Public Accounts Committee - Approved Panel Minutes - 12 May 2008

NG/JD/149 105

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE (31st Meeting)

12th May 2008

PART A

All members were present, with the exception of Connétable T.J. du Feu, Deputy A. Breckon, Mr. A. Grimes and Advocate A. Ohlsson, from whom apologies had been received.

Deputy S.C. Ferguson, Chairman Senator L. Norman

Connétable D.J. Murphy

Deputy J.G. Reed R. Bignell C. Evans M. Magee

In attendance -

C. Swinson, O.B.E., Comptroller and Auditor General

P. Monamy, Clerk to the Public Accounts Committee

N. Guillou, States Greffe

Note: The Minutes of this meeting comprise Part A and Part B

Minutes A1. The Minutes of the Meeting held on 14th April 2008 (Part A and Part B),

having been previously circulated, were taken as read and were confirmed.

Matters arising A2. The Committee noted the following matters arising from its previous Minutes

-

1. Notification  of  responsibilities  of  individual  P.A.C  members (Minutes Nos. A4 of 10th December 2007 and B3 of 14th January 2008) - The  Committee,  having  recalled  that  members' individual responsibilities  had  previously  been  set  out  in  its  minutes,  was reminded by the Chairman that they had subsequently been allocated 3 departments. This information had been communicated to members by means of a spreadsheet, but it was agreed that the details should be re- circulated. The question was asked whether individual members could arrange meetings with the Chief Officers of specific departments to discuss their accounts. The Chairman confirmed that members were at liberty to do so, and asked that they provide verbal feedback of any meetings to the Committee, which could then request a formal written report, if necessary;
2. Publication of a Committee comment on the recent C&AG reports on Pension  schemes  for  States' Employees' in  respect  of governance', liabilities' and status' (Minute No. A2 (b) of 14th April 2008) - The Committee noted that the press release outlining the Committee's comments had been drafted by the Chairman. Due to the late circulation of this document to the Committee, a decision deadline on whether to agree to, or amend, the release was deferred until 5 pm on the 14th May 2008;

3. Draft States of Jersey 2007 Financial Report and Accounts (Minute No. A4 of 14th April 2008) - With regard to the presentation to the forthcoming hearings of a re-stated set of figures to be read alongside the  States  of  Jersey  Accounts  2007, the  Comptroller  and  Auditor General (C&AG) confirmed that the necessary action had been taken and requisite figures would be prepared in time for the hearing to be held on 16th June 2008. The Committee considered the approach to be adopted at the hearings, both in respect of the private hearing with representatives  of   Price waterhouseCoopers  (PWC),  States  Auditors and the Chief Internal Auditor on 16th June 2008, and also the series of public hearings in July 2008 at which the Treasurer of the States and Chief Officers of the Social Security; Education, Sport and Culture; and Health and Social Services departments - and possibly others - would be interviewed. It was envisaged that discussion on 16th June would centre on the audits undertaken of the States of Jersey and Social  Security Accounts, and also  the departmental statements  on internal controls, thereby laying the ground-work for the subsequent hearings. The Committee also considered the possibility that an extra meeting might be held on 7th July 2008 for additional discussion with PWC and the Chief Internal Auditor. It was agreed that questioning should focus on 3 strands, namely, comparison between "budgets" and "actual expenditure"; the  quality  of  internal  controls;  and  the effectiveness of Accounting Officers, and would cover general areas of expenditure as well as being aimed at specific departmental activities. The C&AG undertook to provide members of the Committee with briefing papers in due course. The Committee considered whether the objective for its meeting scheduled on 4th August 2008 might be to approve a paper based on those matters which had arisen from the above-mentioned  hearings.  The  Chairman  indicated that  whereas  it might be that the Committee would itself take on all aspects arising from the States Spending Review, consideration would be given as to whether  certain  Scrutiny  Panels  might  be  better  placed  to  cover specific areas, and this matter would be discussed by the Chairmen's Committee  in  due  course.  The  Committee  agreed  that  it  might  be appropriate for its attention to be directed towards the various cross- cutting  issues  likely  to  arise,  for  example,  property  management, human resources, information technology, procurement, departmental structure and privatisation;
4. Call-in by Chairman of recommended acceptance of the surrender and  renewal  of  the  lease  to  the  St.  Helier  Yacht  Club  of  its clubhouse at South Pier, St. Helier (Minute A5 of 14th April 2008)

- The  Chairman  confirmed  that  whilst  some  outstanding  issues remained,  it  was  expected  that  the  review  of  the  recommendation would be completed by 16th May 2008;

5. Rationale  from  Minister  for  Treasury  and  Resources  for  the decision  regarding  delegation  of  approval  of  internal  budget transfers within the Treasury and Resources Department (Minute A6 of 14th April 2008) - The Chairman informed the Committee that a response had been requested from the Minister but that it had not yet been forthcoming. The Committee noted that this outstanding matter would be pursued.

Status of the draft A3. The Committee discussed the status of the draft "Report on the States' £35m "Report on the expenditure reductions. The Chairman apologised for the delay in finalising the States' £35m report but advised the Committee that publication should be achieved by 16th May expenditure 2008.

reductions":

presentation to The Committee accordingly approved the report and asked that it be presented the States. to the States for their information

512/1(16)

The Committee Clerk was directed to take the necessary action.