9659 The recruitment of specialist secondary school teachers

5.1   Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade of the Minister for Education regarding the recruitment of specialist secondary school teachers:

What evidence, if any, does the Minister have that the challenges to secondary school teacher recruitment in the United Kingdom in many specialist areas have eased, and if none, what incentives are there in place to attract such teachers to come and work in Jersey?

Deputy R.G. Bryans of St. Helier (The Minister for Education):

Thank you to the Deputy . The school workforce census is the main source of information of school staffing in England and its latest figures: "Show there are reasons to be cheerful", that is a quote from them. Teacher numbers are up overall and there was a slight increase in the number of recruits. The number of teachers in history, English and P.E. (Physical Education) is buoyant. Our Jersey Graduate Teacher Training Programme is still successful with a further 11 trainees currently enrolled and training for secondary posts in science, English, modern foreign languages and other subjects. In total, more than 60 candidates have so far completed the training. The challenge is certainly not over, particularly in maths and physics, but more efforts are being made to attract trainees into the profession in the U.K. (United Kingdom) and Jersey stands to benefit if that is successful. Jersey schools are fully staffed at the moment with only a small number of vacancies. There are currently no financial incentives for teachers other than the inflated N.Q.T. (Newly Qualified Teachers) starting wage but Jersey offers shorter days, a shorter term, lower taxes for higher earners and an attractive lifestyle.

1. Deputy M. Tadier :

I thank the Minister for that answer. Does he accept that the information he has given in the written question, although it would be nice to have the figures in the table as well, suggests that he is not comparing like to like when saying that Jersey compares well with the starting wage for inner London? He says in that written answer that Jersey effectively starts all teachers on level 3 because of the requirement for all teachers to have 2:2 grade degree or above but yet he proceeds to compare the figures to the level 1 figures in inner London rather than the level 3 comparable figures which would be much higher than the starting wage for Jersey. So could he explain why he is being very selective with his use of figures which may unintentionally mislead Members of this Assembly and the public?

Deputy R.G. Bryans:

Yes, I think I have tried to explain this a few times. Since, I think it was 2000, wages were inflated to deal with a recruitment problem back then and they have never been tackled since that point. Over the last 4 years the starting salary for a teacher in Jersey has been £38,000; that is what I was relating to. So it is comparable in the sense that if you are starting in the U.K. you start on level 1 but here you start on a level 3.

2. Deputy A.D. Lewis of St. Helier :

I would just be curious if the Minister could answer as to what incentives are given to local existing staff to either retrain or further develop their skills? So if there is a staffing shortage in certain areas we can perhaps mitigate from within.

Deputy R.G. Bryans:

Could I just clarify, are you talking about actual teachers themselves? Deputy A.D. Lewis :

Yes.

Deputy R.G. Bryans:

There is no particular incentive. I mean I have just talked about the Jersey Graduate Teachers Programme which has been very successful particularly in identifying areas of concerns that we have got and that is what we have directed people who are upskilling and coming out of various occupations. I spoke to one just a couple of weeks ago who has been working in the Civil Service and has decided to join teaching and had made a conscious decision, looking at the circumstances that we find ourselves in, to apply as a maths teacher. So people are aware of the situation we are in and identifying that area.

3. Deputy A.D. Lewis :

Supplementary. Does the Minister not agree that there should be some kind of contractual obligation among the staff to train, retrain and continue to develop their skills? Is there a contract obligation to do that?

Deputy R.G. Bryans:

Staff are constantly retraining their skills and we have all manner of programmes to identify that; leadership programmes of one form or another. Just to go back to the Jersey Graduate thing, I think one of the things that is important to mention, which I did not mention earlier, is that we have a retention rate of Jersey graduate teachers of 86 per cent, which is quite phenomenal really when you consider it. So once they are trained up and once they go in to the schools they remain there.

4. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Is it not the case that in the majority of parts of the U.K., including inner London, a newly qualified teacher will enter the salary point at 3 if they have a 2:2, an Honours degree, or above? Is that not the case elsewhere as well as Jersey and should the Minister not be comparing like with like and comparing entry point 3 with entry point 3?

Deputy R.G. Bryans:

The Deputy is quite correct. If there is an opportunity for students on a degree level to go in at a certain point that is what happens in the U.K. What I was trying to illustrate is exactly what happens in our schools at this moment in time.

5. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Does the Minister accept that he was unintentionally misleading the House when he did not compare entry point 3 with entry point 3?

Deputy R.G. Bryans:

No, I was not misleading the House. What I was trying to explain to the Assembly, and I have done it several times and will keep doing it, the situation we have in Jersey is that when degree students enter the Jersey education system; over the last 4 years we have nobody, not one person, who has entered on a newly qualified teachers level as coming in anything lower than 3.

6. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of St. Saviour :

What would the starting salary be at level 1 for a new teacher coming into the profession in Jersey who did not achieve a second class degree or above?

Deputy R.G. Bryans:

It would be around £33,000.

7. Deputy M. Tadier :

I think we have finally teased [Interruption] ... put it back to the Minister. Does he accept that a level 3 Jersey teacher which, in his answer, says is with 2:2 degree, which is what they will be necessarily because that is a requirement, compared to an inner London teacher at £32,400, under the Minister's proposals to reduce that salary by £8,000 the Jersey teacher will be worse off by £2,104 a year compared to the inner city teacher on the same 2:2 degree when starting off in teaching?

Deputy R.G. Bryans:

As I think the Deputy is aware, when the situation has prevailed, when the negotiations are entered into with regard to the teacher salary, what we were doing by advising the Assembly, and everybody else, that we have this inflated situation was that this is the proposal for both the unions and S.E.B. (States Employment Board) and our officers to work together to, if possible, reduce the salary down to something akin to £30,000. If we were to do nothing more than reduce it down to the level 1, which is what everybody is discussing, we would still be reducing that down by about £6,000.

Deputy M. Tadier : Point of order, sir. The Deputy Bailiff :

No, I am sorry, Deputy . That was a final supplementary. Point of order; what ruling do you want me to make?

Deputy M. Tadier :

I would like a ruling because I think the Minister is obfuscating and under the Code of Conduct he is required to give open and straight answers. I believe that was a simple yes and no answer and when a Minister cannot answer that question in such a fashion I do not think it does much for the repute of this Assembly and especially not the Council of Ministers.

The Deputy Bailiff :

I do not think that that is a matter on which I can make a ruling. How the Minister answers a question is a matter for him, provided it is within reasonable parameters.