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STATES OF JERSEY
Health, Social Security and Housing Scrutiny Panel
Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services
MONDAY, 10th MARCH 2014
Panel:
Deputy J.H. Hilton of St. Helier (Acting Chairman) Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen
Witnesses:
Principal Youth Officer
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service Assistant Minister for Education, Sport and Culture Assistant Director, Sport and Leisure
[10:30]
Deputy J.H. Hilton of St. Helier (Acting Chairman):
Welcome to the Health, Social Security and Housing Scrutiny Panel for this public hearing about the YES project, which is run by the Youth Service. We will start by introducing ourselves and if you could do that please. I am Deputy Jackie Hilton, Acting Chair of this panel.
Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen : Deputy James Reed, panel member.
Scrutiny Officer:
Janice Hales , Scrutiny Officer.
Assistant Minister for Education, Sport and Culture: Deputy Rod Bryans, Assistant Minister for Education.
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
Vicki Twohig, Senior Youth Worker for the Youth Enquiry Service.
Principal Youth Officer:
Mark Capern, Head of Youth Service.
Assistant Director Sport and Leisure: Derek De La Haye, Sport and Youth.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
Thank you very much indeed. I would like to start by drawing the public's attention to the notice on the chairs, if you would be so kind as to read that for me, and also to offer the apologies of the Deputy of St. Peter who is unwell at the present time. Thank you. I would like to start by asking what help the Youth Service offers young people with behavioural or mental health issues?
Principal Youth Officer:
The Youth Service obviously is a generic service open for all young people through the ages of 9 through to 25, core business being 12 to 18. Obviously it has a range of targeted youth work interventions, which one of them is the Youth Enquiry Service, but other pieces of work would be the delivery of all Princes Trust programmes, Duke of Edinburgh award, young mum's group, the Inclusion Project, the young people with special needs, and, like I say, then there is the generic side of the work which is open to all young people to be able to access. One of the projects is the Youth Enquiry Service, which does target young people, 14 to 25. That is a partnership that we have between the Jersey Youth Service or the States of Jersey and the Jersey Youth Trust who are the people who work in partnership with to deliver the Information, Advice and Counselling project.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
Can you tell us when the Youth Enquiry Service was set up?
Principal Youth Officer:
The history of the Youth Enquiry Service goes right back to those that have been around a bit longer called the Minden Base, where that was set up back in 2000. It was Minden Base that provided that Information, Advice and Counselling project, but then kind of lost its way a bit so the previous youth officer, Shirley Costigan, then redesigned it and we looked at a whole different model of the way it was going to be delivered and now we have got the Youth Enquiry Service, so we rechanged it, rebranded it, renamed it, which is working well.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
Could you tell us about the YES project?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
YES is for any young person aged 14 to 25. The aims of YES is to provide information, advice, counselling support to those young people. Although it has got "advice" I always make it really clear that we are not there to tell young people what to do. It is about giving them information and providing support so that they are able to make choices or decisions for themselves. It is not us kind of saying we have got the right answer to everything. We work with a lot of different agencies because what we wanted YES to be was a place that young people could come to if they needed help with some things. What we are not saying at YES is that we can answer everything or help them with every single thing they come and ask us about. It is about signposting, referring on to other agencies so that they get the best support that is appropriate for their needs. The information advice side of things, we get questions that range from things that might seem really sort of trivial to slightly more important things, I guess. So some young people are coming because they have not got a computer at home to update their C.V. (curriculum vitae) or to use the internet. Other young people will come in for the counselling service or if they are struggling to find somewhere to live or access some of the other agencies then we can support them with that. The counselling service although comes under YES, I guess, is kind of a separate thing but again it is for anyone who is 14 to 25. We have got 6 counsellors who work for us. They do not work for us full-time. They all come in as and when we need them for appointments so there is a kind of process that young people have to go through. They cannot drop in like they can do for the information and advice, they have to pre-book those appointments. But our 6 counsellors are amazing and work pretty well to kind of make sure that we can fit young people in as often as possible.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
Can you give us some indication of how many young people you might see in an average year and whether you have seen any increase, in particular over the last 12 months?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
Yes, I have done our stats for the last 5 years. So last year in terms of new clients we had 156. Obviously this year we have only done January and February, but we have had 44 new ones so far. I can give you these though. The numbers have gone up every year between 2011 and 2012, not by many but last year I think we increased another sort of 20. In total, since we started in 2008, we have had 712 young people come through the service and 6,477 visits. Obviously those are repeat visiting but that is the number of ...
