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Brexit Review Panel
Brexit Readiness
Witness: The Minister for Home Affairs
Tuesday, 5th March 2019
Panel:
Deputy K.F. Morel of St. Lawrence (Chairman) Deputy D. Johnson of St. Mary (Vice-Chairman) Senator K.L. Moore
Connétable M.K. Jackson of St. Brelade
Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier
Witnesses:
Connétable L. Norman of St. Clement , The Minister for Home Affairs Deputy G.C. Guida of St. Lawrence , Assistant Minister for Home Affairs Mr. J. Blazeby, Director General, Justice and Home Affairs
Mr. L. Goddard, Acting Director, Customs and Immigration
[14:29]
Deputy K.F. Morel of St. Lawrence (Chairman):
Thank you very much for coming along for one in our series of Brexit Review Panel public hearings. You will be pleased to know you are not the only department we are speaking to and others have preceded you. Naturally they are exploratory, to try to understand the nature of the changes that are being made in order to deal and cope with Brexit. Before we start, I would just like to say that Deputy Ward has to leave after 15 or 20 minutes. He has got some questions that he was keen to ask, so we are putting them at the beginning to make sure that he can.
Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier : I am double-booked.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Yes, but then he will have to disappear after that, if you do not mind. We remain quorate, you will be pleased to know, and we will carry on from there, going back to question 1 from thereon in. We will just go around the table introducing ourselves for the record.
Senator K.L. Moore :
I am Kristina Moore . I am a member of the panel.
Deputy D. Johnson of St. Mary :
David Johnson , Deputy of St. Mary , Vice-Chairman of the panel.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Deputy Kirsten Morel , Chairman of the panel.
Connétable M.K. Jackson of St. Brelade : Mike Jackson , panel member.
Deputy R.J. Ward :
Deputy Robert Ward , panel member.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
Gregory Guida, Assistant Minister for Home Affairs.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Len Norman, Minister for Home Affairs.
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
Julian Blazeby, Director General, Justice and Home Affairs.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
Luke Goddard. I am Acting Director for Customs and Immigration, all things Brexit.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Yes, we have met a few times over this table. Yes, if we could start with Rob.
Deputy R.J. Ward :
It was just some questions to start with on the settlement scheme which is now in place. It parallels the U.K. (United Kingdom) scheme in terms of its set-up, but the data is held here, so that is the main difference, just to confirm that. I was going to ask what input stakeholders had when this scheme was designed or was it a straight read-across from the U.K.?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
It was done in close liaison and conjunction with the U.K., the Home Office particularly. It follows our alignment with immigration policy in relation to the C.T.A. (Common Travel Agreement), so ensuring that we follow a similar immigration regime and immigration control. Clearly this piece of legislation is very much an enabling piece of legislation and we wanted to provide the same opportunity to E.U. (European Union) nationals here as they have in the U.K., so it was done within close liaison with the U.K. We did speak to some of the local groups as well to ensure that we got a good indication of how people would consider the easiest way to make an application, a test group beforehand and adjusted a number of the processes after that test group before we went live.
Deputy R.J. Ward :
Those who hold the settled status scheme will be able to travel freely in the U.K. without any problems?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration: That is the C.T.A., that is correct.
The Minister for Home Affairs: Through the C.T.A., yes.
Deputy R.J. Ward :
Okay, which would be the U.K., given Brexit happening?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
The U.K., the other Crown dependencies and Ireland.
Deputy R.J. Ward :
Ireland, okay. The outreach programme for the settlement scheme, how is that progressing? I noted that there is a drop-in session on Saturday at Caritas between 10.00 a.m. and 2.00 p.m. Has there been much take-up to events so far to support those who want to apply for the scheme?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
We have had about 1,700 applications so far, so the message is getting across. We have got a close relationship and liaison with the various consuls. All of the information has been translated into ... I am trying to think, how many languages? I think it is quite a few.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
The guidance notes have gone into every European language, all 27 of them, and other information has just gone to the 5 main languages.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
We are using social media a lot to get the message across, so it is happening. Remember, we have got 2 years for this exercise to be completed.
Deputy R.J. Ward :
We are just thinking of those little gaps, people who do not use social media, perhaps - and I do not want to be stereotypical - they are older members of our community who do not, though often they do, who do not have that access. How are you going to ensure that? Will there be a point where you can see that some people just have not applied with 6 months to go and you will go out and actively look for them, so to speak?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Yes, I think that is absolutely right, that we will do. People have to apply for the settled scheme legally by the end of 2020. There can be an extension for exceptional circumstances. If people are just unable to communicate for whatever reason, that will be regarded as a special case and they will be supported as much we can. Officers will go and visit them, if necessary. But, I mean, if you cannot find people, you cannot find people, and if you cannot find people and they never move, never leave home, it is not going to make any difference.
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
If I may, also as we move forward, we will review it regularly in terms of we are just over 5 per cent in terms of what we believe to be the numbers who have applied at the moment, but every 3, 6, 9 months, we will keep a regular review up. If the event, for example, on Saturday is successful or not so successful in terms of numbers, then we will look at alternative ways of engaging. Certainly to date we have been very good and innovative at reaching out, the test group, for example. We will look at different ways of doing it, continue with the traditional methods and then see how we can improve it, depending on the take-up rate.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
I think that we anticipate that we will see a turn-off. It is likely the number of people who are anxious about this, they have applied early and want to get their status sorted out. Over an 18-month period, I can see we will have a downtime and then probably build up towards the last 6 months. A lot is going to depend on the communications that we put out through the comms unit to keep the process going. What we do not want is to have a massive bulge at the end. We will try to keep this momentum going and keep on with our public announcements and events that we can do to keep people aware.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
How can people demonstrate that they have got the settled status?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
At the end of the procedure, they receive a certificate which demonstrates their status. The actual status is held digitally and that is made clear on the notes on the reverse of the certificate.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
So that will be held within your department somehow or other?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration: That is right.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
At what point will that be checked? I am just thinking in terms of cross-referencing. Is it purely in police issues or what would be the reason for it to be checked?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
Someone needs to maintain their status. It can be lost after 5 years of absence, so we obviously will be looking to show that someone had achieved settled status. They could lose their certificate, for instance, so we would want to be satisfied that we could provide a copy if they needed it or just confirm to ourselves that they have an immigration status or in fact that they have lost it if they have been away for a period of time. That would be the reason we would need to go back to it. The other reason is we do need to share this data with the U.K. to allow these people who, in the new regime post-2020, want to come through the controls and the U.K. being able to be aware that they have the appropriate status to come through in the future immigration system.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
So they present that at immigration when they are coming to ...
