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3.8. Deputy T.M. Pitman of the Chief Minister regarding his access to the report associated with the suspension of the Dean's Commission case:
Further to concerns raised by a member of the public travelling on the same flight as the Assistant Chief Minister with responsibility for external relations, that he was able to identify details of both the victim and alleged abuser in the suspension of the Dean's Commission case, does the Chief Minister stand by his statement that the only document being read was the Korris Report which does not contain names?
Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):
Sir, I would like to ask my Assistant Minister to act as rapporteur to answer this question. Senator P.M. Bailhache (Assistant Chief Minister - rapporteur):
I would like to be helpful to the Assembly but as the Chief Minister stated on 30th April the only relevant document that I can recall reading on a flight is the independent review of a safeguarding complaint for the Diocese of Winchester published in March which is available to all on the internet.
- Deputy T.M. Pitman:
A supplementary. I have to say I find the answer very hard to take, but perhaps the Assistant Minister could explain to us in his view how a member of the public sitting just opposite him could read the name, and I could read it out but I will not, of the alleged abuser and indeed makes that quite clear in his email, which I am happy to give to any Member of this Assembly, to verify that he did see these documents, what he describes as police documents. How does the Assistant Minister marry that up? Is the member of the public lying?
Senator P.M. Bailhache :
As the Chief Minister was entering the building this morning he was handed by Deputy Shona Pitman a document that purports to be a copy of an email sent by an unidentified person to Deputy Trevor Pitman. I think it is a pity that Deputy Pitman was not willing to show me that document beforehand, because I could have explained to him privately how and why the allegations are inaccurate. The document does contain some information that is not in the public domain. Taken in the round, it gives a fictitious and malicious account of my reading habits on aeroplanes and I am not going to be drawn further on this subject.
- Deputy G.P. Southern :
I am very disappointed to hear that the Minister is not going to be drawn further on this subject, when I have got a question to ask him and his light is on. Can I quote from the document he is referring to that says, in the words of this complainant: "Obviously, certain facts and names are kept strictly confidential from these types of cases but now I, for one, can name the woman in question and others that have involvement, because of this lack of discretion of information being reviewed in a public place." Does he refute that altogether, or only partially?
Senator P.M. Bailhache :
I have already said that the document is fictitious and malicious and I do not propose to make any further comment on its contents.
- Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:
I wonder if the Assistant Chief Minister could just clarify for the Assembly, regardless of documents and whether they are fictitious or not, can he assure us that he did not identify the people involved on that aircraft, either by speaking or by any other means?
Senator P.M. Bailhache :
I cannot envisage any circumstances whereby any member of the public could have obtained from me the confidential information that is contained in the document that Deputy Southern and perhaps others now have.
The Bailiff :
Very well. Do you wish a final question, Deputy Trevor Pitman?
- Deputy T.M. Pitman:
Absolutely, and I have to say I find that slur on a member of the public, and the only reason I retracted his name is because he is scared of the consequences, but perhaps I can persuade him to meet the Chief Minister and then perhaps can I ask will the Assistant Minister do the right thing and resign? It is disgraceful to put that a member of the public who is concerned, has expressed very clear concerns and the Assistant Minister could have read this on the internet, redacted. I would like him to apologise to that member of the public because I think it is disgraceful and it shows the arrogance with which some of our Members in this establishment ...
The Bailiff :
Deputy , you cannot impute improper motives for another Member of the Assembly. Deputy T.M. Pitman:
This is a member of the public who has acted in good faith, concerned at what he could read, and now he is being called a liar. No wonder he is afraid.
The Bailiff :
The Assistant Chief Minister simply stated that he was not reading this document. Deputy G.P. Southern :
Sir, are we, as per the Ministers' Code of Conduct, not supposed to treat all members of the Jersey community with respect and to accuse somebody in public of ...
The Bailiff :
The question is what was the Assistant Chief Minister reading and he said what he was reading and did not disclose the name. That is, as I understand, the simple position. If some other member of the public thinks otherwise then that is for that other member of the public, but the Assistant Chief Minister has given this Assembly his assurance. Do you wish to answer the supplemental question?
Senator P.M. Bailhache : I have nothing to add, Sir.