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Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel
Records of Meetings
Year: 2019
The following records of meetings have been approved by the Panel. Signed
Deputy Louise Doublet
Chairperson
Gender Pay Gap Scrutiny Review Panel
Date: 8th January 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Senator Kristina Moore Deputy Jess Perchard |
Apologies |
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Absent |
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In attendance | Andy Harris , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Records of Meetings The Panel noted and approved the record of the meeting held on 11th December 2018. |
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2. Public Hearings The Panel received an update on the progress made arranging public hearings for the review. The Panel agreed to follow up the requests and agreed additional dates on which to hold hearings. The Officer advised that meeting requests would be sent to hold the additional dates, and confirmation of the hearings would be sent out in due course. The Panel noted a draft question plan for the hearings and discussed and agreed further areas of the questioning. In order to assist the Panel during the hearings, it was agreed that it would request the following from the Statistics Unit and Human Resources Department respectively:
The Officer advised that an updated question plan and glossary of terms in respect of the issue of the gender pay gap would be circulated in due course. | AH AH AH |
3. Focus groups The Panel agreed that it would meet with 4insight to receive a briefing on the findings of the focus groups on Thursday 10th January at 9:45am in the Blampied Room, States Building. The Panel requested that any information being presented be shared with it in advance if possible. | AH |
4. Future Meetings The Panel noted that its next scheduled meeting would take place on 22nd January 2019 at 1:00p.m in the Le Capelain room, States Building. |
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Date: 10th January 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson |
Apologies | Senator Kristina Moore Deputy Jess Perchard |
Absent |
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In attendance | Dorothy Parker, Director, 4insight limited [item 1 only] Beatrice Speck, 4insight [item 2 only] Andy Harris , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Briefing from 4insight The Panel received Dorothy Parker, Director, 4insight limited and Beatrice Speck, 4insight for a briefing on the results of the focus groups that had been conducted in respect of the Panel's review. The Panel received a presentation detailing the following;
The Panel considered whether a written report detailing the focus groups would be required from 4insight and agreed it would discuss this further at its next meeting. The Panel acknowledged that maintaining the confidentiality of the participants of the focus groups would be an important factor to consider when report writing. |
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2. Public Hearings The Panel noted that a public hearing with the Chief Minister had been confirmed for Thursday 17th January at 3:00pm. The Panel discussed an updated question plan and agreed the areas it would focus on during the hearing. The Officer advised that an updated question plan would be produced and circulated to the Panel. The Panel noted that the Chair of the Jersey Appointment's Commission, Dame Janet Paraskeva, was available to attend a public hearing on Tuesday 22nd January at 2:45pm. The Panel agreed to proceed and the Officer advised that a meeting request would be sent out. | AH AH |
Date: 17th January 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Senator Kristina Moore Deputy Jess Perchard |
Apologies |
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Absent |
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In attendance | Senator John Le Fondré, Chief Minister [item 1 only] Chris Stephenson , Senior Director, Human Resources [item 1 only] Sue Duhamel, Director, Strategic Policy, Performance and Population [item 1 only] Andy Harris , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Public hearing with the Chief Minister The Panel received Senator John Le Fondré, Chief Minister, Chris Stephenson , Senior Director, Human Resources and Sue Duhamel, Director, Strategic Policy, Performance and Population for a public hearing to discuss views on whether a gender pay gap existed in Jersey and its likely contributing factors. A recording of the hearing was made so that a transcript could be produced. In light of the hearing, the Panel agreed to draft a letter requesting data about the use of flexible working within the States of Jersey and specific information about how it operated. | AH/KB |
2. Public Hearings The Panel noted that it was due to hold a public hearing with representatives of the Diversity Network at 2:30pm on Monday 21st January. The Panel requested that the hearing time be changed to 3:00pm. The Panel agreed question areas for the hearing and requested that the Officer draft a question plan. The Panel also noted that a public hearing with the Chair of the Jersey Appointments Commission was due to take place on Tuesday 22nd January at 2:45pm. | AH |
Date: 21st January 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Senator Kristina Moore |
Apologies | Deputy Jess Perchard |
Absent |
