Transcript - Quarterly Public Hearing with the Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture

Economic and International Affairs Scrutiny Panel Quarterly Hearing

Witness: The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture

Thursday, 16th February 2023

Panel:

Deputy M.R. Scott of St. Brelade (Chair) Deputy R.S. Kovacs of St. Saviour (Vice-Chair) Deputy M.B. Andrews of St. Helier North

Witnesses:

Deputy K.F. Morel of St. John , St. Lawrence and Trinity , The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture

Deputy A. Curtis of St. Clement , Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1)

Deputy L. Stephenson of St. Mary, St. Ouen and St. Peter,  Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2)

Mr. D. Houseago, Group Director, Economy

Mr. T. Holvey, Chief Economic Advisor

Mr. H. Harvey, Head of Local Economy

[10:30]

Deputy M.R. Scott of St. Brelade (Chair):

We are going to begin. Welcome to the second quarterly hearing of this panel of the Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture and the 2 Assistant Ministers, one for sport and one for digital. Welcome too, to the officers. If everybody could ensure that they have their mobile devices on silent. Do we have any members of the public? Just to say, as you know, because I know that you are often here, please do not interrupt proceedings and please leave quietly when they have finished. We will start by going round the table and seeing who we have here.

Group Director, Economy:

Dan Houseago, group director for Economy.

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

Deputy Alex Curtis , Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture.

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

Deputy Lucy Stephenson , Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture with responsibility for sport.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

Deputy Kirsten Morel , The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture.

Chief Economic Adviser:

Tom Holvey, chief economic adviser.

Head of Local Economy:

Heath Harvey, head of Local Economy.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

And I am Moz Scott , the chair of the Economic and International Affairs Scrutiny Panel.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs of St. Saviour (Vice-Chair): Deputy Raluca Kovacs , vice chair of the panel.

Deputy M.B. Andrews of St. Helier North : I am Deputy Max Andrews , a panel member.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Thank you. The aims of this hearing are to question you on upcoming policy and workload for the next quarter, and some other matters of public interest. We are going to begin on the subject of the arm's length organisations and the forthcoming review. We note from your recent correspondence, Minister, that the A.L.O. (arm's length organisations) value for money review will be undertaken this year. Are you able to update us further on this and have terms of reference been established for this review please?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

No, terms of reference have not yet been established. We are still in the scoping phase of that.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay. We note that one full-time employee will oversee the review. Is this a new addition to the Department for Economy?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I do not believe it is a new addition.

Group Director, Economy: No.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

What is the position or title of the person who will be conducting the review please?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I will have to ask Dan this one.

Group Director, Economy: I will be leading the review.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay, great. Thank you. And you will be reporting to ...?

Group Director, Economy:

To the Minister and the chief officer.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Will anybody be assisting you in this?

Group Director, Economy:

I think it depends on the scope of the work, which the Minister has highlighted is in development, and the terms of reference of the group. I think inevitably that will dictate the scale of the team that is required to do the work.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So there is no new role being advertised for this?

Group Director, Economy:

Not specifically for this work. We have currently got 9 vacancies in the team, so those are going through the process of advertisement but they are not specific to your point.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

What particular skills do you think are needed for that particular role?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: There is no new role. So Dan is bringing his skills to that.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay. In terms of the job of conducting this review, what is it that you particularly think you need to be doing in that respect? If you like, let me be clearer. It is an internal post and ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

Sorry, if I may. It sounds like you are thinking that this is a particular role, that Dan will only be doing this as his only job. That is not correct. Dan will be doing this as part of his wider piece of work. It is just another project among many other projects.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

I am sorry, there has been confusion and it is to do with the content of a confidential business plan that we saw as part of the Government Plan.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

Maybe so, so I am helping you understand now Dan is doing it as a project as part of his regular work.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Has there been a change in the way in which you have been approaching this particular task then?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Not that I know of, no.

Deputy M.R. Scott : Okay.

Group Director, Economy:

Chairman, it might just be worth a little bit of context and clarification. I think the Government certainly over the last couple of years has been reviewing its approach to arm's length bodies. I think one of the things that has been precipitated from that work is in our department a focus on the 11 A.L.O.s particularly in the Public Finances Manual that we are responsible for. The Minister has quite rightly said are we getting value for money from that. That is a requirement in the Public Finances Law as well. So we are doing some due diligence around the A.L.O.s making sure that they are delivering value for money against a new set of Ministerial priorities and a newly published Ministerial plan.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Thank you. Thinking about the options in terms of this review, do you think that in terms of having somebody internally undertake this review that this could perhaps lead to potential problems in terms of challenge or impartiality?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Who is that directed to? Me?

Deputy M.R. Scott : Yes.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: No.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay. You are satisfied that in terms of challenge you have got everybody you need?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

Absolutely. Anyone who thinks that I or my officers are fearful of challenging people then they are mistaken when it comes to ensuring that we get value for money.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

In terms of then the roles that are currently played by your officers in terms of reviewing the A.L.O.s and this particular review, what is the difference in terms of challenge?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

Dan is best placed to answer this, but ordinarily we have obviously the shareholders on the board, and that is usually someone from Treasury but also we have very often Dan, himself, sitting on the board of various A.L.O.s as the Government representative. What we are doing here is moving out of the business-as-usual piece of work where there is just that ongoing dialogue and that ongoing understanding, looking at the accounts, et cetera, on to a focused piece of work which looks at the value for money of the A.L.O.s against the priorities that are set by the Ministers. It is a single project to look at that and to understand if the A.L.O.s are in the best structure at the moment and the best resourcing, et cetera, to deliver value for money for the Island. To me it is a completely normal project that any organisation would do on a periodic basis to understand whether a particular element of that organisation is delivering value for money.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Will there be an element of zero budgeting there?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I could not tell you, we have not scoped out the project yet.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

All right. When do you think you will be able to share some terms of reference?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: As soon as they are ready.

Deputy M.R. Scott : Do you have a ...?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: No, I do not at the moment.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Within a year, within 6 months?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

We are doing this project this year so it will be in the coming months. We do not have a particular set date for that.

Deputy M.R. Scott : Okay, thank you.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

Referring to the Ministerial plan objectives on implementing the rural and marine economy frameworks, you said you will deliver increased support in the marine and agriculture sectors. From our previous briefing, and in line with the Government Plan, funding should now be in place for the rural initiative scheme for this year. How many applicants have you had for 2023 so far and of those how many were successful?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

All applicants have been successful ... all applicants so far and in the letter that we sent to you on 3rd February we had had 8.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

Eight, okay. How much funding has been applied for and given out via this application?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I do not have that because that changes every day because it depends on the applications that come in, so I am unable to answer that. We could give you an amount as of, let us say, 28th February or something but as the applications come in and turned around then the amount goes up.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

So we will have access to those fund amounts if we want to?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

Yes. But I think to have a running total would be a relative waste of time because it would be a changing number every single day. It would be better to have a check-in point where you say: "Okay, 6 months in, how much has been given? Six months later, how much has been given?"

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

Okay, at a later point we can come back with the question, thank you. We recently also had the private briefing on the funding for fisheries, which was announced in the media in late January. While we appreciate the information provided in the briefing was private are you able to share in the public domain how the scheme will work and when it is due to be up and running?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

The scheme is being designed at the moment. It is due to be up and running by May at the latest. The scheme is being modelled on the agricultural support scheme, so it will be very similar and I know that you have been briefed on the agricultural support scheme. So a very similar template to that.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

With respect to these schemes, in particular the fisheries schemes, quite obviously they are there to support the industry. At the same time it does have certain challenges. How will you be factoring the question of sustainability into the design of the programme?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

In the same way that we have done with the agricultural support scheme but obviously we will not be looking at hedgerow management, we will be looking at other elements of environmental management within the seas.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So by sustainability I mean in terms of the grants that you give and in light of perhaps the economic challenges and the fact that costs just keep going up, how you tend to approach the sustainability of that sort of funding.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

That is part of the work that is being done at the moment. We said we have put aside £300,000 to the support scheme and it will look at things such as fuel costs, et cetera. That sort of thing will be factored in and once we have got this scheme up and running we will be working through the rest of 2023 to have a more fleshed-out scheme ready for 2024, which will be incorporated into the Government Plan. Looking at the economic sustainability side of it, that work will be done then. At the moment, we are trying to get a scheme done as quickly as possible to ensure that there is support this year for the fishing industry.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

I will just follow up with a few questions on the arts and heritage area. Just looking at the Comptroller and Auditor General's report, she highlights that the strategies have been implemented but they have not been costed. So how will you ensure that the objectives will be successfully complete when you have not actually costed the strategies themselves?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

Because the strategy is not an operational plan. So the strategy does not look to costs. I would ask you to point to many strategies around the Government or indeed any other organisation which point directly to costs. They tend not to because from the strategy you are getting a direction of travel and then you look at how you take that direction of travel and implement it through an operational plan. That operational plan will cost against it. Please correct me if I am wrong, Dan.

Group Director, Economy:

I think the Minister is absolutely right. We were awarded the 1 per cent through the States Assembly, as you are aware. One of the points of the Arts Strategy was to make sure we had a framework within which to spend that 1 per cent. So all of the spend is consistent effectively with the arts strategy.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

My colleague, Deputy Matthews, of course is in the P.A.C. (Public Accounts committee) and probably has more detailed knowledge of this but my understanding in terms of what the Comptroller and Auditor General was saying is that when you craft a strategy you need to be sure that it is realistic in terms of the actual ability to fund it. Perhaps we could take it from there.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I mean I do agree but I do not think there is anything in that strategy because ... there are 2 ways to look at it. Yes, you can sit down and have a strategy which says okay we are going to go to the moon, and that is outrageous because that would cost far, far too much. We can have a strategy which quite clearly, by reading it, you realise that there is a range of costs that you could put against it, so you could, in terms of art education put £10 million against it or you could put £50,000 against it. It is then, after you have written the strategy, that you decide the quantum of the amount of money that you want to spend to try and achieve your aim.

Group Director, Economy:

If I could add to that. The strategy is a slightly different approach to standard government strategies in the sense that, for example, the Creative Island Partnership is there to develop and support the implementation of the Arts Strategy. So it is, to some extent, an iterative process, so nailing particular sums of money to a particular activity would be, I think, premature in that case.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Sorry, there is an element of sound feedback going on here. I am not sure. Were you going to ask about getting biggest bang for the buck?

