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Environment - Approved Panel Minutes - 10 April 2008

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Environment Scrutiny Panel

PUBLIC MEETING Record of Meeting

Date: 10th April 2008 Meeting Number: 76

 

Present

Deputy R.C. Duhamel (Chairman) (RD) Connétable K. A. Le Brun of St Mary (KB) Deputy P. V. F. Le Claire (PLC)

Apologies

Connétable A. S. Crowcroft (SC) Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en (CSW)

Absent

 

In attendance

Mr. M. Roscouet, Assistant Director - Building Control

Mr M. Robbins, Scrutiny Officer Mr W. Millow , Scrutiny Officer

 

Ref Back

Agenda matter

Action

1. 17/03/2008, Item 1

Bovine Semen Imports.

The  Panel  considered  the  current  situation  in  relation  to  the proposed legislation regarding importation of bovine semen.

The Panel noted that Draft European Communities Legislation (Implementation)(Bovine  Semen)(Jersey)  Regulations  200- (P.43/2008) had been lodged by the Chief Minister and not the Minister  for  Planning  and  Environment.   The  Panel,  with reference to Standing Orders 72 and 79, considered the potential implications  this  had  for  the  Panel's  ability  to  scrutinise  the legislation and whether the situation highlighted a need to amend Standing Orders. It was noted that there was insufficient time to amend Standing Orders ahead of the debate on P.43/2008. The Panel also considered whether it should speak to H.M. Solicitor General about the lack of clarity within current procedures.

The Panel noted that correspondence had been received by all States  Members  from  Mr.  D.  Quenault  in  which  it  had  been conveyed  that  a  majority  of  cattle  farmers  opposed  the importation of bovine semen. Consideration was given to the potential impact of adopting the proposed legislation; it was noted that it raised legal, environmental and economic issues. The Panel  considered  whether  it  should  undertake  work  on  the legislation and noted that due to its other work commitments, it would not be able to undertake any such work before May 2008.

The  Panel  was  informed  that  the  Chairman  would  meet  the Privileges and Procedures Committee (PPC) on 18th April 2008 following a complaint against the Chairman that the Committee had received.

 

 

It was agreed that the Chairman would raise the possible need to amend Standing Orders with PPC. It was further agreed that a statement would be made to the States Assembly on 29th April 2008 regardless of whether PPC took the view that Standing Orders  should  be  amended. Ahead  of  this  statement,  the Chairman would also speak to the Greffier of the States. It was subsequently agreed that the Panel would not seek to speak to H.M. Solicitor General at this time.

RD. KLB. PLC.

 

2.

20/03/2008, Item 9

20/03/2008, item 11f

Records of Meetings.

The Panel approved the record of its meeting of 17th March 2008. In relation to the record of its meeting of 20th March 2008, the Panel amended the record to clarify the following:

  • It  had  been  agreed  that  the  Chairman  would  respond  in writing to a member of the public who had raised issues relating to the Bellozanne Waste Plant.
  • The Panel had welcomed an initiative for charging for plastic carrier bags as a shot in the arm for the Panel's argument about the actual projected waste arisings in the Island.

The Panel deferred consideration of the amended record to its next meeting.

RD. KLB. PLC.

 

3.

Matters Arising.

The Panel noted that it had been suggested that it provide a presentation to the Comité des Connétable s on 9th June 2008. It was further noted that the Comité had received a presentation from the Department of Transport and Technical Services on 7th April 2008 at which the matter of composting sites had been discussed. The Panel was advised by Connétable K.A. Le Brun of the discussions. It was subsequently informed that Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire was minded to table questions to the Minister on that matter; he was requested to share any such questions with the  Panel  before  doing  so. The  Panel  noted  that  a  second meeting between the Comité and Department would be held on 9th June 2008 and it was therefore agreed that the Panel would proceed with its own presentation to the Comité on that date.

The Panel noted receipt of the record of the Council of Ministers meeting of 7th February 2008 as well as the summary of the Council of Ministers meeting of 27th March 2008.

RD. KLB. PLC.

 

4.

Building Bye-Laws.

The  Panel  received  Mr.  M.  Roscouet,  Assistant  Director  – Building Control, for a presentation on proposed amendments to the Building Bye-Laws. It was noted that paperwork had been received by the Panel ahead of the presentation.