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
The idea will be that their data will be held electronically. They will not need to carry it with them, so it will be based on the identity document they have got with them.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
So the customs agents that are on the border will be able to access that?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration: Absolutely.
Deputy R.J. Ward :
If you like, sorry, just to confirm, that would sort of pop up when you scan the passport, for example?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration: It is an example of a way to refer to it, yes.
Deputy R.J. Ward :
In the meanwhile, when would be a circumstance when you would have to show that certificate? I suppose there is not one yet.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
Not really at the moment. From now until the end of next year there will be, with the extension of the Immigration Bill, which eventually will come through after Royal Assent. It is still going to be obviously some weeks away, but when that does come through, the extension that comes through to the Island will give provision for those people who are eligible to the scheme to remain here without an immigration permission until the end of next year, because clearly they do not have to apply until the end of next year, so they are, if you like, in the country without a permission.
Deputy R.J. Ward :
It is quite a sensitive scheme for some. I have had some contact with people who, for good reason, are very unhappy. They have been here for 40 years: "Why should I have to do this?" Have you encountered any of those sensitivities and how are you dealing with them, if you have? They are, I would say, soft elements, but they are not soft, and they are very real for people, but you know what I mean in terms of ...
The Minister for Home Affairs:
I do not know about Luke, he can speak for himself, because he is at the sharp end. I mean, I have had one or 2 emails about this, but the important thing to try to get across, it is not for our benefit that we have the settled status scheme or the U.K.'s benefit, it is for the individuals, the E.U. nationals who wish to remain here after the U.K. leaves the E.U. to ensure that they do have formal proper immigration status, so that they can travel freely throughout Europe and come back into the C.T.A. and then move freely around the C.T.A. and they can access all the services that people who are settled in the Island legally are entitled to. It is for the benefit of the individuals, not for anybody else. That is the message we tried to get across.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
I can confirm that we have had a number of emails. The majority are just enquiries on processes. The amount of people that have genuine concerns ... I can understand their concerns, certainly in relation to some of the biometric regulations that have come through. There is a worry that it is a Big Brother issue, we are using this as an opportunity to gather all this data and police all these people that are here. That is quite clearly not the case. However, we do have to satisfy ourselves that people have the appropriate level of lack of criminality in order to benefit as anyone else would that is here. It is very much on that basis. Considering we have had the 1,700 through, we have not had one yet that we are now considering for refusal. There is a long way to go. I do not expect it is going to be a big issue with us, but understandably some people have concerns over that, but it is the normal way in which we would process any immigration permission for those currently non- E.U. nationals who come to visit us now.
Senator K.L. Moore :
Given the statistical information that we have as an Island in relation to citizens, was the 1,700 applications that you have received so far in the quantum that you expected?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
I felt it was rather like landing on the moon. I was not too sure what to expect, but now, seeing it through, I am very comfortable with it. If we were to put the period of 3 weeks across on the percentage, we will achieve the full amount of applicants well within the 2 years, which I would be very pleased about. But as I said, realistically I can see that dropping off after we see those initial group that want to get their status sorted immediately. I would say yes, so it falls within the period of time. We had a bit of a running bet on how many we were going to receive in the first week and we were not too far off.
Senator K.L. Moore :
You feel that the majority of people who fall into this category will have achieved settled status by the given time?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
Yes, I do.
Deputy R.J. Ward :
If Brexit does not happen - and this is a very important question, because there is so much uncertainty - would this settled status scheme lapse? Will it just be dropped? I know this is a hypothetical, but we are not in the Assembly so we can ask some hypotheticals, it is okay.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
If the U.K. decided that they were going to remain the E.U., I think there would be a lot more important things to worry about than the settled status scheme. The settled status scheme would no longer be needed, because everything would remain the same as it is now, but that is not the decision of the British people or the U.K. people, so I do not see that as a likely scenario. There might be a delay, but I do not ...
Deputy R.J. Ward :
I think it is just everything around this scheme needs to be clear for those who are applying.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
For instance, what would happen with their data? People have handed you private data.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
It would be destroyed. It would no longer be needed.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Exactly, and certificated, I would expect, as a result of that.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
If it was extended, then obviously we would extend, and if Brexit was off the table completely and the U.K. do not leave Europe, then as you said, we would scrap the scheme and we would ensure all data was deleted.
Deputy R.J. Ward :
There is some scenarios where free movement would remain in a deal, so we may not need a settled status scheme then either, I suppose.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
As you say, there are a number of different scenarios.
Deputy R.J. Ward :
It is very possible, I think.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
That would be a political decision for the U.K., but I think one of the reasons for leaving the E.U. was to get control of immigration and free movement, but again, that is not a matter for us, it is a matter for the U.K.
