Skip to main content

Public Accounts Committee - Approved Committee Minutes - 9 July 2012

The official version of this document can be found via the PDF button.

The below content has been automatically generated from the original PDF and some formatting may have been lost, therefore it should not be relied upon to extract citations or propose amendments.

Public Accounts Committee

Record of Meeting

Date:   9th July 2012 Meeting No:  7

 

Present

Deputy T. Vallois, Chairman Senator S. C. Ferguson, Deputy R. Rondel

Mr S. Haigh

Apologies

Deputy S. Pitman

In attendance

Mrs K. Tremellen-Frost, Scrutiny Manager. Mr M. Robbins, Scrutiny Officer

 

Ref Back

Agenda matter

Action

 

1. Records of Meetings

The Committee approved the record of its meetings of 11th June 2012.

MR

 

2. Conflict of Interest: Lime Grove

Senator Ferguson declared a conflict of interest on the issue of Lime Grove  due  to  the  censure  motion  (P61/2012)  she  had  lodged  "au Greffe" on the Minister for Treasury and Resources. She intended to take no part in any discussion on that subject notwithstanding the fact that it was likely that the projet would be withdrawn.

 

 

3. Comptroller and Auditor General.

On  Friday  29th  June  2012,  the  Comptroller  and  Auditor  General resigned following a challenge by a witness to his report, "Report on the proposed acquisition of Lime Grove House and the conclusions on issues considered during the enquiry". The Comptroller and Auditor General considered that the issues raised by the report itself had been obscured  and  it  was  unacceptable  that  the  discharge  of  his responsibilities had become a public issue. This had led to his decision to resign with immediate effect.

The Committee expressed its gratitude to the Comptroller and Auditor General in his absence for the support and advice he had given during the life of the Committee. It required that a letter be sent expressing those views.

The Committee recalled that the process of recruiting a replacement Comptroller  and  Auditor  General  fell  to  the  Chief  Minister  and  the Chairman  of  the  Public  Accounts  Committee  and  that  in  the  first instance an interim appointment for six months was being investigated with the National Audit Office.

It was noted that the Director of Human Resources had been of the

MR

 

understanding that the preferred format was for a service agreement with the National Audit Office whereby reports would be commissioned on a requirement basis.

The Committee strongly opposed this notion and reminded itself that the  position  of  the  Comptroller  and  Auditor  General  had  to  remain completely independent from the Executive with total autonomy on the subjects reviewed. The commissioning of reports was totally contrary to the concept for independence required to maintain transparency and accountability of the public finances of the Island.

It was further noted that the Public Finance (Jersey) Law prescribed the appointment,  duties,  administration,  reports  and  powers  of  the Comptroller and Auditor General. Any changes to the office would need changes to the relevant legislation.

 

 

4. Constitution of the Committee.

The Committee recognised that this was an appropriate time to look at its own constitution.

Consequently, the Chairman had decided to defer the nomination of the new independent members to the States from 11th July until September and  the  Chairman  had  contacted  the  successful  candidates  and explained the deferment. On consideration of whether other members of  the  public  could  be  invited  to  apply,  it  was  agreed  that  it  was inappropriate to renege on the robust recruitment process which had been undertaken with the guidance of the Appointments Commission.

The Committee was advised that separate approaches had been made to the Chairman suggesting that the Treasury Department or Minister for Treasury and Resources had an interest in the reorganisation of the Committee, suggesting that the Committee needed a Chief Officer and could be restructured as a Board accountable to Treasury, although this had not been officially verified. The Committee was vehemently against these  proposals,  maintaining  that  complete  independence  from  the Government was paramount.

The main purpose of the Committee was to bring the reports of the Comptroller and Auditor General into the public domain and to hold those responsible for spending public money to account. It was agreed that there was an opportunity to make the Committee stronger and more readily capable of meeting its remit.

It  also  noted  that,  following  the  attendance  of  one  member  of  the Committee  and  the  officer  at  the  Commonwealth  Parliamentary Association  Westminster  workshop  for  Public  Accounts,  there  was evidence that the Committee was well placed to have met its terms of reference in a manner that many legislations in the world were aiming to emulate. Jersey was near the top of the best practice' ladder in areas of transparency and public accountability because the Public Accounts Committee had:

  • Advice from an independent Comptroller and Auditor General,
  • It was independent from the government
  • It had its reports presented to the States and made public,
  • It contained independent members and
  • Held its hearings in public.

 

 

The Chairman had circulated an email to all States Members relating to the role of the Committee in which she had requested any views on restructuring  be  forwarded  to  her.  The  Committee  would  meet  to discuss the options available and in order to allow time for other States Members to respond to the email, the meeting was to be held on 30th July 2012.

The Committee also considered taking the opportunity of the current situation by undertaking a body of work on the Code of Practice which related to the PAC.

MR

 

5. Lime Grove

The Committee recognised that it was not appropriate to follow up the report  by  the  Comptroller  and  Auditor  General,  "The  proposed acquisition  of  Lime  Grove  House",  until  allegations  questioning  the integrity of the report had been resolved. However, it was agreed that it was important that the Committee started the work immediately it was appropriate to do so.

 

Item  6 11.06.12

512/14

6. Review into the Bus Contract.

The draft report, "Management of Bus Contracts: Review of the report by the Comptroller and Auditor General" was circulated. The Committee agreed that members would read the draft and any amendments were to  be  sent  to  the  officer  for  the  preparation  of  a  final  draft.  The completed draft was to be circulated electronically when ready.

All /MR

Item  7 11.06.12

512/15

6. Compromise Agreements: Review of the C&AG Reports

The  Committee  noted  the  presentation  on  6th  July  2012  of  its Compromise  Agreement  report  entitled:  "Compromise  Agreements: Follow up on the investigations of the Comptroller and Auditor General." The recommendations were circulated to the relevant departments in line with paragraph 11.15 of the Code of Practice, separately to the report, on the approved template with a request for a response within six weeks, that being by the 20th August 2012.

MR

 

8. Future Meetings

The Committee agreed that the next formal scheduled meeting was to be at 12.30 pm on Monday 17th September 2012 in the Blampied Room of the States Buildings.

MR