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
That is since you stated the YES project?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service: That is since we started, yes.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Out of the 156 how many of those would have attended for counselling?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service: 125.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
The young people who attended for counselling, how did they find themselves? Did you ask the question how they found themselves at the YES project?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service: Yes.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
Were they sent by the school?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
We always ask young people how they heard about us. Mostly for us it is quite interesting to know how they get that information but a lot of them are self-referrals so they have picked up a leaflet or seen a poster or I have been into school and done a presentation. But there are times when they will be referred by their parents or by someone from school or someone from another agency, G.P.s (general practitioners) as well. We get referrals from G.P.s quite often, so a real mixture.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
You talk about referrals and you just mentioned G.P.s. If you were to categorise the different individuals that are referred to the YES project would G.P.s be top of the list?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service: Self-referral is the top of the list.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
Does that mainly come through schools then; the youngsters in schools, do you think?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
No, not really. The main ages that we seem to see are between 17 to 22, so it is that older age range. We do obviously see the 14 to 16s and the 22-pluses as well but the bulk of young people that come and see us are about 17 to 22. A lot of the time it is because their friends have been down and they have told them that they have got help with whatever it is and they recommend it as well, so that is another way that they tend to find out.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
When somebody self refers themselves to you, how long generally speaking does it take for them to access a counsellor?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
At the moment, because we are so busy, it is about 10 days to 2 weeks, which for us we have been quite good over the last few years, we have been able to get them in pretty quickly. But because we have seen an increase in numbers ...
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
And that is simply because of the increase in numbers?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
Yes. It is just hard trying to fit them in with the counsellors.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
Last year, for instance, would it have been less than 10 to 14 days?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
I would say within the week we can normally get them in. For me I think once a young person has made the decision to access us for that kind of support it is good to get them in as quickly as possible.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
So generally speaking, when a young person comes to see you and they see a counsellor, is the continuing service made readily available to them?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
Yes. Obviously it is up to the young person how often they want to access us. If they want weekly appointments they can have that. If they want it once a month they can do it that way. Some of them will just call us as and when they feel that they need it, so it is pretty flexible in terms of that.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
So currently, where you have young people in the system already, those who wish to access help once a week, do you feel that you are able to provide that service with your current resources?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
At the moment it can be every couple of weeks. What is happening is with the new young people, so we are trying to fit them in, but it then means that the people that were in the week before need to be bumped over to the week after.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
Because I think you mentioned that so far this year you have already seen 44 young people and we are only at the beginning of March, so that seems to be quite a big increase, does it not?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service: Yes.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
Are there any plans to increase the number of counsellors available to ... how are you going to address that issue if it continues to increase at the same level? How are you going to manage that?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
At the moment we have got 6 counsellors that work for us and although we could technically, I guess, employ other people, it is about being able to fit in space-wise and time-wise and money- wise all those appointments.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Are the counsellors all employed?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
Yes, they are all self-employed and they are paid by the Jersey Youth Trust.
The Deputy of St. Ouen : What skills does it have?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
They are all counselling qualified up to diploma or degree level. Some of them are working towards their counselling accreditation as well. They are all supervised by somebody from the Adult Psychology Department as well, so we work pretty closely with them.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Picking up on the Adult Psychology Department, what direct involvement, if any, do you have with C.A.M.H.S. (Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services)?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
We will sometimes refer ... I mean I have printed off the number of referrals we have made to C.A.M.H.S. in the last 5 and a half years, we have only made 7 referrals and we have had 10 back from C.A.M.H.S. Sometimes that will be because they have reached 18 and C.A.M.H.S. is no longer available to them, so they offer ongoing support through YES. Sometimes it is because they maybe have not reached their threshold in assessment and they think it is more appropriate for them to have counselling through us.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
What are the specific challenges that you face when providing for young people with mental health issues?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
I guess for our counsellors they have all been working in their fields for a really long time, they have all been working with young people for a long time. What they were really clear is if it is something that they cannot deal with and it needs to be referred on to another agency, so C.A.M.H.S. or Adult Psychology, then they will do that. What they will do is support young people until they are able to access another agency as well. So it is not just saying: "We cannot help you and off you go and wait and see what happens." It is about providing that ongoing support.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Is there any particular reason why, first of all, you selected the 14 to 25 age group?
Principal Youth Officer:
I think when the project was set up Shirley was very aware that there was a big void in services from 16 through to 22, 23 year-olds within the Island. A big void in services. People get to 18 and finish with C.A.M.H.S., Social Services, and it is kind of then where do they go? Who picks them up? I think that, as we have seen, is where YES comes in quite well because the majority of its numbers are the 17 through to 22, 23, 24. But we will see people up to 25. There was a void in services and something Shirley picked up.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
I am interested, you say the majority of your clients are 17 to 22. Do you think there is anything that you are able to do to encourage the younger individuals to come and either seek advice or counselling?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
We will go into schools and do presentations and attend events where there are large groups of young people. I think people always ask us why we think the younger ones are not. I guess in schools they have still got access to school counsellors and support from teachers, some will still talk to their parents and things like that. So I think a lot of young people will be accessing Youth Club as well so will have youth workers on hand who can provide a similar sort of low level support, I guess, that some of the stuff that we do in the advice and information side of things.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
So you do not believe that there is a gap that needs to be filled?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
That is the only reason I can think of as to why young people will not come to YES, is either they have already got support elsewhere or they are kind of accessing other services.
Assistant Minister for Education, Sport and Culture:
That is why the service itself is so comprehensive in terms of what they do across the youth project. They have 23 youth projects and then you have got, as Mark already described, all the things to do with Duke of Edinburgh and the Princes Trust, and all that sort of thing. So people see that. It sounds to me like you feel there is a need for that but it does not appear to be. Certainly if you have been in the youth projects, they are a sanctuary, they are those places where - I said it on Saturday night - that kids kind of for most of their lives seem invisible but yet hugely welcomed at these places. So the problems do not really bubble up until you hit that point when they leave school.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Why I raise the question is I am concerned about the number of 15, 16 year-olds that we seem to have heard about in recent times that have found themselves in a very lonely and isolated place, and also there is the issue of drugs and alcohol related problems.