Deputy R.J. Ward :
I am just thinking about the scheme itself. I will move on to 10 about biometrics. I know we have had a discussion before, but I think it is very important that we ask it in this arena too, which is ... I am going to speak up a bit, because I know the microphone is going off. Do you expect the range of biometric information required to be collected to be maintained just as a photo? Do you see any scenario whereby you would want more information biometrically? I know you would have to come back to the States for that, because of the way that the law was passed, but can you see any scenario where you might need more biometric information?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
For the purpose of the settled status scheme?
Deputy R.J. Ward : Yes.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
I have got no indication of any reason why we would want any additional information. If we had done, I would have asked for it in the regulations that are coming forward for debate next week.
Deputy R.J. Ward :
I think the reassurance is important, that is the key thing.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Yes, I think it is. It was unfortunate that when these regulations were lodged, at least one of our local media said we were wanting photographs and fingerprints. Luckily I heard that and got to stop it after the first hour, but no, there is no truth in that whatsoever. It is simply the photograph, but I cannot think of a scenario at the present time.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
The scenario would be the U.K. demands it, because is it not the case that, to be honest, it is whatever the U.K. wants as far as the biometric data is concerned, if they want us to do it?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Not at all, not for our settled status scheme. There is enough information. We have enough information ...
Deputy K.F. Morel :
So it is entirely under our control?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
... to ensure that the individual who is making the application is in fact the individual.
[14:45]
We need that evidence. Once we have that, we can do that with the photograph identity cards and references, if necessary.
Deputy R.J. Ward :
Do you think that is easier here just because of the sheer scale of it, it is much smaller scale here in Jersey? Also we have those other requirements of staying here for employment, for housing, for Social Security for quite a few now, if you are coming from outside the Island. Do you think that is part of the issue?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
It may be. Are the U.K. demanding more than that? No.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
I think you are taking it from the wrong side. People travelling have to show proof of identity. That I.D. (identification) card, passport, may require much more biometric information than we would require, but that will be asked for and got by Portugal, by other countries. This identity issue is the document, the I.D. document, rather than an Island requirement.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
But with respect, the problem here is that people that have lived here for 50 years, never been asked for this sort of information, and suddenly the Government asks for this sort of information because of decisions taken elsewhere, not by our Government. It is not just simply a travel I.D. pass, this is ... I mean, I was speaking to one gentleman; his father has been here for 54 years. That is longer than I have been alive, so his father, while not being a British citizen, has been in Jersey longer than I have been in Jersey, yet I am not being asked to provide this information, he is. So you create a division in society that was not there before, so it is slightly more than a simple travel I.D. card.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
If you travel, you will use documents that require much more biometric information ...
Deputy K.F. Morel :
No, that is correct, absolutely.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs: ... than what we require here.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
But we need to keep track on what data the Government keeps on all of us.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
But that is why our needs are not very large.
Deputy R.J. Ward :
But the benefit of having a European passport now is that you can travel throughout Europe still, so it does have that benefit that U.K. citizens have lost. This scheme allows you only to go to the U.K.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs: Not completely lost.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
Can I go back to the Chairman's earlier question, that should the U.K. proper want more information than just a photograph, are you saying we would not need to follow that request?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
There is no indication that the U.K. want additional information.
The Deputy of St. Mary : I accept that.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
All we are interested in is there are E.U. citizens who wish to remain in the C.T.A. and particularly in Jersey and that we are satisfied that they are the people they say they are when they make the application. We are happy we can do that with a photograph, their I.D. card and any police vetting that we might do. There is no reason to go any further.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
Do you envisage circumstances where the U.K. might have more detailed requirements than us? Because that might cause problems.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
The requirements for their settled status scheme are similar, if not identical, to the requirements of ours.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
You assume that will carry on for ever, yes?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
No, the scheme is now operational. I cannot see it changing during its operational.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Just to finish off on that, after Brexit, basically what will people migrating to Jersey be required to do in order to move here, people from the E.U.? Do we have a definitive kind of answer as to how that immigration process is going to take place?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
If there is a deal, the free movement remains until the end of 2020 and negotiations will go on between the U.K. and the E.U. on the future. It is during those negotiations that that sort of situation will be discussed and agreed.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
But in the event of no deal?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
In the event of no deal, so from 30th March, then E.U. citizens will not have an automatic right - but those already here do have - and those coming in from Europe will not have automatic rights. They will need to have a right to remain, an application considered, and what the U.K. have already announced - and Luke will correct me if I am wrong - there will be 2 bases, one for coming into the C.T.A. for 3 months, and another coming in for up to 3 years.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Is this something they have to apply for in advance of moving here or once they have arrived here?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
The further temporary leave to remain, if they wish to stay for longer, will be made after arrival.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Thank you. Any more questions?
