Transcript - Rural Economy Strategy - Mr J Garton (Genuine Jersey) - Transcript - 4 June 2010

STATES OF JERSEY

Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel Rural Economy Strategy 2011-2015 Review

FRIDAY, 4th JUNE 2010

Panel:

Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville (Chairman) Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour Deputy D.J.A. Wimberley of St. Mary

Witness:

Mr. J. Garton (Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey)

In attendance:

Mr. D. Scott (Scrutiny Officer)

[12:02]

Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville (Chairman): Welcome to the Scrutiny. This is your first time.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey: Thank you. It is.

The Deputy of Grouville :

You missed the intros last time. We will introduce ourselves for the purposes of the tape and if you could do likewise.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey: Okay.

The Deputy of Grouville :

I must bring to your attention this notice. It just explains about the immunity of any evidence you give here. The transcripts will be sent to you. I am Deputy Carolyn Labey . I  am Deputy of Grouville . I  am Chair of this sub-panel for the Rural Economy Strategy.

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour :

I am Roy Le Hérissier, Deputy of St. Saviour .

Deputy D.J.A. Wimberley of St. Mary :

Hello. Daniel Wimberley, Deputy of St. Mary . Nice to meet you.

The Deputy of Grouville :

If you could just say your name.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

My name is John Garton. I have 2 titles. I will give you them both. The first is Executive Director of Jersey Product Promotion Limited. The second is Chief Executive Officer of Genuine Jersey or Genuine Jersey Products Association, to give you its full title.

The Deputy of Grouville :

Thank you. Could you just give us an overview of the organisation of Genuine Jersey and J.P.P.L. (Jersey Product Promotion Limited) and the membership and the consultation that occurs, if any, over this document?

Okay. I will start off with the first question. Jersey Product Promotion Limited was formed in September 2008, principally to enable my employment to commence, but also to take better control over the activities at Genuine Jersey Products Association. So Jersey Product Promotion Limited - which I will refer to as J.P.P.L. if I may to speed things up a bit - is grant funded by E.D.D. (Economic Development Department) and there is a partnership agreement in place that specifies pretty clearly what it is that J.P.P.L. is charged with doing in order to continue to receive a grant, which is paid quarterly in advance. The main remit of J.P.P.L. is to promote local product both in the local market place and overseas. J.P.P.L. itself is owned by a special purpose trust and has trustees and directors. Those directors are Jonathan Jones, Jersey Pottery, Tim Crowley, La Mare, on the private side, and on the public side is Wayne Gallichan and Donna Le Marrec; Wayne representing overseas and Donna Le Marrec local. Effectively J.P.P.L. employs me. I receive a salary from that and I am Company Secretary as well as Executive Director. I am the only employee of that company. My services are used to administer Genuine Jersey. So for local product locally we use the Genuine Jersey brand. Effectively that is a marketing organisation. It is a public-private partnership. So we get some money in from government. Some of the money that comes from E.D.D. flows through J.P.P.L. into Genuine Jersey, about £70,000. We get subscriptions from members of Genuine Jersey that top that up, which becomes a marketing budget to promote the Genuine Jersey brand and develop that brand. Genuine Jersey itself has a management committee, Independent Chairman, Ken Syvret; Deputy Chairman, Peter Tabb; and then there are some civil servants and some private enterprise to keep that public-

private partnership feel. We have Iain Norris for Environment, who sits through all those meetings; Trevor Le Roux, Trading Standards; Donna Le Marrec, Tourism; and on the private enterprise is Jonathan Jones, Tim Crowley, who comes from that board, and Christopher Journeaux from the dairy. We also have a representative from J.F.U. (Jersey Farmers Union) in Graham Le Lay and represented arts and crafts in Pat Robson. I sit on that as C.E.O. (Chief Executive Officer).

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Sorry, you did mention earlier, when you came on board, when J.P.P.L. was set up, you have outlined what to the lay person would seem a rather convoluted organisation where Genuine Jersey is bifurcated and you have ended up with 2 organisations. Can you more precisely tell us why there was this need?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

I was not around when the need was identified. As I look back, I suppose this is my opinion a little bit, there probably were not ... what the partnership agreement did in a way is put a lot more controls in place to make sure the government money was being spent correctly. I now report back to Genuine Jersey Management Committee quarterly, to the J.P.P.L. Board quarterly and to Dan Housego in Planning and Environment quarterly in order to ensure that that next grant payment comes. So there is a lot more reporting taking place than I believe took place previously. I am now required to produce audited accounts which go back to the ...

The Deputy of Grouville :

When you say "I", Genuine Jersey or J.P.P.L.?

J.P.P.L. is the company, if you like, that receives and audit. I do all the accounts. We are currently being audited and I present those audited accounts to Dan at my meeting with him at the end of this month, once I have been through the J.P.P.L. board meeting. There is quite a lot of reporting structure. They check up on me all the time to make sure I am doing ...

