but, as I say, it is a difficult position for the police to be asked to investigate matters if there is no basis for allegation against a party other than the person who has died. Although as I have said already, that is what the Metropolitan Police are doing and the States of Jersey Police are co-operating with that.
- Deputy T.M. Pitman:
I know I am not being deliberately stupid in not understanding what the Minister has said but if he is saying Operation Rectangle itself could not be reopened because Mr. Savile, et cetera, is dead, I am aware that there are 2 other names that are going to come out soon who are also dead - I believe - celebrities; is the Minister saying, just so I get this quite clear, that if it is living people who allegations are made against, the investigation can be reopened but if they are dead, then there is very little that the police can do? Could he just clarify that? I am not clear on it.
Senator B.I. Le Marquand:
Yes, that is correct. That would be the normal process because the whole purpose of a criminal investigation is with a view to a possible criminal prosecution. You cannot prosecute a person who has died and therefore it is difficult to see the purpose of a criminal investigation in relation to a person who has died. That you might investigate for some other reason possibly but that would not be a useful use of police time in my view.