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
That is quite important. The first 3 months are completely automatic, so most people will keep travelling and not even notice that there is a difference, just show your passport, get in.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Absolutely. Thank you. Yes, that is an important detail. We are going to take you all the way back to the beginning that you did not know existed in the first place and just go back to the high level kind of area. Minister, can you briefly explain the key preparations that your officers in your department have been making for 29th March? Obviously I take it as read the settled status scheme is one of those preparations.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Yes. I commend Luke Goddard and the team who have been working on this, because I really do not think that any jurisdiction could be better prepared for 29th March than our people are. One of the most important things, I think, is that we have confirmed with the U.K. in particular that the C.T.A. remains in place after Brexit, which is very important for all of us, so we have free movement between the U.K. and Crown dependencies and currently Ireland as well. We have a customs agreement with the U.K. which means that there is free movement of not only people but of goods, tariff-free, between the Island and the U.K., which is extremely important. I think these are the most important things. What will happen is that it will be very much business as usual. There will be tariffs between the E.U. and the Island, so there will be work to do there and the customs officers engaging with the importers who import from Europe, because there will be arrangements that are going to have to be put in place. Luke can tell us a bit more about those, if you wish. The immigration changes that we have spoken about just now will come into place as well for people travelling from Europe, but hopefully, particularly if there is not agreement, it will be business as usual. I think Luke can probably give a bit more detail.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Tariffs maybe as well.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
Tariffs are likely to follow those of the W.T.O. (World Trade Organization), even though that extension is still in the process of being put in place, so there is the ability to get an indication of what tariffs will be. Customs measures are probably equally important, as well as the actual tax, if you like, that may be applied to some items on import. These will require importers to declare earlier than they have been previously in order to have their goods released, certainly those regular importers who have a status with us, allowing their goods to move away from the quay straight away. It is those ones that we have been approaching to try to get them prepared with the new system so that it will not be a shock on day one and ease the flow of those consignments. Those declarations will be watched against the new tariff data to indicate whether they are subject to either licensing or other controls. But again, being the size of the Island, the amount of things that we see, we would envisage this is not going to be a large amount of consignments, but either way, it is the process that is going to cause some initial difficulties to these importers as opposed to the consequence of what might come out the other side.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Have you had any feedback, or do you have any sense of how prepared they are, the importers?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
It is mixed, but generally positive. We have identified there is about 170-odd that we wanted to speak to. Some are very infrequent importers, so this is not going to affect them too much, or they import a specific product. The reduced amount of products they import will ease the system as well. It is those that bring in multiple products that are going to be affected more and it is those that we have targeted first off and explained the system, showed them the new I.T. (information technology) system that we have got available, so they are going to be familiar with that when they start using it. Of those, I am guessing we are probably up to almost halfway through that 170-odd that we are getting to, but again, the others we know that we are going to be able to get to, they are not such heavy importers, if you like. So we certainly targeted the more frequent users coming through and we are getting generally positive indications. A couple are clearly frustrated by the work they have got to do, and I completely understand that. That is hopefully what we are here to do. I also want to point out that this is not something that is a requirement for us. We are doing this because we feel it is the right thing politically obviously to support the Minister and to ensure that we do not end up in a situation where we are just closing our eyes and allowing these people to look after themselves. We want to be able to support the Island as best we can and provide this information where we can.
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
Just to add to that, from a departmental point of view, we set up a One Justice and Home Affairs Brexit Team that Luke is heading up at the moment. We are just about to expand that to be a One Government Brexit Team that I am going to oversee on behalf of the officers of the chief exec, so that will be Luke and others in every other department as we build towards this day one no deal. Over and above that, obviously emergency planning sits within Justice and Home Affairs, so the emergency planning element has been increasing and we have started a series of meetings around co-ordination groups to plan for contingency into the emergency space if that happened. You would expect, as a government, to prepare for the worst-case scenario, but of course as the Minister says, all being well, 29th March will come and go. But there is a lot of activity behind the scenes to make sure the contingency is ready and if we do get into a more difficult space, then as an Island we are prepared.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
We are grateful to have received an emergency planning briefing as well.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
Following on from that, you have answered in part the next question, which is how prepared is the department for a no-deal Brexit on 29th March? Only yesterday, for my sins I get the Law Society Gazette, and the president has issued a statement headed: "No deal would hobble the fight against crime" and it refers there to the U.K.'s present agreements with the 27 other member states, particularly with regard to the European Arrest Warr ant, which is more or less suggesting that if we end up with a no deal, that warrant will cease to exist. Now, has that been looked at? Can you give any confirmation and assurance on that one?
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
Discussions are still ongoing around sharing intelligence, around things like the European Arrest Warr ant. We have got a member of Luke's team who is a member of the States of Jersey Police seconded from the police to the Brexit team. That individual, she has been over to the U.K., she is linked in with the National Police Chiefs' Council and with all the working groups in the U.K. that are set up to deal with things like intelligence and public disorder and a range of different activities. We also have bilaterals with one or 2 - if not more - countries in Europe where we can share information direct, but it could get difficult, because certainly it could slow down the process and make it more challenging if these negotiations that are ongoing with the U.K. and Interpol and Europol do not result in something more positive.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
Looking at the worst-case scenario come 29th March, there is no deal, how confident are you that some procedures similar to that which we have now would continue to operate?
Deputy K.F. Morel : Can you answer that?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
I can. Specifically you are talking about the European Arrest Warr ant?
The Deputy of St. Mary : Yes.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
That does not exist in the Island now because of our relationship with the U.K. and the E.U.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
It came from an English source, so I wondered how we ...
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
It is in place in the U.K. All those that need to be removed to other jurisdictions, whether it is Europe or not, go through extradition anyway, so we already have a failsafe, if you like, in place because that is what we are using now. Also some of the data that we would normally get is not going to change too drastically. The Schengen data, which is shared with the U.K., is not always shared directly through to us, certainly on the Police National Computer it is not. So this kind of information is something we are not going to lose out on because we do not have it at the moment. We function perfectly appropriately at the moment, I think.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
So as an aside, we are better-placed than the U.K., are we, in that sense?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
We might be better prepared, simply because we are dealing with some of this data that we already have now. Having said that, clearly we want to be in as best a position as we can, and we will benefit from the relationships we have got with the U.K. on anything that they benefit from in terms of their future negotiations or relationship they have with Europe.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
From what you say, they might benefit from you as well, if they can get information.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration: Possibly.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
We also have sort of informal operational relationships with France, for example, which is nothing to do with the E.U., it is an inter-agency response to share information and to share intelligence, which I know that Luke's team value. There is no reason to suspect that that would change in some way. It is not a formal situation.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
One would like to think the informal arrangements will continue, yes.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
You mentioned bilateral agreements with some countries.