The Panel was informed of the proposals that Part 11 of the Bye-

 

 

Laws be updated to bring them further in line with European standards and that guidance documentation would be produced in relation to the following:

  • New dwellings
  • Extensions and alterations to existing dwellings
  • Other new buildings
  • Extensions and alterations to other existing buildings

It  was  noted  that  implementation  of  the  amended  Bye-Laws would  introduce  a  standard  procedure  whereby  the  energy efficiency of buildings would be known. The intention was that newly constructed dwellings would be 20% more energy efficient than a notional building that would be established as a standard for comparative purposes; within the overall target of 20%, there would be flexibility within the manner in which that target could be achieved. The notional standard was based upon a building heated electrically and the primary aim in setting such targets was  to  reduce  CO emissions  (measured  in  kg/m2). For

2

commercial buildings, the aim would be to increase efficiency by 23   28%. For  work  undertaken  on  existing  commercial buildings, the amended Bye-Laws would establish a need for consequential improvements whereby at the time of any new alteration  or  extension,  some  work  on  improving  the  existing building fabric would be required.

Consideration was given to the current standards of efficiency in Jersey and how these standards compared to those used in the United Kingdom (UK) and Europe. It was noted that standards in the Island were not too bad at present but that Jersey was not leading the way. One difficulty facing Jersey in any attempt to so lead  the  way  was  that  industry  did  not  produce  materials specifically  for  the  Island's  needs  (for  example,  insulation materials). There were also potential difficulties for the Island to follow directly developments in Europe rather than the UK; for instance, there were language difficulties although improvements were being made in that area. Amending Part 11 of the Bye- Laws would mean that Jersey met the appropriate EU directives and that its standards would be higher than those found in the UK but they would remain lower than best EU practice.

It was noted that the Bye-Laws would establish standards but would not dictate precisely how those standards had to be met. The  Panel  was  advised  that  Building  Control  could  feasibly provide an advisory and guidance service to the public although the current level of resources would make such an undertaking difficult to achieve. Building Control currently comprised a staff of 12  people,  qualified  as  Chartered  Surveyors,  who  undertook approximately 16,000 inspections each year.

Consideration was given to the relationship between minimising air leakage within a building (testing of which would result from amending Part 11 of the Bye-Laws) and ventilation. The Panel was  informed  that  amendments  to  Part  5  of  the  Bye-Laws (relating to ventilation) had also been proposed. It was noted that ventilation would need to be controllable.

It  was  noted  that  notifications  would  be  placed  within  new

 

 

dwellings  to  indicate  the  energy  rating  of  the  building. Consideration  had  not  yet  been  given  to  the  format  of  the notification or the grading system that would eventually be used.

The Panel was informed that 30 – 40% of planning applications related to extensions or alterations of existing buildings and that these would be covered by the proposed amendments to Part 11 of the Bye-Laws. It was noted that provision would be made within the Bye-Laws for historic buildings that would allow for a balance to be struck between improving energy efficiency and maintaining the character of the building: each case would be judged upon its merits.

Consideration was given to when the use of a building changed, for instance from a hotel to lodgings. The Panel was informed that changes of use were covered by Part 6 of the Bye-Laws and that standards had improved in this area since 1997.

Consideration was given to whether amendments to Part 11 of the Bye-Laws should include retrospective provisions and also to the  impact  that  the  amendments  would  have  on  owners  of existing buildings. It was noted that the amendments could lead to more awareness of energy efficiency issues amongst existing owners. The new legislation would therefore provide information but not compulsion and whilst it would engender extra costs for people, this in turn would result in savings in due course.

The Panel considered whether it would wish to scrutinise the proposed  amendments  to  Part  11  of  the  Bye-Laws. It  was advised that it was possible to try to do too much too soon but that the amendments represented a significant step. The Panel questioned  whether  the  proposals  could  include  provision whereby  testing  of  any  building  listed  for  sale  would  be obligatory. It was noted that the proposals did not include such provision and that it would be difficult to include retrospective provision within the Bye-Laws. However, such provision could potentially be included within future energy policy.

Under the amended Bye-Laws, information would need to be submitted  to  Building  Control  at  key  stages  of  a  building's construction and development. There would be no manpower implications for Building Control in this requirement as designers were already obliged to provide other information for assessment. There  would  potentially  be  more  work,  however, for  planning applicants.

It  was  noted  that  there  had  been  debates  in  the  UK  over regulation of existing buildings, in particular regarding the Home Information Packs that had been mooted in recent times. The Panel was advised that there were issues to explore regarding the regulation of standards and whether this should entail self- certification or public regulation; lessons from other jurisdictions such as Norway suggested there had been a move away from self-certification.

The Panel was informed that certification of electrical installations had been required since 2002, a measure that had not yet been

 

 

introduced in the UK.

The  Panel  agreed  that  it  would  not  review  the  proposed amendments to Part 11 of the Bye-Laws and that it would inform the  Minister  for  Planning  and  Environment  of  its  enthusiastic support for the proposed measures. It was further agreed that the Panel would subsequently undertake work on matters not included within the current proposals which it had considered during the presentation, for instance the possibility of requiring energy surveys of all buildings undergoing transaction. It was noted that Deputy Le Claire would undertake work on this matter and endeavour to gather pertinent information.