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In attendance | Kate Wright, Co-Founder, Diversity Network Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Public Hearing with the Diversity Network The Panel received Kate Wright, Co-Founder of the Diversity Network for a Public Hearing to discuss views on whether a gender pay gap existed in Jersey and its likely contributing factors. A recording of the hearing was made so that a transcript could be produced. |
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2. Public Hearings The Panel noted that it was due to hold a Public Hearing with the Jersey Appointments Commission at 2:45pm on Tuesday 22nd January. The Panel also noted that it was due to meet Diversity in Change for a Public Hearing on Thursday 24th January at 3:00pm. |
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Date: 22nd January 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson Senator Kristina Moore Deputy Jess Perchard |
Apologies | Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson |
Absent |
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In attendance | Dame Janet Paraskeva, Chair of the Jersey Appointments Commission Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Records of Meetings The Panel noted and approved the records of its meetings held on the 8th and 10th January. The Panel requested one minor change to the record of the meeting held on 8th January. | KB |
2. Public Hearing with the Jersey Appointments Commission The Panel received Dame Janet Paraskeva, Chair of the Jersey Appointments Commission for a Public Hearing to discuss views on whether a gender pay gap existed in Jersey and its likely contributing factors. A recording of the hearing was made so that a transcript could be produced. |
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3. Focus Groups The Panel considered whether a written report detailing the focus groups would be required from 4insight. It was agreed that the PowerPoint presentation would be sufficient and that a report, which would come at an additional cost, would not be required. The Panel requested whether it was able to view the recordings of the focus groups at 4insight. The Officer advised that 4inisght would be contacted to see if this was possible. | KB |
4. Future Meetings The Panel noted that it would next meet at 1:00pm on 5th February in the first floor meeting room, Morier House. |
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Date: 24th January 2019
Present | Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Senator Kristina Moore Deputy Jess Perchard |
Apologies | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson |
Absent |
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In attendance | Janet Hall , Diversity in Change Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Public Hearing with the Diversity in Change The Panel received Janet Hall , Diversity in Change, for a Public Hearing to discuss views on whether there was a gender pay gap in Jersey and its likely contributing factors. A recording of the hearing was made so that a transcript could be produced. |
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Date: 5th February 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson [item 1 only] Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Senator Kristina Moore |
Apologies | Deputy Jess Perchard |
Absent |
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In attendance | Sue Duhamel, Director of Policy, Department for Strategic Policy, Performance and Population [Item 2] Kate Morel , Policy Principal, Strategic Policy, Performance and Population [Item 2] Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Meeting at 4insight The Panel met at the 4insight office to watch the leadership focus group. |
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2. Family Friendly Employment Rights The Panel met with Officers from the Department for Strategic Policy, Performance and Population to discuss forthcoming family friendly employment rights. This meeting was held in private in accordance with the Freedom of Information (Jersey) Law 2011 (as amended) under Qualified Exemption Article 35. |
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Date: 6th February 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson [item 1 only] Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Senator Kristina Moore |
Apologies | Deputy Jess Perchard |
Absent |
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In attendance | Advocate Vicky Milner, Callington Chambers [item 1] Eliot Lincoln, President, Jersey Chamber of Commerce [item 2] Lorna Pestana, Chair, Human Resources Committee, Jersey Chamber of Commerce [item 2] Brian Bethall, Member, Finance Committee, Jersey Chamber of Commerce [item 2] Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Public Hearing with Advocate Vicky Milner The Panel met Advocate Vicky Milner of Callington Chambers (law firm) for a Public Hearing to discuss whether there was a gender pay gap in Jersey, and in particular within the legal sector. A recording of the hearing was made so that a transcript could be produced. |
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2. Public Hearing with the Jersey Chamber of Commerce The Panel met representatives from the Jersey Chamber of Commerce for a Public Hearing to discuss whether there was a gender pay gap in Jersey. A recording of the hearing was made so that a transcript could be produced. |
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Date: 14th February 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Senator Kristina Moore |
Apologies | Deputy Jess Perchard |
Absent |