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

There seem to be an awful lot of the same people on both the bodies. If you had to say what the distinguishing characteristics of one body versus the other body were what would you say?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Genuine Jersey is focused on local product on Island, J.P.P.L. local product off Island. So through J.P.P.L. we administer a P.R. (public relations) campaign for Jersey Royal in the U.K. (United Kingdom). We get money, additional to grant, from E.D.D. and money from Jersey Royal Company and money from Albert Bartlett. We take that money. We have, through J.P.P.L., recruited a top quality food P.R. company based in London to run a national campaign for the Jersey Royal starting 1st November running through to the end of June. So that is a campaign that is run out of J.P.P.L. not out of Genuine Jersey. Genuine Jersey focuses its activities to promote local product locally.

The Deputy of Grouville :

I still cannot understand why worldwide there is not one body. Why there is not just Genuine Jersey and why you are not employed by Genuine Jersey to do off Island and on Island promotion.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Genuine Jersey has a charter and criteria for membership. Not all product in Jersey complies with that. There are products that are produced in Jersey that are not Genuine Jersey, but can come under the J.P.P.L. banner. It is not difficult to me.

The Deputy of Grouville : Can you give us an example?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Jersey Pottery, Fizbag, Funky Puffin, who produce a surf wax and a similar product as well that is not Genuine Jersey ... is not manufactured here, but there are companies producing product and we support those companies the best we can. Genuine Jersey has a pretty strict criteria for membership, which I could go through as well if you wish. Currently there are 80 members of Genuine Jersey. At the next meeting, which is on the 15th, I think we have another 10 people applying. So we are currently going through ... I suppose we go back to when ... after that first appointment in September 2008 we reviewed the look of the mark and the charter that Genuine Jersey had. The charter changed, the look of the logo changed and everybody had to then reapply for that Genuine Jersey mark on their product. Some people did not get through that reapplication process, because the charter was changed slightly. We are getting on for 18 months into that process of trying to really build the brand, so it has value. We are

seeing that, I think, through the number of applications we are currently getting and the strength of it is growing. But I say also we are swimming with the tide a bit. There is also a consumer demand to be able to easily identify local product because that is what we are constantly being told by outside media.

The Deputy of Grouville :

The brands that operate under J.P.P.L., like Jersey Pottery and Fizbag, are they marked and easily identifiable or are they different?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

There is no ... within J.P.P.L. there is only the Genuine Jersey mark. Jersey Pottery operate outside of Jersey under their own brand. They do not use the mark that I administer. Is that what your question was, sorry?

The Deputy of Grouville :

Yes, something like that, there is ...

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

We had looked originally at developing a Jersey export brand. I think that appears in some of the plans. We have looked at that. It has been quite difficult to identify common markets or routes to market among all the exporters that would have ... that a mark would have supported. Let me just re-explain that. I have had several meetings over, I suppose, 18 months with exporters and we found that there is not a lot of common ground, other than the fact that they are sending product off Island. Some of them are going through the on trade, some through the off trade in alcohol, others into supermarkets, others into retail, others as wholesalers, some are looking for agents, some are looking at distributors. It has been very difficult to identify a single direction that they could all benefit by being part of a close-knit club or association like Genuine Jersey. Genuine Jersey is much easier, the mark goes on the product, promote the mark, people identify the mark on a product and then hopefully they purchase that product.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

In a restricted market of 90,000 people.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Correct. Some of them go to America, Australia - Fizbag particularly. So we have not formed an association of exporters.

[12:15]

What we have done, through Jersey Royal, is probably one example of a successful campaign that we have administered as a P.P.P. (public-private partnership), which I have just explained. I think there are ... I help people understand what funds there are available within government through ... usually through J.E.D.I. (Jersey Export Development Initiative). So I do not hold the funds, but make sure that people who are looking to export are aware that there is this support and then I focus their attention into Jersey Enterprise.

The Deputy of Grouville :

That is the thing I did not understand about, this ...

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey: J.E.D.I. Jersey Export Development Initiative.

The Deputy of Grouville : So where do they ...?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

That is a grant that is administered by Jersey Enterprise. They administer a number of grants. I think they have an initiative grant, enterprise grant, J.E.D.I., within the Royal Department there is the Royal Initiative Scheme. So there is a lot of support out there for business. J.P.P.L. in a way is, as I see it, support for those businesses, not necessarily in terms of funding, but in trying to network them with other people who are likeminded.

The Deputy of Grouville :

A couple of more things. You operate out of offices. Are they tourism offices?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

I operate out of the building down at Liberation Place. Tourism is in the same building, but so is E.D.D. I see it as an E.D.D. building really and as part of my grant I also receive office space.