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

I was just interested because it just seems to be a very common theme where the Government has an approach where they arrange for a budget but in terms of the deliverables, in terms of how we action our plans and also looking at expenditure, sometimes we do not really see that from our side.

[10:45]

As scrutineers we would like to be seeing what the actual expenditure is within that budget.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Yes, and there is an expenditure plan.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

There is not detail being explicit.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

We can hand you the expenditure plan. It is not in the strategy and it will not ever be in the strategy because the expenditure plan will change year on year according to the needs of the year ahead. That is what the Government Plan is for. Of course we have an expenditure plan for us but if you are looking for it in the strategy then that is the wrong place to look.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Also one of the other things, in terms of when we are looking at the arts strategy, the Comptroller and Auditor General was saying there is a need to increase funding above 1 per cent if we are able to achieve our objectives. So as it currently stands, we will not be able to achieve some of the objectives.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I disagree.

Deputy M.B. Andrews : Why do you disagree?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

The Auditor General provides recommendations, the Auditor General does not provide direction. I think when it comes to understanding how much is going to be put against any item of spend anywhere in Government that is a political matter. It is unusual for the Auditor General to comment on the actual amount of money that is required. That is a very unusual place for the Auditor General to be.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

From my perspective, the Comptroller and Auditor General takes a look and she is very intricate and detailed.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I understand that.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Surely this is something that you, as a Minister, would be taking back to the table to ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

We always take the Auditor General's concerns into account, quite clearly. We look at them, we act or do not act if we disagree or agree, but that is a whole process in itself.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Were you surprised at her finding in her report?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I think it is an unusual finding.

Deputy M.B. Andrews : An unusual finding?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Yes, I do believe so.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Minister, could you expand on that because I think from what I am understanding in terms of your response, you accept that she is not political, you hopefully accept that she looks at things in an objective way and looks at costing. What is being said here is that a strategy has been produced that was not costed, and that if it were to be actually achieved the budget is not sufficient. I think you are possibly disputing that but it is not clear to me whether you are disputing the way in which she is costing it or how she is interpreting the strategy. But also there is perhaps more of an industry concern that if you have policies that are basically looking like wish lists then you are not perhaps looking at how you get the biggest bang for your buck, how you can get more for your money by focusing on a particular thing within your strategy. Could you perhaps expand on that?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I think where we started this entire session, on the review of value for money for the A.L.O.s, shows that I am a Minister who is extremely concerned about ensuring we get value for money and bang for our buck. That is exactly one of the reasons why I am in this position at the moment. As far as that particular element of the Auditor General's thinking is concerned, I do disagree. We can deliver our strategy, we can deliver it within 1 per cent and one of the reasons for that is because 1 per cent is not the entire quantum of money that goes in. For instance, on the social prescribing we have, as through the arts and culture section, teamed up in areas in public health and we kind of bring more money together from different areas. This week we have the Dreaming Trees initiative going on in Howard Davis Park. That is sponsored by us as a department. That is also sponsored by a corporate partner and it is also being delivered by the Infrastructure, Housing and Environment Department. There are ways to, and really engage in these ways, leverage the 1 per cent to make it bigger than 1 per cent and that is exactly what we do.

Group Director, Economy:

Perhaps if I just add on the 1 per cent on the costing point; 1 per cent varies year on year. So it would be very difficult to put accurate costings into a strategy in any case on that basis.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

The Opera House is another really good way. If we are trying to fund the Opera House after the 1 per cent, of course we would not be able to do that. But we are funding the Opera House from the capital programme, which then gives us an extra £11 million in terms of arts and culture spend.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

I will let Deputy Andrews carry on with this line of questioning because if we go into the Opera House and the way it was funded previously by private funding and now it is being funded by Government, we could be another half an hour.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Something else that was highlighted within the Comptroller and Auditor General's report. She stated that the grant of awards to stakeholders is still in need of revision to reflect the new strategies. Could you give us a timeline in terms of when this could be achieved?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

That is an ongoing piece of work to ensure that our grant awarding is ... that is the bit that I think is most interesting from the C. and A.G.'s (Comptroller Auditor General) report. That is the bit we are focusing on, making sure that we bring in whatever governance, et cetera, is needed to make sure that that is done in an appropriate way.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

So how soon could we be receiving news on that front?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I think it is a matter of months.

Deputy M.B. Andrews : A matter of months?

Group Director, Economy: Yes, within the next 2 months.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Okay, thank you very much. Also, as well, I just noticed that ArtHouse funding increased by 362 per cent between 2019 to 2022. Can you explain the reasons for the increase in funding?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Because they are a massively important delivery partner for the art strategy.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

In terms of successes that they have been able to accomplish during that period due to the increased funding, could you maybe just give us a bit more detail about what they have been doing?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

They have, number one, opened a public gallery in the centre of town. That is available to all Islanders for free. I think that is a massively important step forward because that brings art ... people can now go and visit an art gallery knowing that there is no pressure to buy anything. Knowing that there is no pressure to have knowledge of anything and they can go in, they can spend lunch hours, they can go and just enjoy art that had been made principally but not exclusively by Islanders. I think that is a great step forward that I support.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

So it looks like it is actually a tourist attraction for many people who may be coming to the Island and a place where they would ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

It also acts as a tourist attraction but the gallery is, in my view, aimed at Islanders. It is about trying to ensure that Islanders, any Islander, can enjoy art that has been produced principally in this Island, like I said not exclusively, and can do that at any time for free at their own leisure. I think that is one element. Other elements that they do really well, they are engaging with older people in our community, particularly people who are suffering from dementia, and they help them through various programmes including memory boxes and things like this. If you want to explore ArtHouse Jersey's offering I really suggest that you go and speak to them and visit them. Because the work they do is extensive and impressive.

Deputy M.B. Andrews : I might just do that.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

You should, absolutely. There is a reason they are being supported to the extent that they have and it is because they deliver. They are also incredibly innovative so the Town Church, there is the art exhibition last year in the Town Church, which used both local and international artists, brought people into a space that they had never thought of before as an art gallery. It was wonderful that the Dean and the church community opened the space for Islanders. It is just another example of seeing something differently. I remember going ... you had a kind of sustainable/recycled fashion show going on in the Town Church. It was a brilliant way to breathe new life into a building that people see from one perspective and gave the opportunity to see it from a different perspective.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Can I just come in at this point about the spaces and art exhibitions because clearly there have been spaces and there are some spaces in museums and the Francis Cook Gallery, which I know is outside town. But there are potential spaces and we are talking about funding. Are we are talking about Capital House?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Yes.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Could you just explain the particular distinction that you are applying here and why you felt that merited that extra funding? Is it going to be a permanent thing. Because I know we have lots of temporary exhibition areas in different places, so what is the real kind of: "Yes, this is going to make all the difference"?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

This was an ArtHouse Jersey initiative so the best people to ask are them. But when they came ...

Deputy M.R. Scott :

You are funding it, Minister.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

No, I am funding ArtHouse Jersey. They then have discretion as to how they spend their budget. They obviously come to me. We do not direct the arm's length organisations.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Surely they give you a business plan, Minister.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Absolutely they bring me a business plan.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

And that you decide what you are funding.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

Absolutely. I looked at the business plan and I thought that was an interesting initiative. But if you want to know the full motivations as to why they have done this then they are the best people to speak to.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Are you not the person to ask them?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I do ask them.

Deputy M.R. Scott : So what is the ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I believe it is because they want to bring art to the community, as I just said.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So the question I have asked you is that when you approve that funding and the business plan, and you saw this as part of the actual business plan, what made you think that this was a particularly important thing to do?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Bringing art to the community.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

In terms of it being different in terms of how it is being brought now what did you think justified that extra spending?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

The spending is within the budget so there is no extra spending. From that perspective I am not worried about them looking for extra money. What I do think is that by bringing a publicly-funded art gallery to town where people can ... it helps you break through the sense of elitism that some people feel art has. It helps local artists be championed in a space where they are not necessarily having to be commercial, and it is one of those initiatives that when ArtHouse Jersey suggested they would like to do it, I am here to back Islanders who are looking to be innovative and try new things. Some of those things may fail, some of those things will succeed. That is one of the things that I am trying to do from the perspective of growing the entrepreneurial spirit in jersey. I think this is a great example of entrepreneurial skills in Jersey. Trying something new, seeing whether it fails or does not fail. If it fails then ArtHouse Jersey will obviously withdraw from that particular project but if you do not try something you do not know. It is safely within their budget so I do not have a problem.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Can I just be clear? You have talked about the commercialisation now so is it a space ... but you said it is not a space where people are going to be pressured to buy work.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Absolutely.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

When you talk about this commercialisation aspect what, in terms of when you approve the funding for ArtHouse Jersey, did you see as the element by which they commercialise the work of artists in this Island for sale, for example?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

Work in there is for sale. You can buy it. But unlike a private gallery ... not all the work is for sale but, for instance, they had the Jason Butler exhibition where every piece of art there was for sale. ArtHouse obviously are engaging with the artists with regard to commission, et cetera, for those sales. But there is zero pressure to buy unlike some people ... I do know that some people are fearful to go into a private gallery because of that sense that they feel pressured to buy and they see the price of art at thousands and thousands of pounds. All they want to do is enjoy the art but they feel pressured to buy it and therefore they do not go in there. In a public gallery like this, the primary purpose is for the public to enjoy the art. The secondary purpose is to try to sell that art, but it is very much a secondary purpose.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Is there another initiative in terms of helping artists sell their work other than exhibiting in a gallery here?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

There are various ways that ArtHouse Jersey do that. I am sorry, I do not remember their business plan by heart, but I would be happy to go into them. They have many ways that they bring art to Islanders and enable those artists to sell their work to Islanders.

Group Director, Economy:

Perhaps I can add that the relationship we have with our arm's length organisations is a strategic partnership. So we effectively work in partnership with them because they have the expertise to deliver against our Ministerial objectives or common strategic policies and so on and so forth. It is the point of the relationship. This is not a grant funder and supplicant relationship. This is us recognising the expertise and in this case international reach, which is bringing benefit back into the Island. It is a strategic partnership and we commission on that basis.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Nevertheless, there are grants given from public funds ...

Group Director, Economy: There are.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

... so in terms of that there is the need perhaps for a certain amount of challenge because otherwise the public need to know ... you are just giving away blank cheques, you know. I am sure you are not but in a sense it is that process that we are looking into. Anyway, I will go back to ...