[10:45]
I just want to try and get a handle from yourselves about what can be done by the Youth Service to perhaps reach some of these youngsters that could need a friendly face.
Assistant Minister for Education, Sport and Culture:
I am sure Mark has a view on this, but I think, particularly from an education perspective, you see that transient point because that is when kids suddenly have to grow up. Certainly the youth projects tend to be of the younger kids because that is something extra they can do, and the older kids as they start to get to that transient point see that as something they are leaving behind. That is why they view themselves as a little bit isolated. That is why they do transfer into the YES project. So it is a growing up point and it is a complete hinge point in their lives. Sorry, Mark, you were going to say something.
Principal Youth Officer:
I think the issues around drugs and alcohol, there are a number of things that our outreach team, every Friday, Saturday nights, weekends, will be out there engaging with young people to talk around drugs and alcohol. It is part of their youth work curriculum. All the youth clubs out there will have literature in them around all the issues that are relevant to young people: smoke, drugs, alcohol, relationships, sexual health. They will be doing that work day in day out as part of their ... that is what they do. A lot of 15, 16 year-olds do not see they have a drink or drug or alcohol problem. They go out, socialise, as does the adult community, and drink and maybe use substances but young people do not see they have got those problems. I think the problems, certain individuals end up with problems and you can pick them up and do some early intervention stuff with him, try and refer them on but unfortunately if they are not going to engage in you have that kind of dilemma at times. So I think the youth work curriculum does go out there and address stuff around drugs, alcohol, legal highs and some of that. There is work being done with that out there. I am not saying we do not do it. There is stuff happening.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
You mentioned earlier about the engaging with schools. How closely do you work with schools? Does it extend to the school counsellor or teacher identifying a particular young adult or young person that may need some additional support?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
Yes, sometimes. I mean I will go in and do presentations either to big assemblies or to smaller class groups, which I guess is useful even if only one or 2 of them are listening to what you are saying. But, yes, we get referrals. I cannot tell you off the top of my head if we have had any from school counsellors but definitely from teachers. Sometimes it is that young people, and it is not anything to do with school counsellor, it is just the fact that they do not want to be seen going into the counselling room at school and that kind of thing. I guess what we are trying to do at YES as well is take a little bit of that stigma away from counselling and young people thinking that there is something wrong with you if you are going to talk to someone. So for me to get young people in talking about things that at the time might seem trivial but could potentially escalate into something bigger is really important because it is kind of nipping it in the bud earlier rather than ...
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
What about some of our most vulnerable young people that may be in care. Do you offer them or do you target that group in particular?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
Yes, we have links in with the leading care team in Social Services. They all know about the service that we offer so we will refer young people in. Again, whether that is for the information and advice side of things or just so that they know we are there at some point, if they need us. But, yes, we do get referrals, and likewise refer back to them.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
I just wanted to ask you a question about your ... you said 17 to 22 year-olds. Generally speaking those young people who come in, the under-18s, I am just interested to know how many of that group have other issues besides wanting to sit and talk to somebody about their problems around housing issues. Whether that is a problem in your opinion? Whether it is something that you have noticed in recent times?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
I guess not so much recently. We did have a kind of spate, maybe a year or 2 ago, where there were a lot of young people coming in to talk to us about not being able to live at home or choosing to not live at home. For us, part of our job, I guess, is to kind of work with them, to figure out whether that is something that is resolvable or whether it requires a referral to another agency. We have made referrals to the likes of the Shelter Trust and Social Services and things like that if that is something that needs addressing.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
How do you deal with the matters that may be considered to be confidential: "I cannot live at home anymore"?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
In terms of confidentiality when every young person comes into YES you go through a registration form and we have also taken their phone number and basic contact details, the name of their G.P. and then before we kind of get to a point of going through what it is that they want to talk about, we go through our confidentiality policy, which it is made really clear that if they are telling us something that is putting them at serious risk or somebody else then that information would have to be passed on. We make sure they know that and they sign that, so that if then something happens we can confidently say that they were aware that was our procedure.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
And that is for all young people up to 25? It is not just the under 18s?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
No. I mean obviously once they hit 18 it is a slightly different situation depending on what it is that they are talking about but we make sure everybody knows because it is just easier that way if we all go through the same ...
Principal Youth Officer:
And it is to be fair to young people, it is being upfront and honest with them, saying: "If you are going to tell us stuff around this we are going to have to pass this information on."
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
How important is it to your clients, or even to you, the issue of confidentiality?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
I think for us our clients really appreciate the fact that it is a confidential service, obviously within our guidelines, but I think it builds up a good relationship with young people, that they are able to kind of ... if there is something they want to tell you but they cannot quite tell you on that first appointment it is about being able to offer that continued service until they feel at the point where they can do that, and I think they know you will deal with things in an appropriate and fair kind of way.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
When would you involve parents or other individuals?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
Parents, unless young people give us permission to talk to parents we will not pass on any information. There are young people that want their parents involved and might bring them to appointments or bring them in with them to kind of talk to us, and that is fine. We do not have a problem with that. Again, if we do a child protection referral it does always ask whether you have made contact with parents. If it is not a risky situation then we will make contact with parents in that way.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Because you did say, I think, that you limit confidentiality to issues where children or young people are not at risk to either themselves or others. What do you define or how do you define "at risk"?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service: It is kind of a hard question.