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
There is good relationships with France, for example, that exist over and above the formal relationships, both with Customs and Immigration and with the police.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
I was just going to ask if we could have a list of those just so we can use them as evidence where we have them.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration: Yes, we can certainly provide that.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Not the list now, later, sorry.
Senator K.L. Moore :
Staying with the no deal potential situation, what public engagement has the department conducted to reassure and educate the population about any eventualities and how they can best deal with the situation, should it arise?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
There has been plenty of media activity, press releases and advice that has been distributed by the Government and indeed by other people involved, retailers, wholesalers and so on.
[15:00]
I think what is expected if there was a no-deal would be a delay in goods arriving into the Island in the short term and advice has been given the Chairman of Commerce and so on to be aware of that and to prepare for a long bank holiday perhaps and stock up on a few things, sanitary things and ...
Deputy K.F. Morel : Foodstuffs.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Foodstuffs, yes. There is not expected to be a shortage, but it might be a lack of choice for a while until the whole situation has sorted itself out. I think that is the sort of advice which has been put out and I think most people understand and are reacting positively to it.
Senator K.L. Moore :
Thank you. If Article 50 is extended, what would be the impact on your area of responsibility?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
We just have to wait and see what happens in another 2 or 3 months rather than what happens on 29th March. Nothing will change, it will just be extended. I think all of us want to know what is going to happen. We all want it to happen either one way or the other, just get it out of the way, but I do not think is there anything ... you know, it will just be extended.
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
We will certainly keep our Brexit team, for example, until we get real clarity, 100 per cent clarity. We would not stand that team down. They have got a huge amount of experience already, so that is good. All our emergency planning and contingency planning would continue. We would probably slow it down, because it is speeding up towards the end of March, as in towards the end of March it becomes daily meetings where we are having some discussions across Government. If there is an extension today, then obviously we can just slow that rhythm down and we can pause, and we can wait. But particularly around the Brexit team, we will keep that going until we get clarity.
Senator K.L. Moore :
Would there be a resource implication in that scenario?
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
We are resourced appropriately at the moment, and in fact we are resourced ... I think all our planning is beyond March for 6 months, because if you look at the U.K. and all the conversations we are having, it is not like the week after the 29th or a month after the 29th, we are planning 3 to 60 months after the 29th to enable us ... to give us that breathing space, so we are confident in terms of resources that we can continue to manage any delay or extension.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
I imagine this has taken place, because presumably you have consultations with customs, police and other relevant bodies to ensure that all necessary arrangements have been considered during these preparations. Now that you are all one, I suppose that is probably easier than it might have been in the past. Is that the case? Have you brought all agencies into the discussion?
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
Yes. For example, the Strategic Co-ordinating Group I chair has got a range of Government departments and also things like utilities, so gas, water, electricity, telecoms, the Honorary Police and the charitable sector, where appropriate. There is one example where we are bringing together a range of stakeholders to make sure we can try to identify the whole challenge across the Island, whatever it is.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
By way of meetings and communication?
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
Yes, I chair that meeting. We have met 3 times already and we are meeting again in a couple of weeks' time and then those meeting frequencies increase if we continue to walk towards a no-deal scenario.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Do you feel those stakeholders have had much input into the ...
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs: Yes, the feedback has been very positive.
The Connétable of St. Brelade : Good.
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
It does prepare everybody. Those meetings would be stood up, regardless of the scenario, so perhaps it could be a flu pandemic, it could be any particular scenario, we would bring lots of people together to manage the Island, so it is a good opportunity to sort of practice and share information.
The Connétable of St. Brelade : Yes, use the resource available.
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs: Indeed.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Can I just ask, kind of adding on to the Constable's questions, as a department are you expecting any ... I am thinking particularly on the ambulance side of things, but any supply shortages that might affect your department?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Contingency plans have been put in. We are aware, as I mentioned before, that there is going to be some ... there could be some shortages. We are well aware of that and resources are being maintained to ensure that we have got enough medicines and so on to see the Island over for the next ... during that period.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
There must be so many specialist items across the department, across policing and customs et cetera. From your perspective you have the stocks needed to get you through in the short term?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Yes. That is the expectation. The Department of Health have got even greater restrictions.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Yes. No, but that is specifically Home Affairs. Can I just ask what length of time you have planned that for, 2 months, 3 months?
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
We have planned at least 3 months. You have already mentioned medicines and that is heavily linked to the health resourcing. But each organisation within the department has done an assessment of, as you say, essential kit, supplies for at least 3 months.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
There is no point in me trying to guess them, because I do not know.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
I just wanted to pick up on fuel. Has there been any risks on the fuel supply side?
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
There is a fuel plan for the Island. We have got bunkered fuel, we have access to fuel in the supply chains of course built in. The fuel challenge is not just for our department, but for the whole of the Island and all that is covered off, yes.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Brilliant, thank you. Taking you back to kind of relations with the U.K. and the U.K. Home Office in particular, in the event of a no deal, do you see any change in the relationship that you have at the moment with the Home Office in the sense of ... I guess really I am asking, does the Home Office take a greater lead on the work that you do? Does the Home Affairs Department still remain master of its own destiny? I guess it is what happens there in the event of a no deal.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
We remain masters of own destiny, of course we do, but in situations like this, there has got to be co-operation with other jurisdictions, particularly the U.K. That has been extremely positive. You will have heard on the media the sort of work that has been going on in the south coast to ensure that our supplies are maintained via Portsmouth or Liverpool, if it were necessary. But Luke's group are in constant contact with the Home Office and the other groups in the U.K. to ensure that all of our interests are aligned, that they understand our concerns and they are very responsive to them.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
If I could just add that, if anything, Brexit has been a positive contribution to our relationship. Where we were considering legal changes with our immigration rules once every 6 months, it has focused us on huge changes very quickly and it has meant that our colleagues in the Home Office have been more considerate over the effects to us than they probably would have been, knowing that the C.T.A. is going to affect us equally as it will to them, so I think it has been almost beneficial in our relationship.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Sticking with the idea of how things may change in terms of our relationships, Jersey's immigration policy itself, do you envisage post-Brexit - and particularly in the event of a no deal, but post-Brexit - Jersey aligning its immigration policy more so with the U.K. or maintaining its own independent policy?