Group Director, Economy:

Just on that though, just to be absolutely clear.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

If you can be very quick.

Group Director, Economy:

It is an important point. There is an incredibly large amount of due diligence in Government around public money that is given out and it is also governed by law. So I would not want there to be any doubt about that the fact that that governance is in place.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Perhaps we can talk about that more in another ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I think as well it is really important to remember that arm's length organisations across the full breadth of them from Jersey Finance, Jersey Sport, Visit Jersey, ArtHouse Jersey, the whole range of them, Digital Jersey and so on, one of the reasons they are there is because they are able to deliver in a way that Government cannot. So one of the things that I know from questions that have been lodged by members of the panel recently is the concern about headcount. Now people want Government to deliver services and to deliver various elements to the Island. That takes people to deliver them but at the same time Government is under pressure from politicians about headcount. So if you want to increase vastly the amount of work being done but cannot do that within Government, because you do not have headcount and there are pressures on that, then arm's length organisations are one way to help deliver those things. Across the full range of arm's length organisations that is part of the work they are doing, which is really important.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

I appreciate the policy. We are talking about the actual tensions between the expertise and the actual, if you like, the supervision and the insurance that the ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Absolutely, and that is the role we play.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Can we go back to Deputy Matthews now, thank you.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Andrews .

Deputy M.R. Scott : Andrews , sorry.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I do wonder because I think you said Deputy Matthews earlier today and I was wondering. I was thinking I swear there is no Deputy Matthews.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

I am ellipting your Christian name and surname, sorry about that.

[11:00]

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Minister, in terms of, say, for budget allocations that are set for those organisations, if the Government was not stepping in do you think there would be a shortfall of private funding, and this is probably why they would not be able to achieve those objectives?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I think on past experience then yes. I would say from past experience there would be a lack of private funding. In fact, if you look to the early 2000s when the Government of Jersey withdrew pretty much entirely from arts and cultural funding it was left to various corporations to fill in and there were one or 2, they are names which really struck me as an Islander as being our entire arts and culture offering in the early 2000s was basically been carried by 2 banks in this Island. If those banks were not supporting something then it did not happen. I was really grateful as an Islander to those banks for supporting it. Understandably, by the time you got to the financial crash in 2007, 2008 such support was being withdrawn and we saw all the way through to the debate in 2019 that arts and culture funding in Jersey was minimal from Government and there was nobody stepping in from the private sector. One of the things that we are, and I am determined to do, and this speaks to the wider value for money piece on the A.L.O.s, is another element of arm's length organisations is that they do not just have to look to Government for funding. So we saw a couple of articles in the paper recently where arm's length organisations were bemoaning the fact that the Government was not increasing their funding. It was maintaining it at a steady level but it was not increasing it. The challenge I put to arm's length organisations is there is no cap on your funding, you can go as an arm's length organisation and find funding from corporations, from individuals. You can earn money, you can do all sorts of things. It does not have to be reliant 100 per cent on government funding. That is a culture that I would like, through this value for money project, to break. This idea that all the funding comes from Government or it does not come at all.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Just to say, I think that the Opera House was privately funded at some point. Was that not in the same decade? When you are talking about 2 banks ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: It was also government funding. No, that was in the 1997 to 2000.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Right, so that was just before.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: And it was government funded and privately funded.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

It is probably best we move on to the tourism strategy, Chair.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay, I am happy to ask that. I might follow up with some other questions.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Of course.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

In the matter of the tourist strategy, we note that we have a private briefing with you ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Sorry, I missed, which strategy, sorry?

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

Tourism. We note that we have a private briefing with you in early March and we will go into more details then. But for the purpose of this public hearing can you give an overview of the status of the tourism strategy and when this will be made public?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

So the tourism strategy is very much work in progress. We have an officer who is incredibly capable. She comes with an industry background in looking at tourism. So she has extensive knowledge of the tourism industry. She is working with a group of stakeholders at the moment, including people like Jersey Hospitality Association, Jersey Chamber of Commerce and others, Luxury Hotel Group, et cetera, to develop a tourism strategy. That is a piece of work that is ongoing. We are looking to ensure that it is done so that it can be ... any requirements that may fall out of it is available for the Government Plan at the end of this year. So it is very much a work in progress.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs : By the end of this year.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

But it is a key priority. I am concerned about tourism in Jersey and I am concerned from a strategic perspective in that a decline in tourism could impact our connectivity as an Island, and that for me is a really important strategic motivation to come up with a strategy which ensures we have a successful tourism industry going forward.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

Will this strategy be lodged for debate in the States Assembly? Will Members be given the opportunity to amend it and will the panel be given the opportunity to review and scrutinise it prior to lodging, if lodging?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

So strategies are not ordinarily lodged in the States of Jersey. I do not think that that would be a helpful element to debate it in the States, given that it will have been created with expert knowledge and the States, in general, is not an expert Chamber. Scrutiny would absolutely be involved in scrutinising the strategy itself, that is why we have Scrutiny Panels and that is really important. But I doubt it would ever be debated in the States. I do not think that would be an appropriate place and it could harm the strategy going forward.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Could I just have a little bit more detail about the manner of the public consultation? You have talked about different types of organisations but to the extent that you may have Islanders who have knowledge of tourism or even interest in private investment, are they being invited to engage in this process? Is there a way in which you are reaching out to them?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

There will be. Any strategy like this goes with public consultation at some stage. But the work is being done by the expert group, the steering group, which involves people who work in the industry. The reason we have chosen, for instance, the Chamber of Commerce is that the Chamber of Commerce with a wide-range of members ... sorry, let me start again. At the beginning, we were looking to just have as wide a scope of stakeholders as possible but we realised very quickly that it had become unwieldy with hundreds of people and you would never end up with a strategy at the end of the day. So what we have done is we have asked the J.H.A. (Jersey Hospitality Association), Luxury Hotel Group, Chamber of Commerce, particularly those 3 private organisations but they are representative organisations that have many members below them. So that if, for instance, you are the owner of a bar in Jersey and you want to feed into this strategy it is difficult for us to take all bar owners in Jersey separately and have them come to us and us filter through that. What we are saying is the Chamber of Commerce or the Hospital Association are now the conduit for people involved in the industry to channel their thoughts and thinking through. That is why we have done

that. The whole way we have designed this steering group is in order to be able to capture as many people as possible and as many views as possible but in a manageable way. Otherwise we will not have a strategy by the end of this year.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

For the purpose of the public record, why was the Visit Jersey office or public tourist office closed before publication of the strategy?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Why was the ...?

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

The Visit Jersey office, the public tourist office from Visit Jersey was closed.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: That was their decision.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

What effect do you see this having to the Island visitors if they do not have a drop-in point?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

They called me to explain their decision and one of the reasons that they took the decision was the lack of use of the tourist office. I think at most 4 per cent of visitors to the Island used it. So there was this significant lack of use. I expressed concern about, as many people have, the lack of having a tourism office. They were very keen to highlight the fact that people nowadays turn up with the tourism office on their phones basically through various providers. We have all travelled in many different countries, not gone to a tourism office but been very abreast of events, locations that we would want to visit. Basically people are using the internet to find this information. I expressed concern about the closure but I said: "Look, I am here to support these organisations which are the expert organisations when they want to innovate." This was a point of innovation from their perspective. I said: "Look, we will monitor it, you have to monitor it, but if, at the end of this year, it has not been successful then we will have to go back" but at the end of the day I want to empower people to make, especially when they are the experts in the field and I am not the expert in the field, I want to empower people to make the decisions.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Can I just ask a question there unless you are going to follow that up?

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

Yes, I just want to follow up on the 4 per cent you said. Was that over the last few years when it was the impact of COVID? Because then it will not be less than that.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

No, I believe it was 2019, I think, but double check with them. I mean I do not have the fact to hand but I remember 4 per cent standing out but I do not believe it was ... was it 2019?

Group Director, Economy: Yes.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So 4 per cent in terms of numbers or in terms of spend?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Numbers. Numbers of people.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay. So how did that relate to percentage of spend?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: This is about use of the public tourism office so ...

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Yes, and the tourists who use it spend money and I am just saying did they relate that to ... because you could perhaps have different types of spenders in terms of having different kind of patterns in terms of what they use.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

Having worked in the tourism office in Jersey in the past, it would be very difficult to be able to classify visitors to the tourism office by their level of spend. It would be an almost impossible number ... you would have to ask them: "How much are you spending in Jersey?"

Deputy M.R. Scott :

I know Visit Jersey do do exit surveys so it is ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Yes, but not whether they visited the tourism office necessarily or not.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So they do not have that in their survey?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: You would have to ask them.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

I am sorry, I thought you just said that they do not ask the question.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I would find it surprising if they did have a cross-reference between visitors to the tourism office and their level of spend. I think that is a rather obscure number.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

You would find that surprising if they did?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Yes. If they do, all the better, but I think it is quite an obscure measure.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

It is just simply a question I was asking, Minister, about whether they had given you any detail about the association of the number of visitors and the actual ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: No, they have not.