The Deputy of Grouville :

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

J.P.P.L. receives a grant of £140,000, £70,000 of that flows through to Genuine Jersey.

The Deputy of Grouville :

So you get £140,000 plus office space.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Correct. As well as office space, I get a computer, desk, chair, telephone. So I do not spend my time renting space and all the rest of it. I am concentrated in trying to support business. I think it is a pretty sensible approach. Otherwise my grant ... probably the first £10,000 would be on - or whatever it is - finding space and ... also I work pretty closely with Wayne Gallichan, who is in the same building, Donna Le Marrec, Tourism. Just to meet with Iain regularly I go up to Howard Davis Park. So it is useful for me to network with those people.

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

What I am ... it is a slight twist. As you know, we are obviously here for the Rural Economy Strategy and seeing whether the plan is going to work and so forth, you obviously, I take it, have analysed the plan.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey: Yes.

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

To what extent do you feel the plan, as outlined, goes with the grain of what you are seeking to do?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

I was involved in aspects of its drafting. I was asked for input, which I gave, and that input I think was taken on board. So from that respect I would not be able to point at anything in the current proposal that I would not agree with. I think also, if I may just go back to a point that was raised earlier about whether any consultation has taken place between myself and the members. The answer to that is: "No there has not." I ensured that the members had received ... I asked what the circulation was and made sure that everyone who was a member of Genuine Jersey was on the list and they were given the opportunity to feedback direct, I guess through yourselves. But I did not seek to gain an insight from the members because I do not really feel that Genuine Jersey is set up in such a way to lobby government as such. It is a marketing organisation to promote local product. I did not ... I think that was a question you asked earlier, was it not?

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

In terms of the objectives that I laid out, in terms of the kind of entrepreneurialism that wishes to develop in agriculture, in terms of the ways it wishes to revive or to create new sectors of agriculture, have you got any comments on all those broad ...?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

I think policy objectives ... as I go through the whole thing, I could go through them one at a time if we wanted to, I think a lot of them are interconnected. The particular one that comes to mind for me is the work we have done over the year at the abattoir. I think J.P.P.L. was partly instrumental in trying to resolve the issues we had there by pulling together ... from my understanding who it was that was involved, the 3 States departments. Getting the feedback from private enterprise as to what the issues were. I found it easy once we had identified what the issues were and got everyone on board and sitting around the same table, realising what needed to be done and it has been done. The outcome of that is that we have a user group, everything is not ... not everything is perfect straight away, but a lot ... there has been a massive step forward in the way the abattoir is being run and the costs involved. I guess its success partly is down to my role at Genuine Jersey, but the members feeding into me. But clearly there are a lot of people who were sitting around a table who have made it work. That is in the report as something that is going to carry forward and I wholeheartedly support that.

The Deputy of Grouville :

Does Genuine Jersey promote the products?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Genuine Jersey promotes a mark that appears on a product.

The Deputy of Grouville : Promotes a mark, right.

As you go through our business plan there, we have our marketing budget and that in the main is used to target different groups. We segment the market, so we target locals and tourists, catering establishments and retailers. So those are the channels. We use different ways to communicate with the people in those channels. So whether it will be What's On(?) for gift or Discovery magazine or Eat Jersey magazine, so we have ... advertising goes out to promote the mark. On the back of that advertising we try to generate editorial coverage. That editorial coverage tends to be focused on members, who in turn then help to build the brand. Part of the budget is also used on training, so we put training together in sales and marketing and media training for members so that they can help to develop the brand. There is support in place for the mark to be put on to product, clearly, otherwise the advertising would not be as effective if the members were not using the mark and so we have stickers that we give out; we help them develop the packaging. So, more and more we are going to see the product carrying that mark and the advertising message is look for the mark before you buy.

The Deputy of Grouville :

Do you go out and proactively seek out new members; ones you think that just have not thought about it?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

I have not needed to a great deal, because I get quite a few people coming to see me. I go to most of the markets. My wife is a member. Also, I tend to go to the markets. It helps me to meet lots of members at the same time and people will approach me at

those markets and say they are thinking of joining and I go through what the criteria is and then I set up separate meetings. So, everyone who applies; I go and spend about an hour and a half trying to understand what their objectives are and make sure they understand what the objectives are of the association; that there is a match before taking their money. I suppose another important thing to point out is that prior to my arrival I think the grant was £70,000 or £80,000 - I am not sure - and it increased a great deal.

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

That was not for your salary, I take it? [Laughter]

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Although it does not quite add up but I am not sure whether There are audits and there are accounting fees associated payable; that sort of thing. There has been a period over 3 years of the membership fees going up by double as well and so we are currently when I joined the membership fee was £50 for sole trader and next year it would be £104. For larger members it was going up from £500 to £1,000 and something or other. So, members' fees doubling over 3 years and that is what I suppose you were looking to see is it working. I get a few members saying to me: "I note that the fees are going up" and I say: "Well, the fees will go up in line with the benefit" and if they do not then we would expect memberships to drop and if I do my job correctly and the benefits outweigh the cost, then the membership will continue to rise.