Principal Youth Officer:
Yes, it is. I think when you look at something ... again every individual is different. It is about the individual, their age, what they are telling you. So if it is a child protection issue then that is them at risk or if they are telling us they are going to go out with a disagreement and assault someone or something like that, again there is someone else at risk. Every situation is different. That is where youth workers have got to use their professional judgment and make those calls on each individual case. But seeing to our safeguarding is quite clear cut.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
So are the counsellors expected to report to anybody?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
Yes. The counselling, and we always make this really clear to young people, when they go into counselling, what they talk to with their counsellor is confidential between them. They will not come back and tell me unless, again, it is a child protection issue that needs referring. If they think it is something we need to be aware of, whether that is the young person's behaviour and things like that then sometimes they will come back and tell us, and things like that, but in terms of confidentiality, the same applies to those sessions.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
What process or procedures do you have in place to ensure there is consistency of approach across your 6 counsellors?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service: In terms of the confidentiality?
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Confidentiality and making sure that there is an issue that needs to be drawn to your attention that it is.
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
All the counsellors when they go in with first appointments with young people have a contract that they get young people to sign and they double sign it, which goes through all those things like confidentiality and passing on information to other agencies, keeping notes and records on them, that kind of stuff. So they all go through that exact same procedure and then obviously, as their line manager, they will meet with me as well to discuss any issue that we have.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Do you regularly review their notes?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service: No, I do not look at their counselling notes.
The Deputy of St. Ouen : Who does?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
That will be what they take to supervision with their supervisor through Psychology. That is who they will go and talk to them specifically about caseloads.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
So just help us here. The counsellors are responsible ... you are their line manager but they are accountable to ...?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
The Psychology Department offer professional supervision for them for their counselling.
The Deputy of St. Ouen : The Health Department?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service: Yes.
Principal Youth Officer:
So you have a line management, supervision and support and then you have clinical supervision, which is looking at their professional practice and all that. That is why we have to make sure that we are doing it ... it all has to be done properly and professionally.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
It would be useful if you could just provide us with that sort of picture of how everything fits together.
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service: Okay.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
I think you mentioned before that you had only had 7 referrals to the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service in the past 5 and a half years. Were there any recent referrals, say last year, 2012 or 2013?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
I think we did one last year and we have done one this year.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
How did you find the process worked for you with regarding to time?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
The one we have just done we have just had ... I think we wrote the letter probably 2, maybe 3 weeks ago, maximum. I need to give them a call back but we just had a call from them and they just need a bit more information so that they can arrange an appointment for assessment. But I think because we have worked quite closely with them in the past and made good links with people there we have never had an issue making contact.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
So any referrals that you have made in the past, as far as you are concerned, they have been dealt with in a timely fashion and they have not given any cause for concern with regard to delay?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service: No.
Deputy J.A. Hilton: Okay, thank you.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Are you aware of whether the individuals that have been referred to you have been diagnosed with a specific problem or just they are ... it has been suggested that perhaps you are better able to help them than C.A.M.H.S.
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
I think for the majority that have been referred ... I mean it is only 10 that have been referred to us through C.A.M.H.S. but it is just because they have not met their threshold so I mean they will always give us a detailed explanation of why they were referred into C.A.M.H.S. and what happened during the assessment that they have at C.A.M.H.S. and then why they feel it is appropriate that they are referred on to us. Again, if we feel it is worth a conversation with them about it then we can have those with them.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
C.A.M.H.S. has told us that they have at the moment about 600 open cases. They have also told us at one point in time they closed the waiting list, although I believe it is open again. We are trying to get a picture of who actually is in need of help. Specifically I suppose, up to 19, 20 years of age group. What do you think you are able to do at the Youth Service to ensure that any of the youngsters that may be, for whatever situation, to fall through the gap will not get picked up by C.A.M.H.S. are offered some form of additional support?
Principal Youth Officer:
We have delivered some training last year for a lot of staff around ... in the U.K. (United Kingdom) it is a big thing now, first aid mental health. So that staff are sort of doing ... you do your first aid course but also there is now one around mental health. Princes Trust staff have to do it. We brought over a trainer last year and a number of our staff took part in that and something else that we are going to continue to roll out this year, so that right across the network of youth service, all the projects and all that, there will be staff out there with them first aid mental health training. I have not completed it myself but you have done it. So that if there are any young people out there that could be seen as vulnerable or might have emotional health issues then we can try and pick them up a bit earlier and make the right intervention. If someone is ever at crisis point, which you have done before, and a couple of other staff, normally we take people straight to A. and E. (Accident and Emergency) and then they will be assessed in A. and E.
[11:00]
So even last week we had a situation where 2 young people were taken to A. and E. for assessment. So if someone is at crisis then staff can recognise the signs and symptoms and then to A. and E. for assessment. C.A.M.H.S. will then pick them up through A. and E. or, if they are older, Psychology.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
So those 2 young people that you took to A. and E. last week ...