The Deputy of St. Mary : Maintaining it.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Yes. You may be talking about something different, but our immigration policy, our immigration rules, has to align.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Yes. I am talking about our migration policy in that respect, yes, but carry on.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
It has to align with the U.K. In fact, it has done since, I do not know ...
Deputy K.F. Morel : No, I appreciate that.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
... for a long time. Any rules that we make and any alterations we make have to ... it does not have to follow precisely, but it has to align with the policies of the C.T.A. and that is why we have the C.T.A.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Yes, I do appreciate that. So migration policy in that respect, do you imagine our migration policy aligning more with the U.K.'s migration policy or maintaining our own independent migration policy?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
From that perspective, that would be totally down to internal matters. That will be the States of Jersey's decision on migration policies.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Yes, so you do not see us moving closer towards a U.K. hostile environment style migration policy, that sort of thing, just because ...
The Minister for Home Affairs:
That would be a matter ... not because of Brexit, that would be a matter for the States to decide. We now have a group looking at it and hopefully the Council of Ministers is going to bring a migration policy. I am not sure if it is later this year, I cannot remember, but that will be a matter for the States. It is an internal matter, not a matter for anybody else.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
As far as E.U. nationals wanting to come to work in Jersey - and I apologise, you have partly answered this before - after Brexit, in the event of a no deal, because we do not know what any deal might include, so in the event of a no deal, will they need work permits to move here?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
If there is no deal on the 29th, thereafter they will need a permit to remain, temporary leave to remain up to 3 years after they come, the first 3 months. For that period, my understanding is that - correct me if I am wrong - they will not need a work permit. Longer than that, yes, they would.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
That would be the 3-year permit you are talking about?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
For the first 3 years they would not need a permit, they have got temporary ...
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
That is independent from our work policies, where if you need a work permit now, you will need a work permit then. That does not change.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
As far as pre-settled status, just to understand, how does the pre-settled status scheme work in the sense of people coming after Brexit? Is it the case that they will be able to apply to move into that kind of settled status?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Pre-settled status is for those people who are E.U. nationals who have not been here for 5 years, so those who are arriving today, for example, can apply for pre-settled status, they could be granted it and then they would be granted full settled status after they had been here for 5 years. If there is a deal, it will be those arriving up until the end of 2020 could apply for pre-settled status. If there is no deal, then certainly those arriving up to 29th March will be able to apply for it. They would then have to remain for those 5 years to be granted the settled status.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
Just going on from that, I am still not clear as to differentiating between those who are here now and any future ones. What right do we have to set our own temporary work permit availability of spaces, as it were?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Work permits are different to the settled status.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
Sorry, let us concentrate on the work permits only then. Are we beholden to the U.K. Government in the number of work permits we can give?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Generally speaking, no. As you know, I have given permission for the farming industry to employ up to ... and I cannot remember the number. How many was it?
Deputy K.F. Morel :
One hundred and forty, I think.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration: I think it was 120.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
One hundred and twenty, I think that was the other number I had.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Yes, we have moved on from that. That does not cause any difficulty, because in fact the U.K. have agreed to a small number of work permits for non-E.U. nationals to come and work in the agricultural and horticultural industries in the U.K. I am expecting ... I have had requests from the hospitality industry for a similar concession and that is currently being considered now, to make a decision on that.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
Yes. What I am trying to get at is that you decide the number you want, and you go to the U.K. for them to authorise that, do you?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
No, it is not a matter of authorising. We do the authorising, but out of courtesy, we speak to them, we advise them just to make sure that it is not going to cause any difficulties with the arrangements under the C.T.A. But we do have the absolute right to make our own decisions, but we are not going to make decisions which could jeopardise the future of the C.T.A. That is why we communicate the decision we want to make with the U.K.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
I understand that. Then my follow-on question is so as not to jeopardise those arrangements, once these people are in the U.K., authorised by Jersey to work here, they are presumably able to, during the duration of their permit, travel in the U.K., are they not, without any further ...
The Minister for Home Affairs:
If you are talking about non-E.U. nationals who are coming to Jersey to work on their 9-month permit, they have no right to stay in the U.K. at all.
The Deputy of St. Mary : Other than Jersey?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Correct, because the work permit designates who they are employed by and for what term they are employed for.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
Can it restrict their travel to the U.K. though?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Because we are in the C.T.A. - Luke, do interrupt if I get this wrong - there is physically nothing to stop them, but they would be illegal in the U.K.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
That is what I am getting at. I am just concerned that people might use Jersey as a way into the U.K. and what can the U.K. do about that?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
That is why we have to make sure that those who are bringing in non-E.U. nationals on work permits have got the proper controls in place. That is what we have done with the agricultural industry and if we are able to make arrangements with the hospitality industry, we will make sure there are similar controls in place as well.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
If I can just add for a bit of clarity, you are absolutely right, Minister ...
The Minister for Home Affairs: Thank you.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
... that those people that are issued a work permit to come and work here such as the agricultural workers, they have free movement within the C.T.A. to visit and travel. However, they cannot then go and work in the U.K. legally, they would have to regularise that immigration status if they wanted to transfer to the U.K. The majority of such circumstances would probably require them to have to travel home and reapply for a further or different work permit in a different jurisdiction. It is not usually common to be able to switch from one jurisdiction to the other.