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

You have outlined a very clear view of what you do but quite clearly the foundation is the development of local industries and you outlined the abattoir. Clearly there has been a lot of discussion in the farming community about to what extent a locally- based meat industry is viable. There has been the other discussion, for example, about the role of farm shops; whether, indeed, they are carrying a suitable proportion of local material. Will you seek to influence policy at that level as well, which, of course, does flow through this plan?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

What I try to drive is a demand from the consumer. I come from a retail background. Retailers only put on the shelves what the consumers buy. If I can influence what it is the consumers are looking for, i.e. look for local product, then retailers will respond to that by stocking more local product. So, one way, I suppose, is to beat them with a stick and force them all to put local product on the shelf but if the consumers do not want it then that business is not going to exist. If the consumers seek out local product the retailers will do the same and the loop is completed. So, I would go down the route of trying to influence purchasing habits rather than telling people what they have got to arrange.

The Deputy of Grouville :

If the consumer wants local meat and it is not available, do you play any part in government it is not properly available; is the abattoir not working as it should or do you get involved in that way at all?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Am I involved in trying to encourage farmers to produce more meat? Is that your

The Deputy of Grouville :

And lobbying Government if the abattoir is not working as it should to accommodate the farmers.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

I suppose I did not necessarily see it as lobbying but I was involved in speaking with John Rogers with Andrew Sugden and Dan Housego. We had a situation in the abattoir,  I  think,  where  there  were  3  departments,  in  a  way,  all  involved  in  the abattoir. I was involved in pulling them together but also they sent a clear message back saying the industry needs to pull itself together as well and act as one. So, I tried to pull that together and then we got all brought in together; worked out what needed to be done and we are pushing it forward. I am not sure if I see that as lobbying or just as good communication; maybe it is the same thing.

The Deputy of Grouville :

With regard to this options paper, would you say that the needs of Genuine Jersey are met?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

I think Genuine Jersey and J.P.P.L. are both mentioned through the report as being integral parts of the future marketing of local product and produce, and so in that respect I think the answer is yes. I can see that, particularly in here, I think there is an element of the food and farming partnership which is going to be looked at and that is something I look forward to playing an active role in. I think they were starting to build those bridges, I suppose, between retailers and restaurateurs and local produce and I can see a lot more of that; there is potential for that in the future. I have already put my application in for funding for next year. I know that is not particularly covered in here; I do not see that J.P.P.L. needs any more money than it currently receives. It can do an awful lot through just networking and getting people to work together and pull in the same direction, which I think a strategy, once agreed along the lines that we have got here, would be useful.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

Can I ask, from the Government's point of view, Genuine Jersey Products Association, in a few lines, what are the benefits and why does E.D. support J.P.P.L.?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

That would probably be a better question to ask them but I can answer it from how I see it; what do I bring to the party?

The Deputy of St. Mary :

No, why do they want that, because I think it is useful to see

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

I imagine they do it because there is input from both sides; it is a public-private partnership. It is not just me implementing government strategy, it is me listening to what the producers want and spending the money I mean a clearer requirement is to get best value for money.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

What is the interest of government in promoting local sales of local product? Why not just buy in all the stuff from England; it would be cheaper anyway?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Okay. Their strategy, I think, is for a diverse economy; it is not just about finance, I guess. A big part of it is very important; but the environment in which we live is clearly part of that and that is down to the farmers and the growers a great deal.

[12:30]

So, the support for the environment is part of their strategy as I see it. They are looking to encourage people to start small businesses. I think the vast majority of businesses in Jersey employ less than 5 people, if I am right, and so I focus on that producing element. It is a pretty small list of people; I already told you it is only 80. Hopefully we can grow that but I do not suppose it will grow much past maybe 200 tops. It depends whether artists or not come into that group or not but it is a separate debate I guess. So, it is about having focused support for that small sector of the economy.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

You talk about swimming with the tide, and remember we are talking about the rural economy so try and keep that, but what did you mean by that "swimming with the

tide", because that is an interesting phrase and it just came out of your mouth, so I thought, that is interesting.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

I think of swimming with the tide as opposed to swimming against the tide; there is a consumer desire to seek out local product. We see that through research that is carried out; that the mark does influence purchasing pattern.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

Research done under your auspices?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Yes, just before I arrived research was carried out by E.D.D. that led to the formation of J.P.P.L. which fed into the partnership agreement. So, it has got pretty solid foundations. It established that the mark was being used by consumers to identify product. Effectively you have got a courgette on a shelf with a Genuine Jersey logo and a courgette on a shelf without, it gives the grower that point of difference, that unique selling proposition, and that is the whole point; to help producers get their product on to shelf and easily identifiable.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