Principal Youth Officer:
We did not take them. The police took them but we were involved in the beforehand stuff.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
Had they come into the Service beforehand?
Principal Youth Officer:
They had not come into the Service. It was a contact, someone raised an issue ... that young woman raised an issue about 2 young men that we picked up last week.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Does the YES project offer any out-of-hours support?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service: Not officially.
Principal Youth Officer: Not officially.
Assistant Minister for Education, Sport and Culture:
They are very responsive. This situation that you know about with the 2 young adults that were in that difficult time last year, the response from Youth Service was fantastic. They were straight out there on the streets along with everybody else, which was above and beyond. They have done a fantastic job in that way but not in terms of the time.
Principal Youth Officer:
We have had people that have made contact and then we have met them on a Saturday kind of specially but then through ... we are not 9.00 to 5.00 anyway. It is evenings, weekend stuff. It is happening all the time.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
So generally you do feel that you are there; there is somebody on the end of the line they can access?
Principal Youth Officer:
Yes. It is also trying to ... some other stuff that we want to look at, is put some resilience training into young people. It is something you have looked at, is it not, with C.A.M.H.S., is that how can we provide some training for young people out there? Because young people are with their peers all the time and if one of their peers is struggling emotionally it is about them recognising signs and symptoms and know where to direct people to if they need support. Now obviously 24 hours a day is A. and E. but then knowing where other support is available. It would be good that we can train up young people so they recognise some of that. Something we have looked at anyway.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
In light of recent experiences, which you just briefly touched on, has the Youth Service or indeed the YES project thought about any additional forms of support that could be appropriate and provided to look into the future?
Principal Youth Officer:
We have not looked at any long-term stuff. Obviously the short-term stuff, as soon as those situations happened just before Christmas their staff were out in the streets within an hour and a half to support other young people that we know would have been vulnerable also going through a grieving process. So we did get staff out there. For a period of time we put additional staff out in the streets working and made sure we targeted some of the hot spots where we knew young people, the vulnerable young people that had been at the skateboard park, Millennium Park, so that we are out there, talk to young people. It is quite surprising, a cup of hot chocolate and a biscuit, and then sitting down on the skateboard ramp and the conversations you can have. Also that whenever there is ... and I have to say the partnership working in December last year through to the New Year with the police, Social Services and all that, was absolutely remarkable, I have to say. From the day of the funeral to extra support that was out there, target these vulnerables, we put a lot of resourcing in. Quite different pieces of work for us but we knew there was going to be some hot spots. We knew there were going to be lots of vulnerable young people so we did put lots of staff out, which we have never done before, which was our first time. Last year, for the 2 deaths that happened, doing some targeted stuff with those vulnerable ones and being out there on the streets with them at the crucial times. We did really well last year, I have to say. It presented some challenges but we did it.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Given you say the preparatory work is remarkable, I am really pleased to hear that, are there any lessons that can be learnt from recent experiences?
Assistant Minister for Education, Sport and Culture:
I will just interject a little bit. We have been learning lessons as we go along. This is a clean illustration because I live so close to the Millennium Park. The way they networked with the Freedom Church is an example. They have the Outreach which goes there every Friday and sits there and they pick up kids for all sorts of reasons, it is just a place for them to go. But equally the Freedom Church has responded really well in that sort of situation. They understand the need to get out there and just talk to kids. That has worked well.
Principal Youth Officer:
Working with the other partners is important. I think we responded well and I think we would do it again if we had to.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
So you do not plan on maintaining any of the initiatives that came through as a result of the tragic event?
Principal Youth Officer:
A lot of them continue because of the day-to-day business. So John and his street team are out there. They are still in contact with those young people out in the streets regularly, youth clubs will be still maintained but around that time we knew there was a bigger intervention that needed to be made and we put more resourcing out. We did good work.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Would this street team obviously refer individuals to the YES project if they felt there was a need?
Principal Youth Officer:
Yes, this street team have got all the literature which they take with them for the YES project and they can then, you know, encourage someone to come in. Vicki still goes out as part of her role with the street team. You were out on Friday, were you not? So still going out there and it is about going out there and being the face because again a lot of these young people when they know the face you build up the relationship, then they will come in. It is not a clinical service, it is about personalities and you can walk downtown with Vicki at lunchtime and I saw: "There is the YES lady." That is really important because it is about that personal touch to the service, so they are not coming to a big door. We see this with Princes Trust. Some of the young people are so frightened that first day when they are coming in, and it is sometimes you have to be out on the pavement to catch them to bring them in because it is that kind of ... and you want to support those young people the best you can and recognising some of the stress they might be under for coming in. So Vicki and the team are out there doing promotional stuff, engaging with the street team, visiting youth clubs, Jersey Live, Gig in the Park, wherever there are events, trying to be there to target individuals.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
One area I just want to explore is - I think you alluded to it earlier - was you talked about the age being 14 to 25, main group 17 to 22, and obviously our main focus is to look at the young people supported by C.A.M.H.S. knowing that when it gets to 18ish then they move on to the Adult Services. What experiences do you have of this what I call the transition period between the Children's Services and Adult Services?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
Last year C.A.M.H.S. initiated a multiagency group that is made up of ... I sit on it, Ted(?) from Princes Trust, we have got people from Jersey Employment Trust, we have now got a school nurse on there, there is supposed to be people from C.A.M.H.S., Workwise, Advance to Work, and the aim of that group, I think what C.A.M.H.S. are trying to do was make sure that that transition period was made as smooth as possible and to make sure that the right support was in place for young people. So what we do is meet monthly now and not just C.A.M.H.S. bringing clients but other people round the table will bring client cases to the table just to make sure that we are offering as much as we can. That seems to be working really well because obviously there is a mixture of people who have got different knowledge about different things that may be if you had been sat in an agency and you had not asked about that you would not know.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
This group that you are talking about, it is M.A.S.H. (Multi-Agency Safeguarding Hub), is it?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
No, this is just a group that C.A.M.H.S. set up last year.