Deputy M.R. Scott : Thank you.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

The question on the tourism: what are you doing to mitigate the continuing decline in beds?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

That is part of this tourism strategy. That is a really important part of the tourism strategy. The officers, including Heath, and the officer who is more directly working on this, know that it is my most significant concern in the tourism industry at the moment. But we will work through this strategy and the strategy is aimed ... one element of the strategy will be aimed at stemming the decline in tourism beds.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

Any first point that you are thinking of ...?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: No.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

For the purposes of this strategy will there be reference to the economy report that was produced in connection with the bridging Island Plan review and part of its core evidence?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I do not know. I do not want to pre-empt the strategy because it is a work in progress. It is with officers at the moment. I have not seen any draft of the strategy.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

I mean engage consultants that produced recommendations in terms of the strategy and planning strategy for tourism. So I just wondered if there would be any reference to that report.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I do not know.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay, thank you. We are going to get on to Jersey Sport and Fort Regent, which I do believe our colleagues on the Environment Scrutiny Panel asked some questions of the Minister for Infrastructure yesterday. We note, Deputy Stephenson , that you have also been made the Assistant Minister for Infrastructure regarding sports lately. So could you please give an overview of the areas that the department of sport and culture is responsible within sports and how this overlaps, if at all, with the responsibility that currently lies with the Department of Infrastructure?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

Yes,  of course.   Under  the  Economy  Department  sports  policy sits there  and obviously the relationship with Jersey Sport, which is the main delivery partner for sport policy, under that there are areas of compliance and some work that we have done around anti-doping. So those kind of policy areas all sit with the Economy Department. Under Infrastructure it is sport; government-run sport facilities; so I can list them for you, if you would like me to. But it is Fort Regent currently, because it is currently still a sports facility, Les Quennevais, Springfield, Oakfield, Langford, Haute Vallée pool and 3G pitch, F.B. Fields, Grainville Playing Fields, Airport Playing Fields, Crabbé shooting ranges and Havre des Pas pool.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

That is great. That is useful for the record, thank you. How do you liaise with the Department of Infrastructure regarding the overlap?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

Regular meetings. We have got a schedule I think of a 3-week cycle currently as a Ministerial meeting. So I will sit down with the Minister and with the lead officers there. We will bring items to the table and discuss them. If issues or questions come up in between of course there can be other meetings or other conversations as well, but that is the formal structure that is currently in place there. Since I was given responsibility for sport early on in this term of office, I have had a good relationship with the Infrastructure officers already because there are obvious links there. So this Ministerial Decision just formalises that and sets it up in a more formal way going forward.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

There was a press report very recently that the latest proposal for the development of Fort Regent is no longer feasible. You, as Assistant Minister for Sport, was reported as saying that it would not be sustainable to staff Fort Regent with sports facilities staff once they have moved to the new Active gym at Springfield. But that you are working to champion the site as a future community facility and encourage Ministers to consider getting sport back into the Fort in some way. How do you plan to achieve these objectives?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

The current situation is that we are still moving forward with the decant of sport from Fort Regent as planned. There are massive issues at Fort Regent as we all know that are well-publicised that need sorting out. It is not a fit-for-purpose sports venue currently in the state that it is in. We are pressing ahead with taking sports out of the Fort. That speaks to your question about sports facilities staff.

[11:15]

When the new gym at Springfield opens, which is due in springtime, the plan is for sports facilities staff to move with that gym. The gym at Fort Regent closes. I presume a small number of staff are going to need to stay around at Fort Regent because we still have some sports organisations there who need to move to other places, which are not ready yet.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Thank you. You were focusing more on the mechanics of the facilities coming out.

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2): I am trying to move through your question.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

The actual question, if we could.

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2): So what would you like to know.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So, basically, you are working to champion this site as a future community facility and to encourage the Minister to consider getting sport back into the Fort in some way. We have also had the chief officer for the - and I will probably get this in the wrong order - Environment, Infrastructure and Housing Department in the Scrutiny hearing yesterday who suggested that there is some kind of ... that Fort Regent does not lend itself for sport so well; it has got an open space, it hosts different types of events, if you like, and that can interfere with sport. So I am just wondering how you square these kind of difficulties with your objective to bring sport back into the Fort.

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

I can tell you my personal view on that is that I do not agree with him. I have engaged an awful lot with sports over the past few months and there was a great need for all sorts of flexible sport space, from small studio spaces to large halls and courts, and we need more currently. We particularly need more around St. Helier where a third of the population live, where we want children particularly to be able to access those kind of facilities. We have got a big space up there and in my view I think filling large areas with winter gardens ... maybe we could use it in a better way. I would like to see sport use some of those spaces. I am not saying it needs to be completely sport; a community flexible space would be something that I would love to see. To speak to your point about how I want to achieve that, I will work to champion it. I will make sure that sport is involved in the discussions. The Future Places Group, that have it on their agenda, are aware of the opportunities and the needs that are out there.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So, just in light of the vision of having sports facilities and the concern that having sports staff is not sustainable and you move them over with the active gym at Springfield, what is your vision in terms of that staffing?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

The current model is not sustainable with the way the sports facilities are staffed. So that is just sport facilities, those that run the actual sports facilities. If you are going to open something like Fort Regent as a community facility, it goes without saying there is going to need to be staff there. So under the current model it is not sustainable to keep staff there long term in an ageing facility with huge problems but however many years down the line if it is opened as a community solution you would need a different model.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So under a different model, yes.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

So just looking currently, there have been a number of sports clubs who obviously had to find a new home. What pressure has that placed on the private sector in terms of looking at facilities to find sports clubs homes but also you are looking at potentially having a limited space, especially in the centre of St. Helier and that is where many people want to come; if it is before work they want to train at the gym or partake in a sports club. So you must have found there have been quite a few people lobbying you to provide answers and especially so in the short term as well.

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

All of the facilities conversations have been had before this term of office and all of those who were required to move out of Fort Regent had been found new homes, and some of them did find new homes in the private sector. There have been some really positive examples where they have moved from small spaces that maybe were not great and they have seen the vision and been able to develop. There is a very good example down by Weighbridge Place of exactly that happening. So there has been some movement into the private sector. Everyone has been accounted for, found a home. Some of those homes are not ready yet, so that is why we still have a number of clubs and organisations at the Fort. Personally, I have not come under pressure yet because that is still the plan that is in place. I think these recent conversations about Fort Regent have maybe led to some uncertainty.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

I guess one of the issues here with Fort Regent has been this uncertainty for a number of years now and especially when you are looking to generate income through gym memberships. In response to a written question, I saw there are about 2,000 less members. So what impact has that really had in terms of services?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

The reduction of members in the Active Card scheme has been largely due to COVID. I have been given an update this week that we are seeing those numbers start to recover and recover quite quickly. I think there will be an impact long term. We have also had an increase in the number of private gyms in Jersey as well, so there are a number of factors at play there. I think, yes, we are moving to a smaller, different style of gym down at Springfield. Parking at Springfield is an ongoing issue that everyone is very aware of as well. So I think there will be some changes there but it is on the radar.

Deputy M.B. Andrews : Okay. Thank you, Minister.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Coming back, because you were talking about a different model, and certainly what the public can see in terms of Fort Regent there seems to have been a number of different proposals on which the public and the public sector at times have also worked, come up with ideas and then they have gone nowhere. That has taken up time of professionals in the private sector and that has not been used, perhaps, in the way that they would regard productively. So does that not suggest that the way in which models are being produced for facilities like Fort Regent, the actual process needs to be reviewed itself?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

That is a very open question that I am sure we could all have some very different views on there. To me personally, Fort Regent is one of those local issues that is just ... it has gone on for years. We have been talking about it for decades. It has got such a high price tag and it is such a huge site with huge potential that we always go very big. The question I have in my mind currently with Fort Regent is: do we need to just rethink how we approach that and go to a Jersey-sized solution for Fort Regent, something that is realistic, is achievable? Should we be looking to complete in parts, close off sections of it if needs be and keep certain parts of it running and move round in a sensible, achievable way? I do not know. Some people then say we need vision, we do need to go big. Well, I would rather be part of a realistic Government that can then deliver on some of their aims, even if it is not a whole redevelopment, in 4 years.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

You certainly have my support there.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I completely agree with Deputy Stephenson . I think the Fort is primarily in most ... and our research shows this, that people want it as a community space and so that does not necessarily mean having to do enormous great projects. The Fort itself is a building with hundreds of rooms, which already can be used for many different things. I come at it from an arts and culture perspective.

Deputy M.R. Scott : And a leaky roof.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

But that is where I was going to get to. I had a discussion with the Minister for Infrastructure a while ago and we were talking about Fort Regent. Through that meeting it became clear that no previous Government had done a survey on the roof and so what we realised then ... which is one reason why we had the recent headlines about Fort Regent on hold; it is not on hold. It is a work in progress, but what we realised is you cannot make any decisions about the future of Fort Regent if you do not know whether the roof needs to be taken off, replaced, removed and not replaced. You need to know what the situation with that roof is before you start then thinking of what you are going to do with it. So the Minister for Infrastructure has taken it back a step and said exactly as Deputy Stephenson said, there is a right way to do these things. Starting with the actual fabric of the building and the roof, we know that there is asbestos in there, we know that the electrics need doing. We knew all that but no one has actually looked at the roof.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

That is to do with costing something before you come up with a strategy.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Understanding something before you come up with a strategy.

Deputy M.R. Scott : Understanding the costs maybe.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

Understanding all aspects. The fact that the roof is leaking does not necessarily ... it has a cost of repairing it but you could leave it stay there and leak if you wanted to do, so you need to understand the building. It is not necessarily always about the cost. It is understanding it in the whole, including the cost.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Right. In your dual role as the Assistant Minister for Infrastructure as well, you of course are aware that Fort Regent and all public estate are the subject of the Island public estate strategy. I just wondered if in terms of your vision for Fort Regent and other sports facilities and how that works with that strategy, could you talk a bit more about the gap analysis that has been developed for it and how that relates to sport?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

No, but officers in Infrastructure could certainly help support that discussion and I could go away and bring that to you.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

In terms of informing this evolvement or development for this strategy, has there been a ...

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2): What strategy?

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Of the Island public estate strategy, which will cover sports facilities and Fort Regent. Has there been ... are you clear about how you inform the actual strategy itself in terms of those?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2): No, but I can find out and come back to you on that.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Thank you. We might follow that up. I have got one last question before I move to Deputy Kovacs . Can you confirm if the proposed elite sport strategy has progressed since the last hearing, please?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

So we have an officer due to start later this month and it will be on her agenda from day one to hit the ground running with it. She is very experienced, has a lot of local knowledge and contacts and has been through elite sport programmes herself, so I have got confidence that she will get going very quickly on that one and make some progress.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Thanks. Any follow-up there? One of the questions we asked you before was in the sense of what you perceive to be elite sports for that purpose and you have mentioned the new officer's background in that. Would you be able to give us a little bit more of a picture of your vision there?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

That needs to be part of the scoping work that happens with it and the personal view, as I think I said last time, which was Commonwealth Games and beyond style of level. I appreciate we had discussions around dance and things and where that fits. All of that needs to be scoped and discussed.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

Talking about events, the Island has in the past successfully hosted the Island Games, which generated £4 million in income to the Island. What are the future plans for largescale sporting events on the Island?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

There are not any current formal plans. It is something that is very much in our minds and we have discussed Island Games recently, I think, as we have seen some of the comments that have come out of Guernsey there. So there is no formal sport event plan and I would like to see us in this term move towards perhaps using some of the models that are being developed as part of the arts strategy to develop some more formal structures and policies around that. Until now, they do not really exist.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Let us hope the Comptroller and Auditor General can work more of your vision in that respect too.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

What facilities are in place currently to host largescale events and are we able to accommodate everybody who would attend these events?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

I think it very much would be sport-specific and depending on what the infrastructure is. I know we do have occasions where we could bring infrastructure in that might be needed if it was seating and screens and that kind of thing. It is very sport or event-specific there. Do you have anything in mind that you specifically want to know about?