You say through your business plan, there is a mention here a survey or contact with chefs and restaurants and they are saying to you: "Can we have a bigger range, not just Jersey Royals; we also want a range of vegetables and stuff." Where does that lead you when you get that reaction? What happens next when a customer tells you that or a range of customers, sector ...?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

I have tried to get to know the members and so one of the advantages we have, particularly in fresh produce, is that a number of the Island's fresh produce wholesalers are also growers and so there is an inbuilt desire among those growers to supply their locally grown so, the catering side, if they are looking for local product, then they are already getting it through their wholesalers. I think they are a different group of farmers that tend to supply the retailers and there is reasonably good communication between local retailers and local farmers. So, if people will come to me and say: "I am looking for XYZ" I will know roughly who is doing what and point them in that direction, but it would different if you were a retailer if you were in catering.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

I am slightly puzzled because the chefs and restaurants are saying: "We want a bigger range of local products." When we talked to the farmers - which we did - they say: "Well, it is very, very difficult to do this" to extend the range, because you need different technology for different spuds of different ... I do not know. They seem to think it is difficult and yet here we have evidence that there is a local sector who came out quite small so where does Genuine Jersey fit into that mix of

I suppose this is where I would be saying that I am promoting what we have got, to a certain extent. I think there is room for broadening the range probably in processing, using a certain amount of the excess and that is covered in the report, and I have had a number of discussions already with Iain and his team about how we are going to develop that, in fact, we have got one this afternoon. So, processing, I think, is an area where existing product or what is existingly produced could be broadened from just eggs to processed eggs to

The Deputy of St. Mary :

In fact, the restaurants are doing that; they are processing eggs into omelettes that are more valuable than the eggs.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Correct. Yes, but it may also be that should there be a pasteurised egg available as well as a non-pasteurised egg?

The Deputy of St. Mary :

Is there not a problem with economies of scale which simply kills all these ideas stone dead; that there are options here that could be viable?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

We are at the early stages of talking about eggs. The thing to do is to try and understand what the market is and what the price is, so volume and price, and see whether or not a local producer could target that sector and without broadening your range past eggs, if you know what I mean. So, you can do a lot with an egg.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

I did have one more. On page 25, where it talks about marketing; the Rural Economy Strategy talks about marketing. The impression I got on those 2 pages, 24 and 25, there are lots of organisations, lots of sources of support - almost bewildering - and, in your view, does it all work? Does it all dovetail together properly for the user of support and the person who wants to export or the person who wants to sell to the local market? Does it make a package that makes sense?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

When I talk to producers about it they understand it. They are not always aware of it before I talk to them but that is the whole point of me being there to make sure they are aware of it. I had someone this morning who has a new business idea; I have got a meeting with her on Tuesday. She is meeting Jersey Enterprise on Tuesday and if people will take her through that process of what support there is available and she will tie into everybody. I communicate with Jersey Enterprise as they do with me to see that we can help those people develop their businesses. So, I think my feeling is that it does work. On the left-hand side of the page here is where it talked about the Jersey Export Development Initiative and the innovation and so on. On the right we have got the P.D.O. (Protected Designation of Origin) which is key for Jersey Royal and, I think, the dairy are also looking at it as we

The Deputy of St. Mary : So, more or less it is okay?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey: Yes, I think so.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

Okay. The marketing representative in the U.K. in support of P.R. reps; how does that work, that are familiar with the tourism setup?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

The marketing representative in the U.K. reports directly into Iain Norris, who is sitting to my right, and so we are better placed to talk about it. A lot of his time is in supporting Jersey Royals. We know his name is Neil McMullan and he is a fantastic support whenever I need anything in London. I organised or was partly involved with the 15 initiative; Jamie Oliver and the apprentices coming over, and using that to, I guess, put local produce on a pedestal.

The Deputy of St. Mary : He was involved in that role?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Yes, he gets involved in that, the Real Food Festival. He is a man on the ground; when we need something he can sort it. When we ran the Jersey Royal P.R. campaign in the U.K. we utilised Neil to deliver Jersey Royals in top condition to ... I think, this year we did 40 food journalists in and around the London area.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

He does that on his bike with a little thing on the front?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

I am not sure how he does it but that picture probably is not quite right in your mind, but he does it efficiently. It takes him 2 days and then we monitor the press coverage that we get from that to try and drive a desire for Jersey Royals, and the response has been pretty good this year. We work really closely. This P.P.P. bit comes back into it; we are really constantly communicating with the P.R. agency, with William Church at Jersey Royal and Tim Ward at Bartletts to deal with any issues that may crop up.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

