Public Accounts Committee - Approved Committee Minutes - 19 March 2007

PM/vnl/108.07 44

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE (14th Meeting)

19th March 2007

PART A

All members were present.

Deputy S.C. Ferguson Senator J.L. Perchard Connétable D.J. Murphy Deputy A. Breckon Deputy J.G. Reed R. Brignell A. Grimes

In attendance -

C. Swinson, O.B.E., Comptroller and Auditor General

P. Monamy, Clear to the Public Accounts Committee

Note: The Minutes of this meeting comprise Part A only.

Minutes: format A1. The Committee, having considered the format in which its Minutes were to be under Code of produced having regard to the provisions of the Code of Practice on Public Access Practice on to Official Information, concluded that wherever possible its Minutes should be Public Access to produced under Part A' of the said Code of Practice, namely that in accordance Official with the presumption of openness maximum disclosure would be allowed. It was Information. further agreed that, if necessary, Minutes of discussion of items which included 512/1(7) information that was exempt from disclosure would be recorded under Part B' of

the Code.

Notes of A2. The  Notes of the  meeting  of the  Chairman and  members  of  the  Public inquorate Accounts Committee held on 29th January 2007, having been previously circulated, meeting held on were taken as read and were confirmed.

29.03.07.

Review of the A3. The Committee, with reference to item A3 of the Notes of a Meeting of the first 12 months of Chairman and Members held on 26th February 2007, considered a request from the Ministerial Privileges  and  Procedures  Committee  for  the  collective  views  of  the  Public government: Accounts Committee on any matters covered by the "Review of the first 12 months P.P.C. Sub- of Ministerial government."

Committee -

comments. The Committee recognised that it was not as close to the practicalities surrounding 465/1(77) Ministerial government as were the Scrutiny Panels. However, it was accepted that there  was  merit  in  the  Committee  maintaining  a  separate  identity  to  Scrutiny

generally. It was accepted that whilst it was only possible for the Committee to measure against expectations expressed, there was now a stronger theme around such issues, which were taken far more seriously than hitherto. It was clear that the Committee's involvement tended to be on the basis of a historical examination of a given  scenario. Although  some  matters  were  no  longer  submitted  to  detailed consideration by the States, this was as a consequence of the now sharper' focus and streamlined decision-making process under the new system of government. In particular, it was considered that the advent of the Comptroller and Auditor General had  raised  the  profile  of  certain  issues  and  the  Committee  agreed  that  it  was essential that it should follow-up those matters upon which it had expressed an interest.

The Chairman undertook to convey members' views to the Privileges and Procedures Committee in due course.

Parish of St. A4. The Committee received an oral report from the Chairman regarding an Helier: proposed approach  from  St.  Helier  Town   Hall  suggesting  that  the  Public  Accounts review of Committee might review the proposed increase in the registration fees for births, registration fees. marriages and deaths.

512/1(9)

The Committee concluded that fee levels was not a matter which it would wish to consider in isolation and, in any event, was not a matter within its remit. It was agreed that it would be preferable for the Parish to approach the Internal Audit Department at Treasury and Resources seeking a review of the joint operation of the St. Helier and the States Registrar's departments. It was further suggested that the States Computer Services Department might be able to advise the Parish on an economic programme to achieve the computerisation of the Registrar's systems, which were understood to be entirely manual and paper-based.

The Chairman undertook to respond to the Parish of St. Helier in due course.

Comptroller and A5. The Committee received an oral report from the Comptroller and Auditor Auditor General: General regarding the under-mentioned work currently in hand and noted that - report.

512/1(8) (a) two  reports  had  been  issued,  one  regarding  the  Jersey  Financial

Services Commission (JFSC) and the other on the Jersey Overseas Aid Commission  (JOAC). It  was  noted  that  there  were  differences  in approach as between the JFSC and the United Kingdom Financial Services  Authority. It  was  noted  that  there  might  be  merit  in discussions being held between the JFSC and the industry. It was recognised that there was scope for further use by JFSC of information technology,  with  the  Commission's  website  considered  to  be somewhat more difficult to use than that maintained by competitive jurisdictions, namely Guernsey and the Isle of Man. As regards the JOAC report, this had been published as a note rather than involving an oral exchange of views at a hearing which might then have been reported on. It was recognised that an anomaly existed whereby the Public Finances (Jersey) Law 2005 did not encompass the JOAC and that,  consequently,  there  was  no  Accounting  Officer  for  the Commission. It was agreed that JOAC needed to be brought within States' financial controls;