[15:15]
The bottom line is that they can travel within the C.T.A. but their work permit is specifically for one jurisdiction.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
Okay. I was just trying to make sure that we were not used, as it were.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
This is very much as the Minister says: it is our protection of the C.T.A. to ensure that we are maintaining appropriate risk controls on those people that have been given permission to come in.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
Okay, thank you. Moving on through my agenda, as it were, you may have touched on this already: what overlap will policing have with other emergency services and customs for a post-Brexit Island? What overlap is there with policing with other emergency services at the moment?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
There is an extremely good working relationship between the customs officers and a special branch from the statutory Jersey Police at the ports and so on. The plan would be for that to continue that close liaison when Brexit occurs, whichever way that occurs. There is no reason to think that we would change that. We already had that very good working relationship, which might become even closer in the future.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
The question I do have, in the event of the proposal for the customs and police to be under one directorate going ahead, that presents no problem, there is no question about lines of communication between police at the moment and police and customs being fudged in any way?
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
There is already a Justice and Home Affairs Brexit Group that meet regularly, which includes all the blue light services, including police, Customs and Immigration, to share information and talk about planning for day one no deal. That will continue through beyond 29th March. We have been asked that question in terms of the operating model and if those organisations came together would that jeopardise or cause any difficulties ...
The Deputy of St. Mary :
Yes, that is really what the question is.
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
I think my answer has been quite consistent, that it probably enhances our response, because we can work more collectively together to deal with whatever challenge day one no deal may present.
The Deputy of St. Mary : Okay, thank you.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Just to pick up quickly from that, you mentioned agricultural workers coming in and the organisations managing that to ensure their backgrounds, if I understand that correctly, are being police checked in any way or can they be checked in any way with these countries we are perhaps not used to dealing with so regularly or is it a self-check arrangement?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
The businesses that are wishing to bring in non-E.U. nationals, they have to do their own recruitment, they want to make sure that they get the right people.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
What sort of documentary evidence would you be looking for to verify that is the case?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
All the applicants that come through will be subject to police checks, in the same way as those who wish to get permission to come into the C.T.A. will have to go through those checks successfully as well. On top of that, we are looking to always ensure that there is a supporting certificate to show that they have some kind of qualification or experience within the industry that we are looking to employ them for or that they are going to be employed for in the Island. In other words, in the nicest way, that the agency is not picking people off the street and that we have some confirmation that these people are going to be appropriately matched to the work they are going to be doing. Equally, give us some indication that they have a good reason to go back at the end of their trip, that people have homes, families and all the rest of it. That is part of the normal immigration checks that will be for any kind of person that is going to come on a temporary basis into the C.T.A., whether it is visiting or for temporary work.
The Connétable of St. Brelade : That is comforting, thank you.
Senator K.L. Moore :
In terms of Islanders and their ability to travel, in the scenario that there is a no deal, is there any likelihood that we would, as Jersey residents, need visas to travel in the E.U. in future?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
To the best of my knowledge, there has been no indication that travelling within the E.U., because of the conventions we have now signed up to ... there will be the nuisance of having to have international driving permits and different ones depending on which countries you are going to. Hopefully that will be the worse of the inconveniences that we will have to suffer, hopefully.
Senator K.L. Moore :
And a green card, is that correct?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Green card. I am not sure about the green card.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
This is in relation to the insurance? I will have to speak to colleagues to confirm it.
The Minister for Home Affairs: I always carry one, just to be sure.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
You can still get them, can you?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
I have still got one; I have had it a long time.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
I could answer that to give you some reassurance, that in effect there is a reciprocal arrangement to what we are proposing in that British nationals will be able to travel to Europe for 90 days, 3 months. If they wish to remain longer they would equally have to apply for a status or temporary admission to be able to remain for a longer period.
Senator K.L. Moore :
For people who perhaps own homes in the E.U., would that be an aggregated period of time in any one year?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
It would be down probably to the individual country they are going to. I would imagine it would fall into exactly the same format that we were just referring to: if they do wish to holiday for longer than 3 months they would need to acquire the appropriate permission to be able to stay for longer.
The Deputy of St. Mary :
A question off the agenda. There are some Jersey residents who have homes in France and elsewhere. As a matter of human rights law, can they be prevented from occupying their homes post-Brexit?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
This would be a matter for the E.U. for the jurisdiction they are living in. I would expect that if British people with a British passport are living in the E.U. that they would be subject to a settled status scheme from the E.U. I cannot confirm that. There has been no development on that, as far as I am aware.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
It is down to the jurisdiction. We are not being given any negative indication that it would be impossible for those people to be able to reside in their properties that they have got. I would imagine, as the Minister is saying, they will probably have similar sort of circumstances in terms of the checks that they go through in order to achieve their settled status or a version of a settled status.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
I do believe that some individual states in Europe have already said that there will not be any problems for new cases and those living in those particular countries, but what they have for that in the E.U., I do not know. Can you imagine what would happen if all the U.K. passport holders had to leave Spain?
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
Spain has already made it clear that they would be fine.