The Deputy of St. Ouen : When did they set that up?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service: I think it was May last year.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
What improvements, if any, have you noticed since that was set up?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
I think for me - I do not think we have seen an increase in numbers or anything at YES - but I think what has been important is just the information sharing that has gone between staff of the agencies and their increased awareness of what other services do and can offer so that they can make sure that young people are getting the support that they need.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Some of the submissions that we have had and comments made by individuals who suffer with a whole range of mental health issues and indeed parents with children, young people who suffer with a range of problems, is this issue of suddenly it is all changed as they move from Children's Services to Adult Services. I just wonder, has any thought been given or is there anything you can do, as a youth service, to provide and help that transition that you are not doing now?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
I guess that would have to be in discussion with the 2 services to see because what you do not want to do is go in and not sort of work in partnership with people to make that ... if they are going from Children's up to Adult Services but I guess ...
Principal Youth Officer:
We might have engagement with those young people that were going through transition but we do not see it because they are not transitioning with us. They stay with us so like young people through Princes Trust programmes or Inclusion or any of them, if they are going through any transition we are probably the ones that bridge that wider gap to maintain some continuity in their lives, probably now I would have thought.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
We have heard that obviously the Samaritans provide some form of help but it just occurs to me that before you get to perhaps that stage where you pick up the phone and call Samaritans, is whether or not there is an opportunity to think about if there is something that works alongside,
and it seems that the Youth Service could be well placed to offer some form of additional assistance or indeed just extend perhaps some of the support that you are providing already. Any thoughts like that ever come to your attention?
Assistant Minister for Education, Sport and Culture:
I think Mark has already identified, certainly, and you have been, I have seen you there, James, I think you have injected(?) to the Princes Trust presentation, those kids are in those transitional spot.
Principal Youth Officer:
Some of them possibly could be. I think probably with the one service that do bridge that wider age range, so I think for us just providing a service that has got some continuity, so if you are getting to 18 it does not matter with us because especially with the targeted stuff because you might still continue. It is no different probably when young people leave school at 16 and have been seeking counselling and then we have had some school counsel before refer them on to YES, because they are moving on. We have still got to get a little bit better at that one as well. I think we are probably there. I think we maintain that continuity.
Assistant Director Sport and Leisure:
I have not said much but I have been involved as heading up the Youth Service or having the senior line of responsibility on the senior management team for the Youth Service over a period of time, and I have seen a huge transformation over that period of the last 6 or 7 years but the work is now much more targeted in those kind of areas, the areas that you are exploring today, just the very fact that YES has been up for 5 and a half years. But I think that the beauty of this service is, it is always looking at how to address the issues and is resolving issues as they are. Some of this, while you have to be able to plan for things, you equally have to be able to react to things. I know there is a fine balance between those 2 things but my observation of the Youth Service is it is reacting in an extremely positive way to a lot of the issues that you are talking about and exploring today. I do not think it is finished yet and it will continue to evolve but certainly there has been a huge transformation over those number of years.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
You did mention about partnership with the Jersey Youth Trust. Can you just talk us through exactly how that works and is that your link to funding?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
Yes, the Jersey Youth Trust are the charity that works in partnership with Jersey Youth Service to fund YES, so they were also the ones that funded Minden Base previous to us being set up. So they will look for funding for the counselling, our assistant youth worker, part of my salary.
Principal Youth Officer:
As with the Youth Service you know we have got a number of partnerships with various committees and Parishes. The Jersey Youth Trust one is that, like for Vicki's salary, the Youth Service fund 50 per cent of the salary and on-costs for Vicki. Jersey Youth Trust then fund the other 50 per cent of Vicki's salary and on-costs but Vicki is an employee of the States of Jersey and we do all Vicki's line management and support. Then we provide the building resources, admin support, some sessional staffing as a service, and then Jersey Youth Trust then, like I say, fund 50 per cent of Vicki's salary, they fund an assistant youth worker and then they fund all the counselling. So all the counselling is done. So the counsellors, they are self-employed, but for the sessions they do they get paid by Jersey Youth Trust. It does not come through the States of Jersey.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
How safe is the funding for the project? I do not know anything about the Jersey Youth Trust so I am just interested in resources and funding.
[11:15]
Principal Youth Officer:
It is quite difficult obviously because they are a committee and they are an independent group but they really work hard at doing fundraising.