That answers my next question. Support for public relations representatives; what you mean is the people in the 2 big Jersey Royal organisations and all our other people as well on the ground?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

In support of public relations representative; I host quite often journalists - this is under my J.P.P.L. hat, I suppose -; we have got next week a BBC researcher coming down for a T.V. (television) programme and I will spend 2 days or a day and a half taking them around meeting the producers. We have had recently a delicious in Time Out. The Times have been over, Waitrose Food Illustrated. So a big part of what I am doing is using the Jersey Royal campaign to bring journalists over but when they are here we can talk to them for a couple of hours about Jersey Royals and get them on some coaties(?) and do some digging, do some tasting but then we showcase the restaurants and also introduce them to other producers. That rounds their article; whether it is down at the oyster beds or up at the dairy farm or down at the Viviers(?) on the quayside. So, it is that rounded approach for all Jersey produce.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

Slightly to one side; where is the budget for this marketing rep and the P.R.? It is not yours, so is it E.D.D. generic or how does that work?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

The cost of the marketing representative is not in the Genuine Jersey or J.P.P.L. Sorry, I think we have probably ... Iain, if he is allowed to talk, he would be able to tell you. I do not inquire to be honest with you as to where that The support for public relations; I do quite a lot of that myself. The funding for Phipps P.R., which is our P.R. agency in London, comes from Jersey Royal Company, Albert Bartlett and E.D.D. outside of my grant. So, that is a separate campaign that is run. Effectively, in that particular case, government is a brand owner rather than just an administrator; so, Jersey Royal brand is owned by government and, therefore, as I see it, government has a responsibility not just to sit on that brand and do nothing but to actually actively support that brand, so this is where we get equal funding from the 3 parties to run that campaign.

The Deputy of Grouville :

Do you know how much the grant is from E.D. for the Phipps Agency?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Absolutely I do. It is within £500 of £60,000; I think £60,480 and each party puts in £20,000.

The Deputy of Grouville : I see, okay.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Sorry, if I could just finish on that, if I may? We agreed what the campaign objectives are in advance. Everyone agrees to the funding level, then Phipps will come over and report the output from that campaign and if it is deemed successful I would then negotiate with each to see if they want to continue it or not. Currently, we have got agreement to finish it this year; we have not talked about next year yet, and it will happen in round meetings in September.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

Does that mean that Bartlett is a member of Genuine Jersey?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

It is outside of Genuine Jersey. Bartlett are not a member of Genuine Jersey. Jersey Royal company are, of course

The Deputy of St. Mary : This is with your J.P.P.L.?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Correct. So

The Deputy of St. Mary : We need to get it.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey: Yes. If it was all under Genuine Jersey

The Deputy of St. Mary : You could not do it.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

You could not do it, yes. Bartletts in a way, of course, do not have a product because they are a packer. Well, they are a marketing organisation are they not, Bartletts; a very good marketing organisation. So, that is how J.P.P.L. is used as that P.P.P. to pull that together.

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

A slightly different tack; we were told by the farmers representatives yesterday that while they obviously applaud the motive of selling local produce, they are finding it very hard to break into the distribution chain of a U.K. multiple that operates on the Island. How can that be rectified?

I used to work at Le Riche and I guess you are probably aware of that. I think, again, my route would be to create desire or demand as opposed to you cannot go along and beat someone up and tell them what they are going to range. What we can do is try to encourage people to seek out local product. So, I would want to, through the advertising and marketing of Genuine Jersey, encourage people to look for the mark before you buy and if you do not see the mark, do not buy. That, in turn, will encourage retailers, not just supermarkets but art galleries and whoever to range a product that carries that mark. Our message to the consumer, of course, is that if you want to support the economy, if you want to keep the countryside green, if you want to reduce your food miles and carbon footprint, all those things; if you want to do that then buy local product or by buying local product that is what you do support. In effect, it is the customer that will put the pressure on the retailers to range local product.

[12:45]

The Deputy of Grouville :

I have just got a little question to ask about your membership. If there was an entrepreneur that, say, could not afford your membership fees of Genuine Jersey but they were producing Genuine Jersey goods, would that be a reason that you would not allow them to use the brand or I mean, is there a concession for

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

No, I understand the question and I suppose I could give you a real time example as opposed to a theory in that we had a member last year who I felt was not in a position to be able to afford the fees, even though they are reasonable. I proposed to the management committee that we waive the fee in that instance until that person was in a position to be able to afford them and they agreed. So, as it happens, that person has now left under their own volition and so we currently do not have any members who are not paying a fee.