RD. KLB. PLC.

 

5

Drainage (Jersey) Law 2005

The Panel noted receipt of correspondence from a member of the public  regarding  a  change  of  policy  in  relation  to  Drainage (Jersey) Law 2005; the change of policy had been confirmed in a Ministerial Decision by the Minister for Transport and Technical Services on 23rd November 2007. The decision related to an amendment  to  Drainage  Law  policy  in  respect  of  private developments and concerned Article 10 of the Law. It was noted that Senator B.E. Shenton had lodged a proposition that sought to have that Ministerial Decision rescinded.

The Panel agreed to defer consideration of this matter. It was further agreed that, to ensure the Panel was aware of both sides of the issue, meetings would be arranged with the Minister and with Senator Shenton towards the end of May 2008. It was noted that these meetings would need to occur before the debate on Senator Shenton's proposition was held.

RD. KLB. PLC.

 

6.

Annual Business Plan.

The Panel noted that it had been asked to contribute before the end of April 2008 towards a document that would be despatched by  the  Chairmen's  Committee  to  the  Council  of  Ministers  on behalf of all Scrutiny Panels. It was further noted that Panels had been requested to consider the funding pressures outlined in the draft proposals for the 2009 Annual Business Plan. The draft proposals included one pressure relating to the Department of Transport and Technical Services (Tipping Fees). One pressure entitled Urban Regeneration' had been placed within the Chief Minister's remit although it was noted that it was potentially of relevance to the Panel's purview.

The Panel was advised that the Chairmen's Committee had met the Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG) on 7th April 2008. It was further advised that the C&AG had spoken about pension schemes for States' employees and the possibility that financial management within the States could be centralised. It had also been  noted  at  that  meeting  that  smaller  Departments  might effectively be underfunded and that potential savings within larger Departments, whilst perhaps possible, would engender political

 

 

debate. It was noted that the Chairman had discussed with the C&AG potential savings within the Departments of Planning and Environment and Transport and Technical Services but that the C&AG did not intend to look into the specific issues raised by the Chairman.

The Panel considered whether it would wish to meet the two Ministers within its remit about the draft proposals and agreed to invite them to a meeting on 17th April 2008.

RD. KLB. PLC.

 

7.

Future Meetings

The Panel agreed it would meet briefly on 21st April 2008.

 

8.

Conference of Possible Relevance.

The  Panel  considered  whether  it  would  wish  to  attend  a conference on 5th June 2008 at Westminster on Sustainable Communities. It was advised that a decision would need to be made sooner rather than later in order to take best advantage of prices. The Panel noted the relevance of the conference to its work  and  agreed  that  two  Panel  Members  would  attend accompanied by the Scrutiny Officer. It was noted that the cost of  the  conference  would  be  £125  per  delegate  and  that authorisation of associated expenditure would be required.

RD. KLB. PLC.

 

9.

Waste Plant Review.

  1. General Update

The Panel noted receipt of a paper providing an update on work on the Waste Plant Review. The Panel was advised that the meeting between the Chairman and Juniper on 9th April 2008 had  been  useful  and  that  discussion  had  occurred  over  the subsequent work that Juniper could undertake.

Consideration  was  given  to  the  situation  in  Cardiff  and  the potential benefit of obtaining information from there. It was noted that information could not be provided over the telephone and it was therefore agreed that the Chairman, accompanied by the Scrutiny Officer, would go to Cardiff to gather information. It was further  agreed  that  the  Chairman  would  speak  to  Senator Shenton  about  whether  the  Senator  should  also  go  in  his capacity as Minister for Health and Social Services.

  1. Exhibition

The  Panel  received  an  oral  update  on  preparations  for  the exhibition. It was noted that the stand would include a computer with interactive games. It was further noted that there had been no progress with Hautlieu School about obtaining the assistance of pupils to hand out flyers.

Consideration  was  given  to  the  catering  arrangements. Reference was made to who might attend the exhibition. It was

 

 

agreed to delegate responsibility for choosing the caterers to the Chairman.

RD. KLB. PLC.

 

10.

Air Quality Revew.

The  Panel  was  advised  of  the  work  that  the  Chairman  had undertaken on the draft report. It was noted that the Panel had been unable to meet the previously stated deadline of March 2008 due to a lack of available resources although an offer of resources had been received.

The Panel considered and agreed the photograph that would appear on the front of the report.

 RD. KLB. PLC.

 

Signed  Date: ..  

Chairman Environment Panel