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

Maybe us hosting another Island Games, where to accommodate all these people coming over for that?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

As we are seeing in Guernsey, it is a challenge with accommodation. I think we would be confident in Jersey that we would have some scope. It would probably need us to be creative at this stage. Who knows where we would be? There is a schedule of events with the Island Games, so we would not be looking in the next 4 years, which means knowing how many beds we have is a very difficult prediction at this stage but there are opportunities. I think, as I have said in a public comment, I would not want to see us write off hosting an Island Games and I think there would be ways and means round it, whether you look at certain sporting events as part of it, as others have suggested, whether we partner with Guernsey and share in events. I think there are ways you could work creatively.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

This uncertainty of being able to fully accommodate, we have to be creative but it is still an uncertainty. Could this affect elite sport aspirations such as Jersey leagues elevation or even further developing sports?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2): I do not believe so currently.

[11:30]

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

We note also that the triathlon has been cancelled due to lack of funding. Please can you explain why this decision was taken and are there other areas of sport where funding has been cancelled?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

Just to clarify, it was not cancelled. There had been a 5-year agreement in place previously and that had come to an end. A new request for support had been made and it was that request that was turned down. So the request was for Government funding, if I get it correct, of £400,000, which is a huge amount of public money, and it was decided that it did meet the criteria. We have got here that a total of £600,000 ... I think £600,000 was the year before request, sorry. Dan, is that correct? The most current request is for £400,000. There was a request under the previous Government, which was for £600,000 support. That was to do with a lack of elite sponsor to do with the triathlon and that was turned down by the previous Minister.

Group Director, Economy:

That is correct but perhaps just for clarification because there were some previous administration decisions that relate to this. We had a 3-plus-2-year agreement with Super League. So in other words we gave them a 3-year run at it. Part of the contract was that they generated a significant

amount of public sector funding in order to reduce the burden on the taxpayer to provide the event. The reality is while we have pump-primed a really successful organisation, and I think that is a real positive, the direction of travel in terms of the request for Government funding was going in the wrong direction. I think at that point it was concluded that that was no longer value for money. At the lower level clearly we supported it but the trajectory around getting support from the private sector was going in the wrong direction. I personally believe, and we are discussing this with Ministers, that a more strategic approach to the events that we support going forward is required so it is not just first come first served. It is looking at events in a much more holistic way.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

Do you have any data on this level of funding before, how much income it generated for the Island and international exposure and everything?

Group Director, Economy:

We have got a lot of data that we could share. Obviously as part of each annual review we assess the impact, so we do have a lot of data that we could share.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

Will we be able to access it?

Group Director, Economy: Yes, we have got it available.

Deputy M.R. Scott : What might you offer us?

Group Director, Economy: I beg your pardon?

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Sorry, I was just thinking when an officer follows up, whether there is a specific item that you are thinking of that ...

Group Director, Economy:

If you want to send the Minister some questions, we can answer them specifically.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Just to follow up on what you were saying, and in fact what Deputy Stephenson was also saying and perhaps even what the Minister was saying, there is a bit of a theme that I am just spotting here, which does come up from time to time about the extent to which private investment may support sports facilities, arts and these things. I am also aware, Minister, that you are proposing to do a piece of work on it was something like barriers to investment.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Barriers to business.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Business. Will that extend to the extent to which there could be barriers, things that discourage private investment?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

The barriers to business piece of work is going to be led by businesses in Jersey in the sense of we are reaching out to businesses in the Island and asking them to tell us what are the things that slow you down.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Sorry, can I just repeat the question, because barriers to business could be interpreted in different ways. I am just saying does it extend to the barriers that might apply in terms of people being prepared to invest in private and government projects?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

It absolutely could do. I have got some on my list of things which I believe are barriers to investment in the Island already.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

But that is not the intention, can I just confirm that?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

It is partly the intention but the main intention of that piece of work is about processes within government and it is about saying which are the processes which are onerous, slow your business down and take hours of your day when they should be taking minutes at the most. So that is principally what that piece of work is.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Could that extend to Government responsiveness?

Absolutely.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay, thank you. I am just trying to establish that. Thank you. Sorry, Deputy Kovacs . Do go on.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

Also recent media reports have highlighted that the Jersey Bulls Football Club announced that they have had to drop out of a league cup due to travel costs. Can you outline the financial support that sports clubs on the Island receive and would you consider funding clubs such as the Jersey Bulls to ensure they can participate in tournaments?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

There are very different agreements in place with different sports through Jersey Sport and various different departments will have different agreements as well. Jersey Bulls and football generally at Springfield has had support through investment in Springfield and requirements to meet F.A. (Football Association) rules and guidance there. Sorry, what was the last part of your question?

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

Would you consider funding these sorts of clubs to be able to participate in tournaments?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

It is tricky when it is individual clubs like that. I love watching Jersey Bulls. I go with family. I enjoy it. They attract crowds of hundreds and it is a really good community thing to be doing. They are also local players representing the Island elsewhere, but they are just one football club and we have many football clubs in the Island, so there are questions around equality of opportunity there and quite how we assess things like that. Clubs are always welcome to contact Government, as they are with other organisations like the Jersey Community Foundation, which gives out the sports section of lottery funding as well. There are opportunities there and we would assess each application on a case-by-case basis, but I do really have in mind that equality of opportunity as well and I do not want to be picking out ones to favour at this stage.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Can I just please clarify something you were saying about the giving of grants? I was not clear whether Government itself directly gives grants or whether it is done through the Jersey Community Foundation.

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

A section of the lottery proceeds is designated for sports and that goes to the Jersey Community Foundation, which runs, I believe, 2 intakes a year of requests for funding.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Does Government fund anything directly in terms of travel costs for sports?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2): Via Jersey Sport, yes.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Via Jersey Sport, okay, thank you.

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

There are still some cases of sports development funding that goes through Jersey Sport from the old model, I believe. Football and netball still have small amounts that come from there, from the old model.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Do you know what the fund is called? We know that the Tourism Development Fund was used for that purpose and it no longer exists, so is there still an existing ...

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2): That comes from Jersey Sport's funding, so it goes to them.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

It is still Jersey Sport. Thank you.

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2): Yes, Jersey Sport.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

You said the new sport policy officer is due to start next month and will ...

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2): Later this month. I am counting down the days.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

You said you hoped that will be up and running as soon as. Can you confirm roughly by when we could see the first policies coming out or what you first have in mind for them to have in work?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (2):

The elite sport pathway is going to be a priority there and, as we have said previously, we need to have something finalised by the summer to get it through the Government Plan process if there is going to be a need for some funding, which I expect there will.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Just moving on to a few questions now based on the performance of the economy, business and inflation. With the fourth quarter rate of inflation being reported as 12.7 per cent, what is the expected rate of inflation in 2023 and how does the chief economist forecast this will affect the performance of the economy?

Chief Economic Advisor:

We have obviously got the F.P.P. (Fiscal Policy Panel) projections in place at this moment in time. We are meeting with them again on Monday to start the work towards the spring assumptions, which will be published next month. That will probably be a more accurate position than what I can give you right now. The current F.P.P. projections are R.P.I. (retail price index) inflation at 12.7 per cent. R.P.I.X. (retail price index excluding mortgage interest) is obviously lower at 8.6 per cent. It is expected to continue relatively high for the rest of this year before tailing off towards the end. I think that is probably not unexpected moving into the next set of projections as well. From an R.P.I. point of view, which includes interest rates, we do expect there probably to be a bit more pressure in that inflation figure coming up because of the most recent interest rate rises and perhaps one more to come as well, which will feed into the next quarter's R.P.I. projections, or actual rather than projections, sorry. But that will fall out quite quickly. The interest rates will start falling out of those inflation figures towards the back end of this year and we will start seeing that fall away then. There are other inflationary pressures such as in the R.P.I.X. where that might stay a little bit higher as well. We are definitely seeing food inflation in the U.K. (United Kingdom), which obviously we are highly reliant on in terms of that import level of inflation, and that will continue to feed through, we expect. So we do think inflation will stay relatively high through most of this year but probably start falling away towards the end of the year. Impacts on business and the economy ... obviously inflation is not a good thing for the economy. All of this was projected. The Government's mini-Budget worked on projections going forward of around that 12 per cent R.P.I. and the same kind of R.P.I.X. figures. It came in a little bit higher, mainly because of those interest rate rises that we saw towards the back end of last year, but a lot of the planning by Government has been done with those figures in mind. Obviously there are pressures around the economy because of that. The latest Business Tendency Survey I think was quite telling in that it was slightly split in its views. Obviously the finance

sector is going to be doing quite well from the recent interest rate rises and was very positive. Some of the other sectors were maybe not quite as positive as they had been in recent months, and that would be expected as well. So it is a mixed bag for the economy. Obviously with finance being such a driver for the economy, that will continue to stand up quite well because of those changes that have happened.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Can I just ask, you talked about your projections and of course that is probably based on some sort of model that you are using. In terms of the model that you are using, I guess that also references expected interest rates and that you, therefore, are referring to the Bank of England's own forecasts. I understand or at least I have been approached by some kind of analysts who are suggesting to me that interest rates could go up to 6 per cent. Do you believe that that is likely, improbable?

Chief Economic Advisor:

I think that is now less likely than it was perhaps 2 months ago. So if you look at the market forecasts of where they expect interest rates to be and apply that with the O.B.R. (Office of Budget Responsibility) in the U.K. and the Bank of England's own, I think the Bank of England is being quite clear that they expect it to top out at around 4.5 per cent, not reaching that 6 per cent. If you went back to the September period, the markets were definitely expecting it to hit 6 per cent. I think those fears have lessened now.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

In terms of certain forecasts from the Bank of England that have not proven particularly reliable, how much are you satisfied that they have improved their modelling, as it were?