The Minister for Home Affairs: Yes. It would also be empty.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
They have granted continued residency and health services.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Could I turn your attention to the legislative programme? We have seen the settled status scheme and we have seen biometric data come through the States Assembly. I was just wondering if you could tell us of any more Brexit-related legislation that you are expecting to send via the Assembly or enact via ministerial orders.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
From now it will basically through ministerial orders. The vires has been given to the appropriate Ministers to do that in the short term that we need to, like the Withdrawal Bill, and that will end up being extended and other immigration rules will be done by order as appropriate. There will not be anything coming before 29th March to the Assembly.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
In terms of orders, do you have a quantity of orders that you know you have to sign between now and 29th March?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
It is probably going to be something like half a dozen, I would think, that you have coming for me.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
If you wanted the details we could get it together and we can pass back to the panel.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Yes, from a scrutiny perspective, it is just trying to get as much time in advance. The earlier we can know and can turn our eyes to it, the easier it is to then say yes or no.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
We are already committed that and as soon as we have got anything it will come straight to you, no question about that.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Thank you. That would be really helpful from our perspective. Do you know what kind of areas or subject matters?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
Do you want me to respond to this one, Minister? There is going to be one specific order, I understand, that will be in relation to C.T.C. (Customer Transit Convention) to ensure that we are going to be able to continue within that regime. There is some legislation in relation to that. The other order, I think, will only be the Immigration Bill. The others are ministerial decisions in relation to potentially a change to our export licensing. Also there will be 2 others, one in relation to the change to the leave to enter and remain directions and the immigration directions. Those 2 are the relative pieces of secondary legislation that will affect the temporary leave scheme and the ability for people to be able to come through on this automatic 3-month leave on entry, following a no-deal Brexit.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
In terms of export licensing ...
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
There are some changes that we are going to need to the licensing in relation to becoming more aligned with the U.K. as a result of our compliance for the customs arrangement. It means that we can do this within the changes that we have for our open general export licence and it will go through the Minister before those changes are made.
Senator K.L. Moore :
Are you able to give us a figure as to how much has been spent on preparations for day one no deal by your department?
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs: By our department?
Senator K.L. Moore : Yes.
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
There are probably 2 figures. Luke can give you the detail around the investment we have around, for example, software. Then there is probably a separate figure, which we do not have, around people, added opportunity costs and having to create teams and maybe an additionality in terms of work, but in terms of the investment around CAESAR and the like.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
Yes. The changes to CAESAR and to the settlement scheme that will be built in there are not really day one no deal-related. The settlement scheme is in place now and will be in place. Unless Brexit completely falls away, it will still stand, so that is not day one no deal. CAESAR needed the upgrade in order to be able to work more efficiently with commodity codes. This was something again we were going to need to put in place whether it was day one no deal or not. They were 2 significant bills, if you like, to be able to get those together. Nearly everything else, certainly within Customs and Immigration - and I know within the police as well - is being managed by redirecting resources. Some business as usual is having to be put on hold or certainly delayed for the time being, but is not something that has been forgotten, it is something that we are now prioritising. It would be ridiculous for us ... for instance, I have got one resource that I am putting across from our immigration casework team to join the Brexit team to get the temporary leave scheme running and delivered on time. In 2 weeks' time, if we have a deal, this person will go back to their normal duties. It would be ridiculous to employ temporary staff to get everything in place to find out within 10 days it is not going to happen. We are trying to be pragmatic. If we do end up in a situation where we definitely have day one no deal we could more readily determine what our future expenses and requirements are going to be.
Senator K.L. Moore :
There were distinct resource bids in the last Government, I seem to remember, and I presume that those have continued and there have not been any additional ones since then.
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
That is right. The 2 are mostly settlement scheme-related, so the first 2 were the 2 officers that sit on our Brexit team and they have been backfilled. To be fair, that is Brexit all round, so not just the day one no deal part of it, it is now dealing with day one no deal. That was to the tune of about £180,000. We have had a further bid for just under £90,000, which covered our casework officers for the settlement scheme. Again, these are Brexit-related, not necessarily day one no deal-related. Those are the bigger expenses that we have had in terms of the resourcing. The development of CAESAR was relatively hefty as well, but again that was a requirement that we had
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Can I ask how much CAESAR's development was?
Acting Director, Customs and Immigration:
It is split between Guernsey and us. It is the same developer. I think in total it was just under £500,000, so I think for us it was about £250,000.
Senator K.L. Moore :
If I could just go back to the resourcing issue - and perhaps it is just the nature of the question, still being directed at the idea of day one no deal - but perhaps if you have a gauge of the amount or the proportion of work that this issue has taken in relation to Brexit as a whole, is that quantifiable in any way?
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
The day one no deal you mean, over and above Brexit?
Senator K.L. Moore :
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
We probably could do. I reference the team that we are creating now across One Government, so it will not just be our department, that will be other departments as well. As Luke mentioned, others are having to stop doing business as usual because we need to be as prepared as possible as an Island. We could try and put some figure around that. It would not be easy, because some people are doing it virtually, some people are doing it fulltime and other people are doing it on a part-time basis to make sure we have the best response.
[15:30]
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
We never had any idea what would be in the deal, so you have to prepare for everything, worst-case scenario. If we have a deal, many of those things will be unnecessary, but some at random will be, so it is all on the same baseline.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Funding so far, has it come from the Contingency Fund or has it come from within the existing budgets?
Director General, Justice and Home Affairs:
It has come from within existing budgets, within departments at the moment.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Between now and 29th March are there any particular responsibilities or duties that you will be undertaking?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
We are keeping a close watch on what is going on and will react as appropriate to what the U.K. Government and the U.K. Parliament decide. It is very much business as usual, but I go back to where I started from in this discussion: full marks to Luke and his team. As I say, I do not think there is a jurisdiction that could be better prepared for a no deal on 29th March. I really hope a lot of that work will be totally wasted - do we not all - for the benefit of everybody, for ourselves, for the U.K. and for Europe. We cannot see into the future, but as I say, we are as prepared, I think, as we possibly can be.
Deputy K.F. Morel :
Thank you. Obviously I would like to reiterate that for Luke as well, because you have shared a lot with the panel over the last few months, so thank you for that as well. We will find out if you missed anything out. [Laughter] Thank you very much.
[15:31]