Deputy J.A. Hilton: Do they fundraise?
Yes, they have various grants that come in. Some of the grants at the moment could be from Lloyds TSB, They have got others; Building a Safer Society, they give £24,000 towards the counselling for that. We have got then ... I think you had some figures, did you not, for some of last year, which I think was another £25,000 external funding they have managed to secure through various ways. So they have about £80,000 a year to find to support the project. So it is a big challenge for them but they say it is ... and it is good that the project has got some independence as well.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
We speak about resources. How certain - if there is such a word - can you be that resources of what is an essential service continue to be provided?
Assistant Director Sport and Leisure:
The good thing about the funding from the Jersey Youth Trust is that it is not just coming from one source, it is a series of sources. We assume the Building a Safer Society is secure because if it is not clearly there will be another lot of projects that will be insecure as well, so one would imagine that is secure. Lloyds TSB clearly have been a huge supporter in that respect and there are other donations. They are working very hard out there. The numbers work out that the project is costing something like £120,000 a year and that is not including some of the stuff that Mark said. I think the partnership between the States and the Jersey Youth Trust is a good one, it is a positive one, but one cannot give an absolute guarantee, but I think the fact that it is ... there are various agencies that they are going to and they continue to do that. They continue to look at different sources.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
I suppose my question really is to the Assistant Minister. If there was a problem with lack of resources being available would it be the department's intention to ensure that the service is maintained to the same standard that it is now?
Assistant Minister for Education, Sport and Culture:
As the previous Minister, I think you also know the answer to that, of course we would always look to make sure the Service is run. Where we find the funding, as Derek has already described, is from all over the place effectively, and to some extent what Mark was saying about this independence is really crucial to the way we run it. And it oversees, and people understand there needs to be somebody on the outside looking in at all of this and making sure that it worked, but, yes, I mean if needs must, if it came to a situation where we found ourselves under some sort of pressure I am sure between all of us Education would look to keep that funding.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
It certainly seems to be the case that most of the agencies that we have spoken to recognise the contribution that the Youth Service make and have made, in particular, as I say, with regard to the issue surrounding the tragic events of last year. It would be nice to have some assurance that not only the project continues to be successful but the funding or the support is there to ensure that the appropriate resources are provided. I do not want you to compile a wish list but if you were able to expand the services currently provided what would you do extra?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
I think for us the important thing would be to have some full-time counselling available. Because of the way that our counsellors are employed they can only do the hours that fit in between the rest of the work that they do the rest of the week, so I think what that would enable us to do is to run appointments throughout the whole week rather than trying to cram everything into a confined amount of hours. So that for me would probably be the most important thing.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Mark, with regards to the support that goes round the YES project, is there anything in particular that you have identified that should have been dealt with and addressed?
Principal Youth Officer:
I think obviously Vicki and her team do a fantastic job. We provide line managers support and the building and resources, then when we move to St. James there is a YES room, counselling rooms, and all that that has been highlighted. As a States we are making that investment in the YES project by the resources, the building and all that, that has been very key for when we move into St. James. Again, we have to get the careful balance between the information advice work and the counselling aspect because that information advice work is just as important as the counselling because then if people are in crisis they can lead on to counselling, and we see that. We have got young people that come in for counselling but it is information and advice they need not a counselling service, and then vice versa, someone comes in for information and advice and you think: "This person needs some real emotional support." So that is a balance. It is just about having the capacity to go out there and reach out to more young people. That presents some challenges at times but we do have a good network of staff across the Island that are well briefed in YES, they can signpost and refer people on.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Does the YES project have a call line?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
We have got a Freephone number but that is only manned when we are in the office, so it would not be manned over the night time.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
Is the project manned during the day, like office hours, 9.00 to 5.00 or something?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
I am the project manager so when I am in I will answer the phone. But we have specific drop-in times, so we have got Mondays and Fridays 12.00 to 6.00, and Wednesdays 3.00 to 6.00, where there will always be somebody in to answer the phone and to respond to emails that come through the website as well. Outside of that it is when I am in the office. I mean obviously I respond to things if people leave messages and things but ...
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Is any advice given over the phone?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
Yes, and over email as well because sometimes people do not want to identify who they are, which is fine. Sometimes it is parents as well, if they are phoning and want a bit of information about where they can get some support for their young people. So we do do advice.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Bearing that in mind, has any consideration been given to looking at some form of call line or extending the service you provide in that area?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
We have not looked at anything along those lines, no.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
A need has not been identified?
Principal Youth Officer:
The 24-hour stuff we do have is the website. There is information and advice on the website and do you know roughly what your hits were for the site, because we see what has been looked at and ... not by who obviously, and that is the 24/7. There is that information and advice available. The other stuff that Vicki does by Outreach is through the schools, through street work, but also going into the prison, and go on the landings at the prison and engage with young people or young adults there. Again, it is building up that friendly face so that on release or whatever they know where they can seek support should they need it. That works, does it not?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service: Yes.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Does the Youth Service have a call line?