The Deputy of Grouville :

So, would that not be an idea; to make a turnover point to encourage smaller enterprises?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

The fee is £78 for a year for a sole trader to join. Last year we introduced an insurance scheme as part of membership. It became aware to me that insurance was a barrier to trade, in fact. It was not the fear of Genuine Jersey that would stop you going and developing a product, it was the insurance costs, which in some instances were, for a small food producer, could be between £200 and £300, for non food probably somewhere between £100 and £200. So, we had some meetings with Islands Insurance. They were keen to support the association in some way and we put together a commercial combined insurance policy. The premium for a basic level of insurance product and public liability was £40 and they fund that for every member that joins the scheme. Through that we developed a sponsor mark, so ... I do not know how much detail I have got, but I suppose

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: Just a broad outline.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Generally speaking we have got not just the Genuine Jersey product mark but we now have a sponsor mark and if a company wants to just give us money, then we have put in place something that allows them to do that and we currently have 6 companies that either give us money or service and Islands Insurance is one of those companies. So, they help all the members. We have got 21 members who have joined the insurance scheme this year out of the 80, which is pretty good going. So, suddenly that £78 is not a lot when you think that the insurance can be thrown in. I am constantly going to try, with the association, to build up the benefits of being a member. The key one, of course, comes back to that you put the mark on the product and promote the mark. They are getting this training support and working with retailers to try and open doors. Co-op have been very supportive. We met with Radissons(?) yesterday to try and get them to range more local product.

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Back to the policy; you intimated quite early on that you were generally satisfied but are there any areas of the policy that, in your view, cause you concern?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

It may sound odd but the answer to that is no. I have had various discussions since this came out with Dan Housego about what the food and farming partnership would be and what the shape of it is; some more detail on that, but I am already in discussions and working with him on that front, so I am happy with the way that is progressing. In general terms I feel quite positive about the way forward. I did not listen to the comments you had yesterday from the farmers but we are trying to work with them to get their product to market.

The Deputy of Grouville :

It may be hypothetical but would you describe J.P.P.L. as similar to what Jersey Finance is to the finance industry?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Yes, there is a conference bureau, there is a P.P.P. for the conference market. Jersey Finance, I think, is a P.P.P. for the finance industry and J.P.P.L. is a P.P.P. for local producers. I think my structure came out of Jersey Conference Bureau. I have shared my structure with others if there are going to be more P.P.P.s in the future. I do not have the structure of Jersey Finance but I understand it is a similar structure.

The Deputy of Grouville :

It is to promote the finance industry, in which case there is this organisation in place, so I would ask why could the producers of local product for export not market their own goods?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey: They already do.

The Deputy of Grouville :

So why do we need the additional J.P.P.L.?

There are a number of areas, I suppose. The main thing for J.P.P.L. that has come out of it, since I have started, really is Genuine Jersey and the Jersey Royal campaign and I suppose some of these other things. So, there is not a great deal of focus on product for export, other than the Royals. So I am not spending a lot of my time doing it. More of my time is spent on the Genuine Jersey but interestingly enough what is starting to happen is that Genuine Jersey branded product is becoming more attractive to people off-Island because of its success on-Island and so, in itself, it is starting to help people. We supported some makers - I know this is mainly about rural economy - also a part of Genuine Jersey to go to the British Craft Trade Fair. They have come back with some really positive response, some good orders, and some of them are going out with a Genuine Jersey mark on, which the buyers in the U.K. are seeing as having value and a good provenance.

The Deputy of Grouville :

I am just being devil's advocate here; why should the taxpayer pay for the promotion of something like Fizbag or Jersey Pottery?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

No money goes from J.P.P.L. to Fizbag or from Jersey Pottery

The Deputy of Grouville : But you promote.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

No. No, I am trying to help network. No advertising takes place or promotion takes place off-Island. All the marketing money goes into Genuine Jersey brand and we have built the brand. Part of J.P.P.L. is a networking organisation to try and pool some of those exporters together so they can work together; whether it is to go to trade shows. We have also used Amanda Overland at Fizbag to support other people who are looking to export into that market so they are, sort of, export champions, if you like, and we have put people in touch with them and they support; so it is more of a network than a it certainly is not a funding body or they do not give grants or

The Deputy of St. Mary :

You said something interesting; Jersey good provenance, that actually the name "Jersey" tends to be a positive. Does that make you think that there are implications there for other areas around policy that if the name "Jersey" is a selling point in its own right, we have to be very careful with it. I just put that to you as a, kind of I would not want to sully that name "Jersey".

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Absolutely. No, I suppose if the brand I use, though, is Genuine Jersey and we try to differentiate between the 2 but we try and make sure that the right products carry that mark and there is quite a strict criteria that is not everybody who applies is approved.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

Is there any way of knowing roughly what value that reputation has? The big corporations work on what their reputation is worth.

