Chairmen's Committee - Approved Committee Minutes - 25 April 2008

Present

Deputy S C Ferguson, President

Deputy R G Le Hérissier, Vice-President Deputy R C Duhamel

Deputy A. Breckon

Deputy G P Southern

Deputy D.W. Mezbourian

Deputy J G Reed (Item 5 to end)

Apologies

Absent

In attendance

Deputy F.J. Hill, B.E.M. (Item 6 only)

Mrs K. Tremellen-Frost, Scrutiny Manager Mr M. Dransfield, Scrutiny Officer

Ref Back

Agenda matter

Action

1. Minutes

The Minutes of 28th March 2008 and 4th, 7th, 8th April 2008 with one minor amendment, having been approved, were signed accordingly.

2. Action Update

The action update was noted. Deputy Ferguson agreed to circulate legal advice received from a third party which had been provided to the PAC.

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3. Financial Matters

The first quarterly financial report was received and noted.

The President identified that resources could be pooled in the event that one or more Panels were likely to overspend. However, the Committee was advised that approximately £92,000 remained in the general budget.

Subsequent to a request regarding the possibility of Scrutiny Panel Members  using  the  Civil  Service  Travel  Policy  as  guidelines  for expenditure,  the  Committee  was  advised  that  the  Greffier  of  the States  had  had  some  concerns  regarding  expense  claims  for entertainment. Whilst it was accepted that Members would need to host  guests  both  on  and/or  off-Island,  it  was  a  question  of reasonableness of expenditure of public money. The Committee was advised  that  draft  guidelines  were  being  prepared  which  would subsequently be put to the Committee.

The  Committee  requested  some  name  changes  on  the  financial spreadsheets.

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4. Panel Reports

The  Committee  considered  the  Panel  and  Public  Accounts Committee's  monthly  reports  and  noted  the  following  matters additional to those included on the Panel reports:

Corporate Services

The  Committee  considered  whether  it  would  be  appropriate  to consider employment figures as part of the Migration review. It was agreed that the Sub-Panel would consider this at a future meeting.

The  Committee  considered  the  situation  regarding  the  draft  Civil Aviation  (Jersey)  Law  and  expressed  concern  that  it  had  been transferred from the Economic Development Department to the Home Affairs  Department  and  subsequently  to  the  Chief  Ministers' Department.

Economic Affairs

The Committee noted that the Panel considered the JCRA report in respect of the Retail Strategy to be of poor quality.

Education and Home Affairs

Review of Early Years Education and Care - report writing ongoing

Connex contract Legal advice was being sought in relation to the Connex contract. Subsequent to a private hearing with the Transport and Technical Services Minister a report would be prepared once the Waste Management Exhibition and work on the Annual Business Plan had been completed.

Health, Social Security and Housing

The  Committee  noted  that  statistics  from  the  Social  Security Department were awaited. It was also noted that that Department was currently extremely busy due to a back-log of income support work.

PAC  

The Comptroller and Auditor General's report on the Spending Review

was scheduled to be published between 8th-10th May 2008.

There had been some difficulties experienced in acquiring information from Harbour Officers in that the Assistant Minister had requested to be copied into all requests.

04.04.08 Item 1

5. Annual Business Plan

There had been some difficulties in arranging meetings with Ministers to meet the tight timescale. The Committee recalled that it had been agreed to forward Panel comments to the Scrutiny Manager by 25th April and a covering paper would be prepared the week of 28th for forwarding to the Council of Ministers before the end of that week.

The Committee discussed the issue that it should be the work of Ministers to make decisions around and upon the Annual Business Plan, and not expect Scrutiny to undertake work on their behalf.

It was noted that due to the commitment to the Waste Exhibition that the  Environment  Panel's  comments  on  the  Annual  Business  Plan would follow. It was also noted that the Education and Home Affairs Panel review was ongoing. It appeared that public consultation on the matter  was  apparently  under  the  Chief  Minister's  Department,  as opposed  to  falling  under  the  responsibility  of  each  individual Department. There was some concern expressed in general about the quality of responses from Ministers and whether scrutiny of the matter  was  valuable.  Work  of  the  Economic  Affairs  Panel  was ongoing, although identifying a date for the Panel to meet the Minister had proved difficult.

The Committee recalled the meeting with the Council of Ministers to be held on 15th May at 2.30pm.

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28.03.08 Item 12

6. Scrutiny of possible violations of the Human Rights (Jersey) Law 200

The Committee welcomed Deputy F.J. Hill, B.E.M. to the meeting to further consider the Scrutiny of Human Rights issues following his visit to the Joint Select Committee of the House of Commons and the House of Lords.