Principal Youth Officer:
No. We do not have any. We have got an out-of-hours person in case of a youth worker who needs to phone in for support but we do not provide any 24-hour helplines or anything like that. If someone we would signpost to Samaritans.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
How do you provide for individuals that hit problems during the weekend, which is probably the time ... or Friday night onwards, the sort of time that they may be faced with more issues than perhaps during the week?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
I guess for us if we are already working with young people what we are doing is getting up to know where they can go at the weekends and who they call, and those kind of things. For new young people I hope there is enough information on our website that they access it that way.
Principal Youth Officer:
And A. and E. would be the 24-hour.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
But in recent times, am I right in saying that you have been providing an out-of-hours type of service?
Assistant Minister for Education, Sport and Culture: You have the service in the park, have you not?
Principal Youth Officer:
Not out of hours. I think what we do is that we have been out there and I suppose it depends what you want to class as out of hours. Not much of our work is delivered between 9.00 and 5.00. A lot of it is all 5.00 onwards and then stuff that ... projects that will be open weekends. The Outreach team will be out there Friday nights, as they do every Friday. Youth clubs will all be open all the evenings a week but, like I said, we do not provide 24-hour service. We do not do that. That is when, like Vicki says, clients you are working with, you arm them up with a skill so that if a crisis happens they know to go to A. and E., and young people do.
Assistant Director Sport and Leisure:
I think that is very important because I think it is very important that the Youth Service, the YES project, is just one of many services that are offered to young people. It is about finding the right place for the Youth Service and making sure that people are posted to the right place, signposted to the right place. So I am not sure that the best thing would be to have a youth worker on call at 3.00 a.m. to answer those calls. If it gets to that point perhaps the right agency is Social Services and the emergency service.
Principal Youth Officer:
But we would take people to A. and E. if they are in need of assistance?
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
I was just thinking, because there is the independence of the Youth Service, it might ... maybe it is your experience that you could be well placed to signpost individuals to other organisations rather than waiting for people to be signposted ...
Principal Youth Officer:
We do that during the week, a normal work week. The detach team will do it. They will know all the services out there and refer people to various agencies and services.
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
I guess with the young people that we are working with, they know when we are open and they know when they can and cannot access our service. I mean I think I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I have had a missed call on my mobile at 3.00 a.m. from a young person but I think they know that there are other places.
Principal Youth Officer:
It did used to open Saturdays but it did not work because no one was accessing the service. The other challenge then you have got is no other services are open as well to go on to support someone.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Do you believe that you have adequate resources, both human and funding, in place to deal with the current situation regarding Jersey's most vulnerable young people?
Principal Youth Officer:
The more resources we have got, the more work we can do. I think that is what it boils down to and we have got to work within a budget that we do. We are very ... I do not want to use "creative" because that really sounds terrible, but we are very efficient and effective in the way we operate. Everything is always ... the face-to-face stuff is always priority to us and that is what we look at. Again, with resources, if there is more resource we can do more work but I think we are providing an okay service.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Were you aware that although we have got, like many local charities supporting different groups of people, that there is currently no local organisation that provides support for youngsters with mental health issues up to the age of 18?
Principal Youth Officer:
It depends, I guess, what you are looking at support. Obviously YES would be picking up young people with emotional ...
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
For instance, we have the local group Mind, a charitable organisation but they target 18 and upwards and when you look around we do not have the U.K. equivalent, Young Minds.
Principal Youth Officer:
I was just going to say Young Minds, because we do use bits of their pieces around bullying and some of that stuff and they are big in the U.K. But there is no Young Minds, I suppose the Jersey equivalent.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
I just wonder whether or not you believe the Island and young people would benefit from having an organisation such as Young Minds present or providing additional support to individuals with mental health issues?
Principal Youth Officer:
I think the individual stuff can be done through YES, through C.A.M.H.S. and like that. I think Young Minds in the U.K., I do not think - and I could be totally wrong on this - they target individuals, they would be looking at wider campaign stuff, would they not, around breaking down the stigma of emotional health issues and bullying and some of that. I think that is an area that does need some work, is around breaking down but then the numbers that we have got coming in ... I think the young people of today are a bit better about that stigma. Maybe it is some of our slightly older generation.
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
Maybe I will just rephrase the question. I am clear about what is being provided to individuals in need. I am thinking more of the parents and siblings of those young people that do stuff with mental health issues and what support they can access.
Principal Youth Officer:
N.S.P.C.C. (National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children) have got a new project this year, and I cannot remember the name of it, but we were speaking about it last week, which looks at supporting the young people whose parents might have mental health problems. I know they have been looking at, they were running some training the other week for some staff. It was only last week we were discussing it. I know that they have looked at a different way of working the N.S.P.C.C. here.
Assistant Minister for Education, Sport and Culture: It is because they have got a new project, is it not?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service:
We do get requests from parents and obviously for young people who are under the age of 14 sometimes to provide that support, and we can only do what we can do over the phone with parents. We do signpost a lot of parenting support services through the Bridge if they are looking for ...
The Deputy of St. Ouen :
That would be the natural road if parents are having problems with their child you would point them to the Bridge?
Senior Youth Worker, Youth Enquiry Service: Yes.
The Deputy of St. Ouen : Thank you.
Deputy J.A. Hilton:
Yes, thank you very much indeed for coming along this morning. It has been really helpful and it has been very interesting listening to what you have had to say.
The Deputy of St. Ouen : Keep up the good work.
[11:31]