Chief Economic Advisor:

I do not think it is improving their modelling. I think it is understanding the pressures that are going on. It is not the fact that their modelling was not working. They were maybe a bit slower to react in hindsight than they would have liked to have been had they been remaking those now. What we do obviously is always scenario planning and sensitivity analysis around what our central forecast is likely to be. So while we expect at this moment interest rates - and I am talking about base rates not mortgage rates - base rates to be around about that 4.5 per cent, we do sensitivity analysis and scenario analysis of what would be likely to happen if that increased further. Obviously from an inflation point of view, because our R.P.I. figure includes interest rates at such a high degree, if it did hit 6 per cent in the next 6 months inflation would go up again more than we are probably expecting. It would not fall away. That is what our scenario and sensitivity analysis would show but that is not what our central case law suggests will happen.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So you do not forecast rates going up to 6 per cent in the next 6 months or even a year?

Chief Economic Advisor:

I would expect that to be unlikely. I mean, it is not impossible but I would expect that to be unlikely.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Minister, of course you came into office during this very tough period with inflation being at 12.7 per cent. What discussions have taken place since our last public hearing with sector leaders and yourself and your officers?

[11:45]

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

We had a meeting of the Cost of Strategy Living Group, I cannot remember if it was last week or the week before, and this Government came into office talking about the cost of living. In the mini- Budget we raised tax thresholds, which effectively lowered the rate of income tax of all Islanders who pay tax. We helped people who receive income support and who were eligible for community cost benefits, we raised income support, we raised and made more available the community costs bonus to help people cope with the cost of living. I think that is a good example of the Government's attitude, which has been we do not have many levers to control the cost of living. Even the Bank of England only has levers which is like turning a tanker at the end of the day and so it takes time for these things to settle in. Our whole attitude has been about helping Islanders cope with the cost of living where we can. We have some tools such as the competition regulator and the Consumer Council but again they are very indirect tools and do their work as well, which is really important, but we are about helping people cope with the cost of living.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

As you stated, of course the Government do have limited levers available to you. So what would your message be, especially to those who are part of Jersey's lower income demographic? How should they best prepare for the next 12 months ahead?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I do not want to tell people how to run their own private finances but what I can say is that ...

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Sorry, I am going to interrupt here. I do not feel that this is related to business and industry and we have reduced time. I do feel we could just move to a more industry-based area, please.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Yes. Just looking at the first quarter in 2023, what sectors do you think have been most affected?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I think the Business Tendency Survey tells us that really well and it is basically those that are not the finance sectors. I do not have it to hand. Do I have some stats in here? But basically whether it is hospitality or construction, input costs have risen so rapidly. This happened with agriculture. I was meeting with farmers yesterday and they were talking about the staggering price rises that have taken place from an input cost perspective, and that is happening in all of those sectors. It is happening in the finance industry as well but for the finance sector, banking at least, the rise in interest rates is definitely offsetting the increase in input costs. The biggest increase for most sectors has been in wages.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Has this been with non-payroll expenditure that some sectors are mostly affected by or is it payroll expenditure?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

It is a combination of both, absolutely, for sure. For instance, in agriculture we know that the price of fertiliser has risen in some cases by up to 100 per cent, so that beats the payroll rise, but in other sectors it will have been the payroll rise that has led the way and materials, et cetera, have not been quite as big, but across the board it is a combination of the 2.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

If we are moving from the first quarter into the second quarter, do you think there could potentially be any changes that might transpire in that period?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I think we have seen particularly, given that Jersey's supply chain is routed through the U.K., the levelling off or in fact the decrease in energy costs. That I think will have a really big impact or should have a beneficial impact on Jersey. Unfortunately as Islanders know - and it is not just Islanders - prices tend to rise a lot quicker than they come down. While energy costs at the wholesale level have decreased significantly in the U.K., whether that is then passed on to consumers, businesses in the U.K. remains to be seen, but it should be passed on to businesses in the U.K. Those businesses engaged in Jersey's supply chain should be able to pass on the decrease in energy costs to Jersey itself, but we will have to wait and see whether that happens.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Minister, if I could just follow up from Deputy Andrews , you have mentioned the finance industry, you have mentioned agriculture or finance industry ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I have mentioned hospitality and construction as well.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Yes. So, in terms of the discussions that you have had, and clearly you have had them in agriculture, in terms of the measures that you might support business ... so obviously with the agricultural industry you have got a whole subsidy model there, but in terms of the measures that might be introduced in your discussions with business leaders in other areas, what perhaps is being raised in terms of requests for support or how you might support? Is anything coming through there?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I have not had any direct requests for support, but what I am doing from the perspective of this is things like the ease of doing business in Jersey piece of work, et cetera, is about trying to remove barriers and therefore reduce costs of doing business. I know as someone who has run a small business and lives with someone who has run a small business how much time and, therefore, money can be wasted on dealing with ridiculous processes inside government. That is absolutely an area that I am focusing on.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Productivity. Okay, thank you. We are just going to move on Deputy Kovacs I think because we have got limited time but we can follow up with a question if need be. Okay, so supply chain management.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

In matters of supply chain management and resilience, we note in the media there has been coverage regarding supply chain management in the context of civil contingencies. Which Minister has overall responsibility for civil contingencies?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: The Minister for Home Affairs.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

What input do other Ministers have to the civil contingency aspect of supply chain?

The Ministers that are involved overall in resilience are the competent authorities. They are the Minister for Infrastructure, the Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture, the Minister for Home Affairs, the Treasurer. I believe the Chief Minister obviously is a competent ... is she a competent authority? I think she is, and I may have missed one there. That may be the Minister for the Environment. There are about 5 Ministers who are competent authorities and each of them has a particular area for which they have responsibility. In the case of the Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture it is food supply. The Minister for Health and Social Services I think is a competent authority.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

You are mentioning that. In a written question in December last year, the Chief Minister mentioned that the Government's Tactical Co-ordination Group includes a supply chain cell that meets regularly and assesses ongoing resilience of the Jersey supply chain.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: That is correct.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

Who are members of the supply chain cell?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I will have to ask Dan.

Group Director, Economy:

There is a number of fora that deal with supply chain. The Tactical Co-ordination Group is just one, which is a supply chain cell, which is correct. That includes effectively business continuity, risk economy and emergency planning. It meets on a regular basis, once a month more or less. There are also specific cells for dealing with specific geopolitical situations at the moment. I do not want to give too much detail on our emergency planning issues in public but what I can say is that Economy are embedded in those aspects of the supply chain where it is appropriate, working closely with our risk teams, our business continuity teams and our emerging planning teams.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Are you able to say which officers are members of this particular cell, the supply chain cell?

Group Director, Economy:

If I am able to. I do not know whether I can in a public hearing but I will look into that and if we can we can provide it following up.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

Just for clarification, which part of the Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture has input into this supply chain cell, the civil continency part?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Sorry, I do not understand what you mean.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

What is the input of ... you said it is a collaboration of multiple Ministers.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

The Emergencies Council is, and the Emergencies Council is made up of competent authorities. Different Ministers have different responsibilities as competent authorities. The one I have is food supply.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

Food supply, okay. The Island's major supermarkets are committed to the U.K. for the bulk of their supply, such as Waitrose and Partners, the Co-op, Morrisons and Iceland. With a population of about 103,000, and also with the recent news of Nostos Marine going into receivership, what information does the Minister have that makes him believe that the southern route is viable?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

Principally demand. As I speak to businesses in Jersey, I know that there is demand in different areas, in different sectors from hospitality through construction into agriculture and other areas as well, retail as well. I believe that there is demand. On top of that, I just strongly believe that an Island that is reliant on a single point of failure for its entire supply chain, and that single point of failure is Portsmouth ... we are therefore not in a particularly resilient position should something go wrong there. It is Portsmouth and obviously the ferry journey down from there. So there is also that element of my thinking, which is common sense, which says that we are closer to St. Malo and Granville. The seas between here, St. Malo and Granville are calmer, they are less weather-affected than the northern route, which is much longer, far more weather-affected. So there is sense in saying we should at least see if we can open up a stronger supply chain from the south to complement the supply chain from the north and, therefore, increase the resilience of the Island.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Minister, can I just ask, would you say that the major supermarkets agree with your thinking? As Deputy Kovacs has said, they are committed to the U.K. for the bulk of their supplies, so I just wondered if in terms of the discussions that you say you have had with them that they are supporting of your ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I think the major supermarkets understand why I have this thinking.

Deputy M.R. Scott : Have they said that?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I do not think they are entirely supportive but I also think they know that opening up a southern supply route brings competition or the potential for competition, so if I was a supermarket ...

Deputy M.R. Scott :

But it also could bring failure.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

If I was in Jersey as a supermarket and at the moment everything is routed via the U.K. that effectively means that you cannot have competition from Europe. So if I was a supermarket, I personally might not want to have a southern supply route, which would open up competition to supermarkets from Europe.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So you are saying that they are conflicted so that you are not ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I think they have an interest. I do not think it is conflicted, it is interest.

Deputy R.S. Kovacs :

If the southern route was started, can the Minister guarantee the viability and also the availability of freight on both the north and south routes?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I cannot guarantee anything. I am a person with Ministerial responsibility. I am not the guarantor of freight routes. This is something that I am trying to work with the private sector on. This is not something that I am doing from a public sector perspective. We are not seeking to set up a Government of Jersey ferry company and take it there and open up a supply route in that way. The success of this will depend on engagement from the private sector and so if we can get engagement from the private sector then I believe it can be successful.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

In that respect, you have already had one French supplier who has gone into receivership and that was recently reported as well as your ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I think it is an incorrect thing to say I have already had one French supplier go into receivership.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Not you personally, of course.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

They are a company that made some decisions, which I think made it more likely that they were not going to succeed.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So in terms of viability, certainly it was not viable for them to ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

They made particular decisions, which I think made it much less likely that they would succeed. I do not believe they can be used as an exemplar for the success or otherwise of that route.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

You also are saying you cannot guarantee the viability of both the north and south routes.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Who could guarantee the viability?

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So might there, therefore, be a risk that in terms of, if you like, encouraging freight split in different directions that you could risk a failure in both areas?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I think that is much less likely than a failure in one area.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

To what extent have you explored this and with whom?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

In the conversations with people. As I say, on all sides of that there are differing opinions. I say let us leave it to the market to find out. This is about enterprise, this is about empowering people and trying to protect Jersey from shocks that ... quite simply, if there was a major strike in Portsmouth, Jersey would lose its food supplies and that to me is a risk that is not worth taking. I am asking the private sector if they are interested in opening up supply routes via the south. If they are not interested, then we will not be opening up supply routes via the south. If they are interested, we will. The market will then determine how things operate from there. I do not for a second think that a supply route from the south will overtake supply routes from the north. I do not think. I believe they will complement. I believe they will provide greater competition in both goods and on prices, so both choice and on prices. We have interest from businesses in Europe that are interested in investing in Jersey. That is bringing investment to our economy and I think that is a very good thing.