The  Committee  considered   Deputy  Hill's  concerns  that  there  was insufficient scrutiny of Human Rights compliance and that he believed that this must be undertaken; the question was as to how it would be best  undertaken.  The  options  of  whether  existing  Panels  should incorporate  this  into  their  remit  or  another  Scrutiny  Panel  be established  to  undertake  this  was  considered.  The  Committee explained that Panels already had a full work-load and were under- resourced given the amount of work they needed to undertake.

The Committee also explained that any scrutiny of Human Rights would require access to the legal advice provided to Ministers to understand the issues behind the final decision. Given that the States had adopted the amendment of the Council of Ministers to the Code of Practice for Scrutiny Panels and the Public Accounts Committee, no access to the legal advice given would be permitted.

It also noted that during 2007 there had been a considerable number of Human Rights Compliancy Statements and questioned how either existing Panels or a stand-alone Panel would manage this.

It  further  considered  the  fact  that  it  was  the  responsibility  of  the Executive to undertake a thorough piece of work through the Law Officers Department in identifying Human Rights Compliancy. It was not  the  rôle  of  scrutiny  to  undertake  this  work  on  their  behalf. Furthermore, it noted that the Joint Select Committee had dedicated legal advice support which was not the case in Jersey as such advice was funded out of its own budget.

The Committee agreed that the best way forward would be to amend Article 16 of the States of Jersey Law so that Ministers were obliged to give  a  full  explanation  of  the  reasons  behind  the  acceptance  or otherwise of Human Rights Compliancy.

Deputy Hill agreed that he would consider further a way forward and advised the Committee that he would be attending on the Privileges and Procedures Committee on 7th May in respect of the matter.

Deputy Hill withdrew from the meeting.

7. Machinery of Government Reforms Report: Recommendations 19 and 20

The  Committee  noted  updated  Panel  comments  on Recommendations 19 and 20 of the MOGR Report and agreed to respond to the Privileges and Procedures Committee stating that the matter would be reviewed by the Chairmen's Committee itself.

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28.03.08 Item 6

8.  Code  of  Practice,  legal  advice,  Panel  remit  of Departments/topics.

The  Committee  considered  difficulties  that  States  Members  were experiencing in fulfilling their rôle as legislators. It was considered that without access to all the information, including the legal advice given, that  they  were  being  requested  to  make  serious  decisions  about legislative matters when the full facts were being denied to them.

Further consideration was given as to how best approach matters such  as  the  Bovine  Semen  Importation  Regulations  and  the  Civil Aviation Order. These matters, along with others had been moved from one Department to another, eventually being transferred to the Chief Ministers' Department. The Committee considered the apparent restriction  on  Panels  for  them  to  scrutinise  matters  only  being developed within the Department to which that Panel was allocated. It was agreed that the matter of importance within the Code of Practice was that the States had agreed that Scrutiny Panels should have access to all information within their topic areas irrespective of which Department was progressing a certain matter.

28.03.08 Item 11

9. Powers of Panels to co-opt Members.

The Committee considered a draft report in respect of its previous agreement to proceed with the preparation to lodge a report in respect of the need for powers of co-option of other non-Executive Members onto Scrutiny Panels. It was agreed that it should be lodged "au

Greffe" in the name of the Chairman's Committee. It was also agreed to advise the Privileges and Procedures Committee of the decision. Deputy Duhamel recorded his dissent on the decision to pursue the principle of co-option and on the decision that it should be lodged in the name of the Chairmen's Committee.

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28.03.08 Item 8

10. Working Practices Internal Review/Scrutiny successes

The  President  outlined  the  line  management  structure  within  the States Greffe and Scrutiny and reminded Chairmen that the officers were not Panel Officers but Scrutiny Officers within the management structure of the States Greffe who were allocated to reviews as lead officers.

It  was  agreed  that  the  President,   Deputy  President  and  Scrutiny Manager  would  progress  the  matter  in  respect  of  the  successes paper. The  working  practices  document  will  be  separated  and circulated  to  all  Scrutiny  Panel  Members,  advising  them  that  a discussion on working practices shall subsequently be held on an away day.

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11. Staffing

The Committee noted that, in view of prolonged staff absence and a heavy Environment Panel workload, additional support had become available to assist the Scrutiny Officer leading on the Waste Review. This  was  for  a  short  period  only.  An  officer  currently  supporting another Panel had indicated capacity to assist the Economic Affairs Panel  to  finalise  its  Jersey  Finance  Limited  report  during  officer absence. Staffing for this Panel would be resolved on 12th May. It was also noted that any additional support which might be able to be provided at any time for scrutiny would be for use by the Scrutiny Officers and not Panels as such support would not be employed on a full-time basis, and with no intention of training in the rôle of Scrutiny Officer.