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In attendance | Person providing personal testimony Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Private Hearing In accordance with the Freedom of Information (Jersey) Law 2011 (as amended) under Absolute Exemption Article 25, the Panel held a private hearing with an individual who wanted to share their experience gender diversity in Jersey. The proceedings were recorded in order that a transcript could be made. The Panel agreed that the transcript would not be published to maintain the privacy and confidentiality of the individual concerned. |
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Date: 4th March 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Deputy Jess Perchard |
Apologies | Senator Kristina Moore |
Absent |
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In attendance | Deputy Judy Martin, Minister for Social Security Deputy Geoff Southern , Assistant Minister for Social Security Deputy Jeremy Maçon, Assistant Minister for Social Security Sue Duhamel, Director, Policy and Strategy Kate Morel , Policy Principal Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Public Hearing The Panel held a Public Hearing with the Minister for Social Security and her Officers to discuss whether there was a gender pay gap in Jersey. The proceedings were recorded in order that a transcript could be made. |
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Date: 6th March 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Senator Kristina Moore Deputy Jess Perchard |
Apologies |
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Absent |
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In attendance | Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Records of Meetings The Panel noted and approved the records of its meetings held on 5th, 6th and 14th February 2019. |
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2. Heads of Report The Panel discussed the heads of report for the review. |
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3. Future meetings The Panel noted that it would next meet at 2:30pm on Thursday 21st March in order to hold its final Public Hearing with the Chief Minister. |
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Date: 7th March 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Senator Kristina Moore Deputy Jess Perchard |
Apologies |
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Absent |
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In attendance | Jon Terry, Partner, Price waterhouseCoopers UK Leyla Yildirim Chief Strategy Officer, Price waterhouseCoopers Karl Hairon, Partner, Price waterhouseCoopers Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Meeting with Price waterhouseCoopers The Panel met Jon Terry, Partner of Price waterhouseCoopers UK (professional services firm) who specialised in people and diversity issues. Mr Terry was accompanied by Jersey representatives of the firm. It was noted that PwC had been running a global "Women in Work Index" for OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) countries and was in the process of replicating this for the Channel Islands. The Channel Islands Work Index would be based on data gathered from Statistics Jersey, Guernsey and other anecdotal data and insights. It was advised that the work would produce an estimate of the benefits of increased female participation in the workplace in terms of Gross Domestic Product. It was hoped that the work would create a more inclusive financial services sector. Mr Terry explained that one of PwC's core values was gender equality and that the firm had allocated significant resource in order to become a more diverse company. It was noted that the firm had produced many reports on the issue which could be a beneficial resource for the Panel whilst drafting its final report. In terms of quotas (numerical requirements for hiring, promoting, admitting and/or graduating members of a particular group) Mr Terry believed that these made little difference to the culture of an organisation. In his view, there were three critical areas to achieve gender equality in an organisation:
Communication within an organisation and its stakeholders/customers and targets (to measure success) were also identified as key areas to achieve gender equality. Mr Terry was also in favour of introducing statutory measures for gender pay gap reporting. |
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Mr Terry explained that there were reputational risks of not being a gender equal society. This was particularly important for attracting businesses and skill sets to the Island. In terms of cultural "norms", education was an important enabler in addressing societal issues. The Panel thanked Mr Terry and his colleagues for their time and they withdrew from the meeting. |
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Date: 22nd March 2019
Present | Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Deputy Jess Perchard |
Apologies | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson Senator Kristina Moore |
Absent |
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In attendance | Senator John Le Fondré, Chief Minister and Chair of the States Employment Board Chris Stephenson , Senior Director, Human Resources Jacquie McGreachie, Human Resources Denise Drieu, Senior Manager - Organisational Development Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Public Hearing with the Chief Minister The Panel met the Chief Minister in his capacity as the Chair of the States Employment Board for a Public Hearing. The Chief Minister was accompanied by Officers from the Chief Operating Office. A recording of the hearing was made so that a transcript could be produced. |