Deputy M.R. Scott : Subject to what?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Subject to there being a regular freight route.

[12:00]

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay. So subject to there being a regular freight route, and you have talked about your belief, have you had an actual business plan or an actual business case ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I do not need a business plan for something the Government is not funding.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay. So you do not feel that there is a risk that by developing more of a ... putting more freight on to the southerly route that this might ... sorry, in terms of the French-Jersey route that this may cause problems in terms of logistics and the viability of the route with the U.K.?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I believe in the ability for an enterprising economy to do fantastic things and I believe if you hand over and say to people: "Look, this is something that is interesting, this is something that I believe will be beneficial to the Island", then we leave it to the players in that market to find ways to make it happen or not happen as the case may be.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Then how come you do not do that when you ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I am not worried and I will not be beholden to people trying to scaremonger the idea. I just look at the ... I can only ...

Deputy M.R. Scott :

You are talking about free market economics.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I can only look at the experience that we have in Jersey. In Jersey we used to have far better connectivity to Europe than we do today. Okay? That went on for decades and decades and decades. We had a much lower population in those days and yet we had much better connectivity.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

We had more hotel beds.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I believe that we should not be beholden to the interests that say: "This is the only way to do it." I believe if you do not try you will never find out, so let us give it a go.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So in this particular area then it sounds as if you are promoting free market economics whereas you make a distinction in areas like farming and fishing and in other areas. So could you please explain a bit more about the distinctions that you are making?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I believe that this is something that is best left to the private sector.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

You mean free market economics?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: No, I mean enterprise.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Thank you. It was recently reported that the Minister had talks with retailers from the E.U. (European Union) in regard to establishing business operations in the Island.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I have not spoken to anybody.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

That is fine because I was about to say "apparently". So you have not spoken to ... right.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I have not spoken to a single retailer in Europe. Others have spoken to them.

Deputy M.R. Scott : Others?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Others within Government and outside of Government, but I have not.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay. So in terms of the others who have had those conversations, might you disclose are these others doing this on your behalf or ...

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: They are acting ... yes, I would say that they are.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So are you able to inform the panel who the talks were held with?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: No.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Right, okay. Are you able to share with us what the retail supermarkets' spend is in the Jersey economy?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

Off the top of my head I do not have that figure, but of course we can find it for you.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Thank you. Can you confirm what role, if any, Ports of Jersey and the J.C.R.A. (Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority) has with regards to the supply chain management and civil contingency strategy?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

Obviously Ports of Jersey is a part of any discussions regarding civil contingencies and they are involved in that development, but that is work under the Minister for Home Affairs so I shall not comment.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

The J.C.R.A. are within your remit though.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: The J.C.R.A. is within my remit, yes.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay. Recommendation 7 of their freight logistics market study, which you are aware was published on 27th July 2022, recommends support for French trading links with realistic and consistent supply chain resilience in light of the size of the ... sorry, this is a question. Is that recommendation that recommends support of French trading links realistic and consistent with supply chain resilience in light of the size of the Island, economies of scale and what you said about the fact that local supermarkets and most other major suppliers are parts of U.K.-based enterprises or franchise operations that ship from the U.K.?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I do not understand the question, sorry.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Basically, there is a recommendation 7 in the J.C.R.A. report on the freight logistics market study that does recommend support for French trading links.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

But support does not necessarily mean cash. Support just is a wide-ranging word that can be used in all sorts of ways.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

That was not particularly the question. It is more in terms of how realistic and consistent is this approach to supply chain resilience that we are seeing in terms of the civil contingency strategy and the economies of scale for the Island?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I am really sorry, you have lost me.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay. Let us go back to this ... if I perhaps break it down more simply. We were having a discussion about the north and south supply routes and we are aware that recommendation 7 of the freight logistics market study does recognise that in terms of competition that is one way to do it. We also have talked about the possible tensions, or indeed the actual logistics, and you have said you should leave it to enterprise. I am just asking: has there been any risk assessment in terms of what will happen if we do?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I do not believe so.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Do you think one should be done?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

No, because I believe that today if I had the money to start a ferry company, freight company from France, I am able to do that today. There are no rules or regulations that stop me from doing that, so I am literally just asking whether people are interested in doing that and if they are then that is fine.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So it is something you are exploring then?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

Yes, I am asking the enterprising elements in our society to explore that as a possibility and if they would like to go ahead with that I think that would be a really good thing for the Island.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay, thank you. What are the risks of the Island being without an emergency supply of, for example, water and electricity? What contingencies are in place to mitigate such risks?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

I do not have responsibility for water or electricity, so you would have to ask the Minister for Infrastructure who does have.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay. So in terms of those sort of supplies to industry, that is something we ask the Minister for Infrastructure. Thank you.

Group Director, Economy:

Chairman, if I may just add a little bit of clarification. Notwithstanding the Minister's answer, there are significant civil contingencies and emergency planning going on in the background on all of this. I think from an economy perspective it is as the Minister suggested. There is an aspiration to explore the opportunities for the supply chain, I think, which is a good idea on the basis of resilience and reliance on a single northern supply chain is understandable but less risky than having 2 routes. So we are having a look at all of those options. We have contingency if something goes wrong at Portsmouth, we have got contingency if something goes wrong with Condor, so I would not want in a public hearing to suggest that we are not part of all of that and that does not exist, because it does.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So when you say you are looking at it, you are doing risk assessment?

Group Director, Economy:

No. The civil contingency that sits at Home Affairs is clearly doing a lot of emergency planning, not just on supply chain, on a number of different issues and, as I said earlier, in the context of supply chain there is the specific Tactical Co-ordination Group and there is a separate cell around some certainty of political challenges that the world is facing at the moment as well. So there is very significant civil contingencies and emergency planning going on in the background. What we have seen with the supply chain to date is that it is very resilient to COVID and Brexit and so on and so forth. I would suggest that the logistics companies and supermarkets, for example, manage that well. We have no sign that they have not been able to deliver on behalf of the Island in my experience at all. That is not to say that we should not be looking at how do we mitigate the risks that exist in everything that we do, and that certainly is happening. So I think that is a really important point.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

We do have the Community Risk Register, which is an important document and includes a risk assessment of various elements of the Island.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

The Community Risk Register is held where?

Group Director, Economy:

It is a central government ... it is the highest level of Island-wide risk, which is why it is called the Community Risk Register.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So does that extend to the scenario in terms of the supply chain?

Group Director, Economy: Yes.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay, and the potential pressures on it?

Group Director, Economy:

Absolutely and it is highly detailed. You would expect any grown-up jurisdiction to have such things in place and it is in place. Obviously the challenge in a public setting is we do not want to give everybody our emergency plans away necessarily in public because not everybody has got good intention, but I want to reassure ... because I sit on a lot of groups, I want to reassure the panel that that exists.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

I think what we need to distinguish is the actual risk of policies having a certain effect on that scenario, so it might be just be one step away from that, do you think?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: But there is not a policy. With regard to southern route, there is not a policy.

Deputy M.R. Scott : Okay, or a lack of one?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

You could say there is a lack of policy.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Okay, which I presume that does not actually address then from what you are saying because it is specifically to do with if there is a collapse. How do you deal with that?

Group Director, Economy:

It is a difficult question to answer. I think the only way I can answer is to say if a southern supply chain was economically viable and people started to look at that, that is a matter for them. If there are issues or considerations that were Government considerations then we would have to start looking at it. It is not straightforward as it stands from a legislative perspective, for example. So we would have to make a judgment call on how we would look at that from a risk perspective.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

I am just aware there is a certain amount of energy that is being put in, so it is having that discussion. So, where was I? I think we will move on to Deputy Andrews and digital policy.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Moving on to the Tech Accelerator Fund, we did have a joint briefing with the Corporate Services Panel, which I am also a member of as well. Minister, please may you provide us with an update in terms of the workload that you have currently been undertaking?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

Absolutely. I think you will have heard from the briefings that you had that the workload for the design of the strategic programme plan is undertaken by Digital Jersey as the lead delivery partner. The work involves having a design partner, which you met with, who concluded their work in December and provided a range of assets including a blueprint to their view of the fund, which is again an external view, which is not actually the document for the plan, and provided that to Digital Jersey. Digital Jersey are now working on a strategic programme plan, which they have in draft, something I have not seen, and they have had conversations with their board around the presentation of that to the Minister and obviously to myself as having delegated responsibility for digital.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

What discussions have taken place with Digital Jersey's board and with both of you as Minister and Assistant Minister?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

Depending on whether we are looking at governance or strategic direction of where investment might be, we have had a range of conversations. We meet as a task and finish group, which I chair with Government officers, with the accountable officer and the S.R.O. (senior responsible officer) and with members of D.J. (Digital Jersey) to look at how we align on the direction of the fund. I met with the Digital Jersey board when they had their board meeting last week to provide them, in essence, a steer as to my perspective as to how the fund may need to take shape, although understanding that I did not have a copy of their draft strategic programme plan, which may address many of the areas we talk about.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Was everybody in agreement or were there some disagreements, would you say, in those discussions?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

The reality is there are always going to be not necessarily disagreements but different perspectives as to the identity of the fund programme or, as you may have heard, potentially Impact Jersey as a name for this, which is, in essence, independent of Digital Jersey who are a delivery partner ... the identity of what that looks like and that really just means we need to all work together to understand how that looks. I am advocating for a principles-led approach to understanding the identity, so thinking about the principles of how you choose programmes to invest, how you assess outcomes on those. I think if you remember from the briefing we had the question when something is a grant in essence or funding without taking equity, how do you measure the impact to the Island: is it programme-based, who would scrutinise that? That is all being talked about and I am sure once as Government we get access to Digital Jersey's strategic programme plan, we will use that as a basis to have that further conversation.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

In terms of course when you are looking at reportative measures, you have a delivery partner but there also needs to be information that is also reported back to you as a department. How are you going to ensure the information is going to be methodical so you can appraise information intricately?