2. a further brief paper (comprising statistical information only) was to be published  on  20th  March  2007  which  would  compare  actual government expenditure with what had been planned for the period, and  which  would  also  compare  movements  in  governmental expenditure with the Jersey Retail Price Index (RPI). The Committee noted that this information would demonstrate that in the early years after  2000,  States' budgeting  had  become  tighter  (in  2000,  actual expenditure had been below the level of planned spending), although in  2006  it  had  once  again  risen  above  RPI,  which  happened  to correspond with the advent of the Council of Ministers under the new arrangements. The Comptroller and Auditor General indicated that, as a  consequence  of  the  recent  changes  arising  from  the  move  to Ministerial government, it had been difficult to produce information regarding  trends  in  expenditure. Consequently,  it  appeared  that lessons remained to be learned by the Council of Ministers. Whereas it was considered that most expenditure had already been thought out at  officer  level  (notably  the  Corporate  Management  Board),  the

Committee recognised that a hearing was not to be held prior to the

publication of the States Accounts for 2006 in due course;

3. a paper would be published shortly in relation to Nursery Education, the States' approach to which subject had commenced in 1983. The Committee noted that the policy stance of the former Education, Sport and Culture Committee had been based on the creation of further public demand for such services without future expenditure having been forecasted;
4. various exercises which would be completed by the end of March 2007 included–

1. corporate governance at the Jersey Opera House;
2. capitalisation funds, in respect of which expenditure criteria were to be re-examined. In particular, expenditure relating to the Law Officers', Viscount's and Judicial Greffe Departments was to be studied, given that some posts were currently being funded on a time-limited basis. It was noted that the Criminal Offences Confiscation Fund and the Drug Trafficking Confiscation Fund were the largest of the funds to be examined, although there were some 152 other funds which would also be examined in due course. In addition, sums of money were also held by the Viscount pending the direction of the Royal Court as to their disposition. The Committee noted the circumstances in which information previously provided had been incomplete, arising from a lack of knowledge of the former "Millennium" financial information system. Some issues had also arisen regarding the investment of assets, given that under the Public Finances (Jersey) Law 2005 such investments should be in cash deposit accounts;

5. another exercise in the course of progress was a review of the major States' pension schemes, including the Public Employees Contributory Retirement Scheme (PECRS) and the Teachers' Superannuation Fund. The Committee agreed that it might wish to consider the conclusions arising from this work in due course;
6. an exercise due for completion in June or July 2007 was a major review of the Planning and Environment Department - which was to be the first department to undergo such examination. The capability of the department to deliver those policies with which it was charged would be assessed;
7. the annual report of the Comptroller and Auditor General was in the course of preparation, and it was noted that this would include reference to the implications arising from those reports issued during the year which had commented on various matters. It was agreed that the publication of the annual report could act as a platform from which discussion might be launched with the States Treasury regarding the progress being made towards the introduction of Generally Accepted Accounting Practice (GAAP) for the States Accounts in future. Rather than producing a separate annual report for the Public Accounts Committee, consideration would be given to including in the annual report of the Comptroller and Auditor General a comment on each of the topics covered. The Committee considered that there would be merit in the production of a quarterly report by the Chairman, which report would be referred to the Comptroller and Auditor General for comment prior to publication.

Property Services A6. The Committee considered the frustration expressed by a number of members Department: regarding the actions of the Property Services Department, including the recent information on proposals for the disposal of certain sites throughout the Island- including Mont processes and Mado quarry, the former Jersey College for Girls site and the former Sunshine procedures Hotel site.

adopted for the

disposal of It was agreed that it would be useful for the Committee to be provided with any property. checklist of processes and procedures followed by the department when a property 1446/4(2) was identified for sale, as well as an outline of the thought processes underlying the

procedures - including a note on obtaining commercially realistic valuations.

The  Chairman  undertook  to  write  to  the  Director  of  Property  Holdings accordingly, and also to enquire as to the progress being made with the overall establishment of the Jersey Property Holdings structure.