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Date: 26th June 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Deputy Jess Perchard |
Apologies | Senator Kristina Moore |
Absent |
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In attendance | Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Draft Report The Panel had previously received a draft report to consider. The Panel made minor amendments and agreed that sections of the main body could be sent to stakeholders for factual checking. The Panel agreed that it would meet on Thursday 4th July to review any factual comments and to confirm its key findings and recommendations. | KB |
Date: 4th July 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Deputy Jess Perchard Senator Kristina Moore |
Apologies |
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Absent |
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In attendance | Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Draft Report The Panel discussed comments received from stakeholders and made minor amendments to the main body of its report. The Panel also discussed its draft recommendations and agreed to meet on 10th July to continue the discussion. | KB |
Date: 10th July 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson Deputy Jess Perchard |
Apologies | Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Senator Kristina Moore |
Absent |
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In attendance | Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Draft Report The Panel discussed its draft recommendations and key findings and made minor amendments. The Panel agreed that the report would be circulated for final approval on Monday 15th July. The Panel noted that, once approved, the report could be formally presented on 17th July. |
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Date: 16th July 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Senator Kristina Moore Deputy Jess Perchard |
Apologies |
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Absent |
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In attendance | Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Draft Report The Panel approved the final report "Is there a gender pay gap in Jersey?" (S.R.10/2019) and noted that it would be formally presented on 17th July. The Panel also noted that the Chair was due to make Statement about the report during the States Assembly sitting. |
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Date: 5th August 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson Senator Kristina Moore |
Apologies | Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Deputy Jess Perchard |
Absent |
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In attendance | Gillian Unsworth, Head of the Gender Pay Gap Team, Government Office for Equalities UK Charlotte Littleboy, Programme Director, Guernsey-Jersey Joint Working Programme, Office of the Chief Executive Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Meeting with Gillian Unsworth: Head of the Gender Pay Gap Team UK The Panel met Gillian Unsworth, Head of the Gender Pay Gap Team in the UK to discuss her experiences of gender pay gap reporting and other related issues. It was noted that Ms Unsworth was visiting Jersey to speak at a Women Into Leadership network (I WILL) event. Charlotte Littleboy was also in attendance as a member of the I WILL Steering Group. It was noted that the UK had introduced gender pay gap reporting in 2017. Ms Unsworth explained that although the availability of data was important, how data was analysed and published should be a focus for employers. The Panel explained that it had not recommended, in its final report, that gender pay gap reporting should be introduced in Jersey because it had not received enough evidence to support a recommendation. However, there had been political support for legislation to be introduced during the Chair's statement to the States Assembly. Ms Unsworth explained that since gender pay gap reporting had become mandatory in the UK, there had been strong support from most businesses. It was believed that this was because of the reputational benefits of having an equal workforce. Ms Unsworth advised that once the legislation had been implemented in the UK, her team had been established and part of the team's role was to assist and support businesses with their reporting. It was agreed that a similar support organisation would be beneficial, should Jersey introduce legislation. Ms Littleboy explained that, as part of the I WILL initiative, a meeting had taken place with the Royal Bank of Canada (RBC). It was noted that RBC was committed to improving its data and had invested in a range of initiatives. It was also noted that RBC had published data on parental leave statistics. In terms of mandatory gender pay gap reporting in other jurisdictions, Ms Unsworth mentioned Australia. She explained that Australia had introduced legislation in 2014 but gender pay gap reports were not published, instead businesses were required to |