The Deputy of Grouville : Intellectual property.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

No, their reputation. The value of the brand itself.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

My plan would be - and it has not been approved yet by management committee - to redo the brand survey but it is currently not my intention to try and put a value on that brand. It would probably cost quite a lot of money to do and I am not sure what the benefit would be of knowing. I suppose what we are trying to do and I think part of it is to measure the return from the rural economy, I suppose J.P.P.L./Genuine Jersey plays a small part in achieving that.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

I suppose my concern is that it is nowhere in here, but it is in what you have just said, that Jersey has a value in itself, the name, and Genuine Jersey more so, and so that has implications for policy way outside the rural economy that I can think of straight away, what we decided up there, and then there is a reputational risk and then that could affect all the sales, all your partners, possibly even as far as the Jersey Royal, if there was a major thing: "Oops, that has gone wrong." I have got something in particular in mind but I am not saying. There is a risk there and therefore we need to be aware of that when we talk about marketing within the rural economy and promoting Jersey and making sure our stuff will sell.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

I suppose an example would be if there is one member of Genuine Jersey that dragged down the rest of the association but I think as a communication organisation, my background is not in making product, it is in marketing. We have a pretty good relationship with local media which we are working on all the time and we would try to control or do damage limitation on any sort of private venture.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

Within your membership? I was thinking of the wider issues, even outside the rural economy strategy, but that does impact on the strategy itself.

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Just one final question; you have given a very clear exposition. Yesterday the farmers asserted that the tomato industry had essentially collapsed because of the almost cold turkey withdrawal of government support. We know that is all open to debate as to why it did or did not collapse the export market. Would you as a body have intervened if you saw that that industry was in trouble and you knew it had a good provenance, as our colleague says, and we were going to lose it, because we essentially have lost it overseas, would you intervene and say: "Look, you have got this wrong, you really ought to pull back and try and change the situation"?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

I would like to think the answer has got to be yes. We saw there was a problem in the abattoir; we did something about it. The association existed when the tomato issues were out there. I have not looked back at the minutes to see if they tried to do anything, I am afraid. Sorry, I have not gone back. I would like to think that we would try and do something about it, but I do not see it as being lobbying. I have worked alongside these guys everyday and one would hope that a lot of these things could be resolved by sitting around the table and understanding, like, both parties' views on it as to how to resolve it.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

Also I suppose you would bring the marketing view that if you lose one big product with a Jersey name on it then you have actually lost a bit of market and therefore that affects the other things we are trying to sell.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

I think, looking back on it, I suppose if it was not a viable business and it is just being supported, then what has come out of that, of course, is that those glasshouses are now being used for other crops; a lot of those crops are being used to supply a local market. We have got phenomenally good there are a few of them are not, but there is La Chasse and Three Oaks Vineries that are both now focused inwardly in the local market and supplying local supermarkets. But those are only 2 growers; there are a few others, I suppose, with empty glasshouses on them.

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

The property development potential.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

Do you know off the top of the head what they are growing?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

Three Oaks Vineries, a load of tomatoes; you have got the vine, you have got the cherry, you have got the beef, you have got the plum, and so a lot of tomatoes. I think he is also growing courgettes - and  I will go to my crib sheet - Three Oaks is tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers, potatoes, courgettes and aubergine.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

I was just interested to get a feel of what you can use the glasshouses for. In fact you can convert and start supplying the local market.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

I think La Chasse has a very similar list, although they do grow strawberries. One of those groups supplies in the main one of the supermarket groups and the other one supplies the other one.

The Deputy of Grouville :

Finally, because we have run out of time, are you concerned about the future of the rural economy in Jersey? Do you have any concerns?

[13:00]

I think we know it is going to change. There is a global change going on. I think timely concerns. I think that rather than just making an on-the-spot comment, I think my answer would be no. We know that things will change and we need a framework in place to deal with those changes as they come along. I think there is a wider issue when we talk about the amount of land that is used for Jersey Royals currently that possibly stops other crops from being grown, but currently that is the most profitable. It does not necessarily lead to a massive diverse range of product but it is an incredibly important crop, and I do not see that that is a problem particularly. If it changes then we will be able to use the land for other things. So, I do not see that Genuine Jersey particularly is trying to influence what crops are grown on which field; it is about marketing the crops we have got and identifying opportunities as they arise.

The Deputy of St. Mary :

What is interesting is that Genuine Jersey allows one to contemplate a future with fewer Jersey Royals, for example, and think: "Oh, we can handle that" because we could use the what you have just said.

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey:

I think the food and farming partnership comes into this, where you start to see what demand is and if we can clearly identify what the demand is and pass that information on to the producer, then we know that there is a ready market for that product once it hits the marketplace. So, that is where I see the food and farming partnership as becoming more active; not just in fresh but also in processed product.

Okay. Thank you very much. Is there anything you would like to add for the tape or any points you would like to get across?

Chief Executive Officer, Genuine Jersey: No. Thank you very much for inviting us.

The Deputy of Grouville :

Thank you very much for coming.

[13:02]