[12:15]

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

As you might have heard from the discussion as to how the form of governance looks, the delivery partner would seek approval from the oversight board, which is formed of the Treasurer of the States, the accountable officer, the senior responsible officer and an independent member, who would then take a recommendation to the Minister at every programme for funding. One of the principles that I

think is important in this is a transparent communication outside of potentially meetings that a board would have between the delivery partner and the oversight group or oversight board about progress. Something that will make tracking projects or things that are funded much easier is a principle about the openness of projects delivery, mid-delivery. I think if you look at a lot of challenge funds or grant funds there is often a tendency to have a big release that a project is funded or launched, but that accountability throughout design, delivery and test and ultimately implementation phase - or close phase if it is a pilot - I think is lacking in a lot of funds. We have got a chance to really address that head on without bureaucracy by making a lot of that information open to the public and then keeping some of the reporting really agile, methodical and detailed, back to the oversight board. But it is about constant communication and openness between the projects, Digital Jersey and the oversight board.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

I think quite a lot of Islanders are very intrigued because this is obviously something that is new to the Island, so in terms of implementation and timeframe when could we actually expect to see something be delivered?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

So we are expecting the strategic programme plan to be delivered to Government as a draft shortly. That will then be looked at by the members of the Task and Finish Group, and then also we will take it to Council of Ministers. We were looking at quarter 2 of the fund but I think really I am not going to pre-empt anything here until we have understood that. Every partner in this is aligned on the identity of the fund, its purpose and how we measure outcome.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So can I just be clear, the strategic programme plan is a proposal?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

The S.P.P. (strategic programme plan) is the governance document about how the fund will run.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

But it is a proposal that you can accept or reject, or not?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1): It is a plan that you can accept, amend or reject.

Deputy M.R. Scott : As Minister, yes, okay.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

We will also just speak a bit about Digital Jersey themselves. So of course there is a digital strategy that was formally delivered, and now there is a new one. However, what were the strengths and some of the challenges with the former strategy within that 5-year period that were encountered?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

When we talk about digital strategy, Digital Jersey have obviously launched last year their own 5- year strategy, or are we talking about Government of Jersey's 2017 or 2018 digital strategy, which was the last time Government refreshed their digital economy strategy. Which one are we?

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

So we are speaking about the digital strategy with Marchmont Employment and Skills Observatory at the University of Exeter.

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1): The digital skills strategy?

Deputy M.B. Andrews : Yes.

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

So that is again a separate piece of work that Digital Jersey have done much closer in line with their relationship and sometimes funding from C.Y.P.E.S. (Children, Young People, Education and Skills). They did a refresh of that which is what you may have seen, or I think you attended the launch?

Deputy M.B. Andrews : Yes, I did indeed.

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1): What part are you looking for?

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

In terms of say the former strategy, surely there would have been some successes that were seen and also some challenges as well. Identifying what those successes and challenges were, what was evident to you across that 5-year period that really stood out?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

My relationship on that is adjacent to the Minister for Education so the Minister for Education's department have a digital education strategy that, in essence, tries to fall in with the digital skills strategy. I think the issue I identify in skills is, to an extent, around some of the technical skills we have and the ability we have to mature our existing workforce to develop technical and digital skills beyond just the adjacent industries of digital, such as media and marketing. I would really have to go into that but I would be happy to ...

Deputy M.R. Scott :

We have got 10 minutes, so have you got enough time to do your remaining questions? Would you like to request some more time? I am just trying to ...

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

I should be okay to ask my questions. Just in terms of, say, the delivery of the new strategy, what do you think is newly implemented this time around compared to what was maybe absent in the last strategy?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

I would have to take that away and compare between the 2. Obviously the previous strategy that Digital Jersey are there to execute, that is not a Government strategy we are executing. It is still part of ... this is a refresh Digital Jersey delivered, but I will definitely take that with Digital Jersey so we are up to date.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Can I just ask one point because you have ... there seems to be a distinction that we are talking about in terms of a Digital Jersey strategy and a government strategy, so what do you own?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1): What do we own, yes ...

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Yes, what do you as Minister own because I think it would be helpful here.

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

Yes, so Digital Jersey have strategies or plans; a 5-year plan, obviously a yearly operational plan that comes to department. They have refreshed their digital skills strategy and also done so in line with the digital education strategy from C.Y.P.E.S. What the Government of Jersey Digital Policy Unit own is the formation of a digital economy strategy that currently we have our officers working on. That is independent of Digital Jersey.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

When might we see something along those lines? You said you have got an officer working on that so are you expecting to produce a document that we can review at some point and, if so, when?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

We are working on some early stage ideas as the focus. The question proposed when looking at the strategy is how ambitious are we going to be. We have tried to almost come up with an option one, 2 and 3 as to how ambitious and we are still working through where between those options we fall, but there is a lot of work going on. If scrutiny have a view as to the panel being involved in a certain way we are more than welcome to working with you.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

We might request a briefing on that.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Also as well, it was just highlighted on page 8 of the digital strategy, so between 2023 to 2028, that Jersey is behind London and Edinburgh in the uptake of digital use by approximately 6 per cent across all sectors. Minister, how can Digital Jersey influence the uptake of digital use through the Digital Academy, connections with industry, government and education to reduce the current digital- use gap across the period of the strategy?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

Again that is a Digital Jersey strategy and to what the Minister described about the role of an arm's length organisation bringing their expertise, that is a conversation we have with Digital Jersey to understand how they would like to bring a proposal to best articulate what they believe is the way to address it. We are coming up to the end of the partnership agreement we currently have with Digital Jersey - that runs out at the end of this year - and we have now got a good, long runway to make sure that we have again got a good new partnership agreement that helps us address that relationship and helps Digital Jersey.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Can I just come in here? So you are renewing this partnership agreement when exactly?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1): The partnership agreement ends at the end of this year, 31st December.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

When you renew it will you be reviewing things like K.P.I.s (key performance indicator) or including them?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

Absolutely. The review of partnership agreement will start shortly. It has to be again in line with the fact that Government will now have a digital economy strategy by the time the end of this partnership agreements comes, so there will be reviews starting shortly.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

In terms of, say, the partnership agreement, is there anything that you would like to see be done that has not been attempted so far to date?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

Perhaps, but I think I probably would not well-articulate that. I think what we need, and I am sure the Minister and Dan in the review of the A.L.O.s, is perhaps a greater set of consistency across our A.L.O.s. One thing I know, with the officers reviewing 11 operational plans, is looking at how we understand consistency across that delivery, and I think it is not something I want to answer alone but more in kind of an understanding as to how does any new partnership agreement align with best practice across all A.L.O.s.

Group Director, Economy:

Perhaps I might add that Digital Jersey is not the only partnership agreement that comes to an end in 2023, there are a number. That, I think, provides an opportunity to work with our colleagues in commercial services to get effectively a one-size-fits-all template for partnership agreements so we have exactly the consistency that the Minister has just talked about. So this is part of the Government's approach to bringing in more consistency of approach where appropriate, notwithstanding the fact that underneath the partnership agreement sits another set of documents that are much more specific, so strategic plans and business plans as well. There is significant governance but there is an opportunity at the moment to make sure we have got a contemporary and modern approach to the relationships that we have.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

So if we are able to be brief here, otherwise I will follow it up in writing, but are you able to briefly say what the other partnership agreements are that are going to be ...

Group Director, Economy:

Off the top of my head I cannot remember.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

We will follow it up in writing then.

Group Director, Economy:

Yes, I mean, Visit Jersey is another one, for example.

Deputy M.R. Scott : Yes, okay.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Also as well, on page 13 of the digital strategy it was mentioned about Jersey potentially being a location for a testbed for international companies, and it has also been highlighted by a couple of Ministers in the media since the States Assembly reconstituted. So have there been any discussions or any progress that has been made in this area?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

Again that is a Digital Jersey strategy. I think when we look at the opportunity for Jersey to grow its digital economy one thing that we took away from the meeting with the Ambassador of Estonia was that, yes, they have 10 unicorn companies but actually that critical mass forms from one successful company, which was Skype. So there is a huge amount of value in looking for success. Of course understanding the identity of the Technology Accelerator Fund in helping breed success or talent and Jersey initiatives could be a key player in that, but I have not had any conversations especially with external companies looking to use Jersey. There is a role that we need to play as Government in potentially being an enabler with non-financial incentives. As a testbed a lot of that is about the infrastructure Government provides. One thing we heard from a member of Impact Canada was that some of the most successful ways they deliver success to businesses and support is through non-financial offerings; access to laboratories or maybe our infrastructure. But we can definitely explore that.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

So in terms of, say, domestically we might be lacking in specialisation across the economy in certain areas, so do you think it would be a good opportunity to be bringing forward proposals where the right people can be coming into the Island, and that could potentially reinvigorate the economy to a certain extent where domestically people might be incentivised if they see something successful internationally being successful in Jersey, and that could potentially increase our business supply across more high growth sectors such as tech?

Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture (1):

That is completely a possibility as to how do you attract that. I would not want to say too much without thinking about our wider inward investment strategies, and like with a population policy and strategy that falls under the Chief Minister's remit. But it is entirely possible. My thinking is always how do you ensure things are done in a way that make Islanders and those who live here feel that they are treated fairly.

Deputy M.B. Andrews : Okay. Thank you, Chair.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Thank you very much. Minister, just coming back to the piece of work about the - and I know this is the wrong term - but if you like the trade barriers. I think we are talking obstacles to business. What is the specific name for that please? I just need to be reminded.

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I do not know if there is a specific name. Removing barriers to business.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Removing barriers to business. Could you just say who is doing that work?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Jersey Business are doing that work.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Jersey Business are doing that work. When do you expect that work to be produced?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Later this year. Towards the end of this year.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Do you know anything about the process, the method of consultation?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture:

The terms of reference are signed off. They are undergoing a period at the moment of designing how they are going to go about that.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Could the panel have a copy of those terms of reference?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: I believe so. I believe it is effectively a business case, yes.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

Sure, okay, just to be clearer in terms of how that kind of works, because I think you said that it was intended to extend to inward investment but you are saying that the business plan has already been signed off?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: The terms of reference.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

The terms of reference, and they do refer to inward investment or not?

The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture: Off the top of my head I do not remember. I signed them off in October.

Deputy M.R. Scott :

We will have a look at them and might come back to you on that then. Anybody got any other points? We may well be following up in writing if you can bear with us. Thank you very much for attending and thank you in particular, because I know that we have extended the time for this review and so it probably is a bit more work in that respect. Thank you. I will declare this closed then.

[12:30]