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report directly to the government. Ms Unsworth explained that the country had seen a shift in its gender pay gap. It was noted that Ireland was working towards introducing mandatory reporting and was currently considering the threshold of the number employees businesses would have in order to report. In the UK, businesses with 250 or more employees were required to report on their gender pay gap. Ms Unsworth explained that if the threshold was lowered to 50 or more employees, for example, data protection rules would need to be considered. Zurich was also discussed and Ms Unsworth explained that every employee in Zurich was on flexible working hours. It was Ms Unsworth's view that if employers offered flexible working or job shares, these should be advertised clearly along with the benefits of flexibility in the workplace. Ms Unsworth was also supportive of publishing salary bands and pay transparency. In Norway for example, every salary was published. Ms Unsworth explained that societal change was needed to improve the gender pay gap. Some adverts, for example, had used stereotypical scenarios for boys and girls which her team monitored. In terms of education, Ms Unsworth advised the Panel that the Department for Education in the UK had developed some initiatives to encourage female students into STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) subjects. The Panel explained that similar initiatives had been introduced in Jersey. The Panel thanked Ms Unsworth and Ms Littleboy for their time and they withdrew from the meeting. |
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Date: 9th September 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chairperson Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chairperson Senator Kristina Moore |
Apologies | Deputy Jess Perchard |
Absent |
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In attendance | Senator Le Fondré, Chief Minister Deputy Jeremy Maçon, Assistant Minister for Education Seán O'Regan, Director of Education Chris Stevenson, Director, Human Resources Denise Drieu, Senior Manager, Organisational Development and Learning Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Ministerial Response to S.R.10/2019 The Panel met the Chief Minister, Assistant Minister for Education and Officers to discuss the Ministerial Response to the Panel's report "Is there a gender pay gap in Jersey?". It was noted that the Ministerial Response had been published on 9th September. The Panel noted that most of the recommendations had been either accepted or partially accepted by either the Chief Minister or the Minister for Education. It was noted that some recommendations required further discussion with Statistics Jersey in order to clarify whether the appropriate methodology could be applied to gather the right level of statistics. In that regard, it was agreed that the Panel would be updated on these discussions. In relation to recommendation 3 "A public sector gender pay gap report should be published on an annual basis and at the same time every year starting with a report by the end of 2020", it was noted that this had been accepted by the Chief Minister. The Senior Manager of Organisational Development and Learning advised that the gender pay gap report was due to be published in early October. In that regard, it was agreed that a briefing for all States Members would be organised prior to the publication of the report and a separate meeting would be held afterwards with the Panel. The Panel highlighted key finding 5 which identified that there was a glass ceiling in education. It was noted that the ministerial comments on the key finding stated that it was "factually incorrect". The Panel asked why the finding was factually incorrect given that statistics were provided by the Department for Children, Young People, Education and Skills and showed that there were more male headteachers than female headteachers in the profession but a higher proportion of female teachers than male teachers. The Chief Minister acknowledged the Panel's concerns and agreed that the matter would be addressed and a revised response would be issued in due course. |
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The Panel thanked the Chief Minister, Assistant Minister for Education and Officers for their time and they withdrew from the meeting. |
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Date: 7th October 2019
Present | Deputy Louise Doublet , Chair Deputy Kirsten Morel , Vice-Chair |
Apologies | Senator Kristina Moore Deputy Jess Perchard |
Absent |
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In attendance | Connétable Richard Buchanan, Deputy Chief Minister Denise Drieu, Senior Manager, Organisational Development and Learning Paul McLaughlin, Rewards Team, People Services Matt Duncan, Analyst, People Services Kellie Boydens , Scrutiny Officer |
Agenda matter | Action |
1. Briefing on States of Jersey Gender Pay Gap Report 2019 The Panel met the Deputy Chief Minister and officers to discuss the States of Jersey Gender Pay Gap Report, published on 7th October. The Panel welcomed the Government of Jersey's commitment to reduce the gender pay gap which involved implementing programmes aimed at targeting the barriers to progression and increasing opportunities for employees in under-represented areas. The Senior Manager of Organisational Development and Learning explained that a People Strategy was currently being developed which aimed to address inequality and disparity throughout the Government. The Panel referred to key finding 5 in its report which identified that there was a glass ceiling in Education with a higher proportion of female teachers than male teachers but a higher proportion of male heads than female heads. The Deputy Chief Minister advised that discussions would take place with the Minister for Education regarding the Panel's finding and recommendation that audits should be undertaken in primary and secondary education (recommendations 6 and 7). The Panel thanked the Deputy Chief Minister and officers for their time and advised that a Public Hearing would be organised in due course to discuss the States of Jersey Gender Pay Gap Report further. | KB |