(9392) Trial resurfacing of La Route de Mont Mado in St. John

2016.04.26

3.11  The Connétable of St. John of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding the trial resurfacing of La Route de Mont Mado in St. John :

Following the trial resurfacing of La Route de Mont Mado in the beautiful Parish of St. John could the Minister provide the results of that trial and detail what studies, if any, were undertaken?

Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence (The Minister for Infrastructure):

I am not going to argue with the Constable, indeed St. John is a beautiful Parish. La Route de Mont Mado was resurfaced last July with micro asphalt as opposed to a more traditional product. Micro asphalt is well proven in the U.K. (United Kingdom), France and the rest of Europe with benefits of speed of installation, a cheaper price per square metre and it extends the underlying road life. The trial is being monitored over a 2-year period and so far it is proving to be successful to date. Background noise and skid resistance testing were both undertaken prior to and after completion of the surface treatment. There was no noticeable increase in the ambient noise but there has been an increase in the skid resistance thus making the road surface safer. A minor defect outside the St. John Recreation Centre has been temporarily patched and is being monitored. However I must make it clear that this failure was caused by an underlying trench failure and not by the micro asphalt.

1. The Connétable of St. John :

Supplementary. As Constable I have had more complaints about this one problem in the Parish than anything else. Will the Minister agree to consult the residents and the users of La Route de Mont Mado before laying any more of this tarmac?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

If the Constable wants to forward on those complaints, obviously with the approval of those individuals ... so far our department has only received one complaint registered on this particular road. We are conducting 2 further trials on different roads on the Island to get a broader view of this type of product. As I have said, it is used extensively throughout the U.K., France and the rest of Europe and when it is coming in at almost a third cheaper than conventional products it is something that we need to look at when our budgets are constrained.

2. Deputy A.D. Lewis :

I was privileged to be invited to Visit Royale in St. John earlier on in the year. I believe you were there as well. We paused outside the Recreation Centre that the Minister referred to a moment ago and inspected the damage there. We walked along the rest of the road and all of the assembled, including the whole of the Court, expressed concerns or observations that the road surface was somewhat rough, extremely rough. Can the Minister just confirm that he feels that the value here outweighs the quality in terms of what people's expectations are of that type of road surface in Jersey? Could he just confirm what is necessary to be done in the future, in terms of cost savings and obtaining value, as against quality?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

You have to look at the whole life value of the product being used. The surface is rougher than conventional tarmac that is why it has a higher resistance and therefore makes it safer for road users because stopping distances are less. We do look at the whole life cost. Micro asphalting extends the life of the road by some 10-plus years and it is some £30 per square metre versus £80 per square metre, so that is a £50 per square metre saving which enables us to cover more of our roads and with our limited budgets that is a good thing.

3. The Deputy of St. John :

With the answers that the Minister has just given, does that include the prices that he has established to us? Does that include the traditional resurfacing of the corners of the road because the micro asphalt machine cannot do the corners?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

That is not true, the micro asphalt machine can do the corners. It was decided not to because that particular road does have a significant number of containerised lorries and it was felt that traditional tarmac should be used on the 2 sharp bends for that reason, but it is comparing apples and apples as opposed to apples and pears. For example, work that we have done recently in the town at St. James, that was a reconstruction and a resurfacing and that amount per square metre was significantly in excess of the £80 that would have been incurred for the Mont Mado product.

4. The Deputy of St. John :

Supplementary. Can the Minister confirm then that what he is comparing in terms of prices and it being significantly cheaper, that it is actually like for like in terms of what has taken place on the road resurfacing?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I can confirm that what we have managed to achieve is to bring in some competition and more choice into the Island. Recently we have been approached by the incumbent provider of asphalt on the Island and they, now, have come to the table and are offering to negotiate better deals with the States. So if nothing else, we have managed to achieve to get better value out of the on-Island contractors.

The Deputy of St. John :

Sorry, the Minister did not answer my question. I just asked if he could confirm if it was like for like. That is all I asked.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Well, the Minister has answered in the way that he has chosen to.

5. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:

Could the Minister undertake just to circulate to States Members a breakdown of the £30 per square metre and the £80 a square metre just to give us an understanding of what the components are that make up those sort of prices?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I will have to find out whether this may or may not be possible because obviously we are in competitive tendering for all our roadworks and so providing that I can do that in a way that does not bias our future tenders I am happy to do so.

6. Deputy D. Johnson of St. Mary :

This matter has already been brought to the attention of the Scrutiny Panel so may I ask the Minister to keep the panel informed of developments and results of trials and perhaps even release to us the confidential information to which he has just referred.

Deputy E.J. Noel:

Very happy to do so.

7. The Connétable of St. John :

The Minister talks about apples and pears all the time and I am afraid he has got his fruit basket mixed up. The surface that took place at La Route de Mont Mado did not include any [Interruption] ... thank you, Chief Minister. [Laughter] Did not include any road reconstruction. It was merely a thin film of surface across the top. As a Parish Constable I get quotes for roads to be surfaced and they are of a higher quality and a very much lower price, and I think that this needs thorough investigation. Will you please undertake to do so?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

We monitor and control all of our road resurfacing and I am afraid the Constable is incorrect in his assumptions. The Parishes, from what I am led to believe, do a 25 millimetre top coat removal or a 25 millimetre replacement whereas a standard minor road for the Department of Infrastructure will do 50 millimetres of top coat removal and 50 millimetres back again. It depends on what needs to be done on the road. If the underlying road needs significant work then obviously that needs to take place. We are looking at using micro asphalt solutions to extend the life of roads where they do not need any major or significant reconstruction.

The Connétable of St. John :

The Minister was factually incorrect. In St. John we are looking at 40 millimetres ... The Deputy Bailiff :

Connétable , I repeat that if the Chair is speaking Members stop speaking and sit down. That is clearly within Standing Orders. It is not an invention of my own. You have asked your final supplementary. The Minister had answered it in the way that he wished. There is no opportunity to make comment upon the Minister's answer. Thank you.

The Connétable of St. John :

Can I correct a ...

The Deputy Bailiff :

No, Connétable , that is the end. This is question time.

Deputy M. Tadier :

Can I raise a point of order? It is correct that if the Constable of St. John believes that the Minister has inadvertently misled the House that he can raise a point of order and then perhaps state what he thinks is being misleading. Is that not correct?

The Deputy Bailiff :

Well, in the event of a debate that certainly would be the case. In question time it would be open, I think, to the questioner during the course of the questioning to raise that point but that is something I have to consider on the merits from time to time but we have left that question behind us, Deputy , at this point.

Deputy M. Tadier :

So a further point. It is a point of order it seems to me that if you only become aware of it at the end of your supplementary question when the answer is being given it seems strange to send the message out that it is okay to mislead the Assembly during question time but not during a debate even if you are doing that. I am just obviously standing here on behalf of what one might expect from a reasonably minded Back-Bencher.

The Deputy Bailiff :

I am not going to make a ruling on that. I do not think it calls for a ruling on any specific point.