Transcript - Redress and Accountability Systems in Jersey - Anon 1 - 29 June 2020

Care of Children in Jersey Review Panel Redress and Accountability Review Witness: Ms. X

Monday, 29th June 2020

Panel:

Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier (Chair) Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier Deputy K.G. Pamplin of St. Saviour Deputy T. Pointon of St. John

Witnesses: Ms. X

[10.31]

Ms. X:

I now feel I am being interrogated. I know it is not the case.

Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier (Chair):

I know, I was really conscious of that. Please, please do not feel that way, the only reason we have done this is because we have to and it is about well-being of everybody. This is about taking as much information as we can, which is what the panel wants to do. We have put on the table in front of you information about giving evidence and there is also the terms of reference, the 5 things that we are looking - on the piece of paper on its own there - which you can take away as well. We will not use that again, because we will have to wipe the other thing down. It just says what the panel is trying to do. We recognise that this is a huge area and we are going to get a number of very different submissions of information. For us to make sense of that and make recommendations, which hopefully will improve the situation, which is what we want to do, then we will try and make

them around those areas, which are around - I have them in front of me here - accessibility of the

complaint system, whether complaints are upheld, if they are not what is the process, the understanding of processes which I do not want to make any outcomes until we have got the evidence but obviously understanding the way things work, the courts, the parishes and all of the systems that we have in the Island. It is a huge area so we are trying to focus in. Having said that, we will take as much information are we going to transcribe? Just explain that process because you will do it better than me. Sorry, we should introduce.

Scrutiny Officer:

We have got the last few cases from the Greffe as well, so what we are doing, just to make to make it really easy for yourself so you did not have to fill out something in writing, so we are going to record the proceedings, we will not be publishing that, it is just recording it so we can make a transcript of it so that it is all written down. We will pass that to you for comment and see if you are happy with it, and then if you feel like to you need to add anything, that will not be a problem.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I think one of the things that is important for us today is perhaps at the end you could just let us know as nicely and as gently as possible whether it is, even within this strange set up - we know it is weird

- that the process is supportive itself. I think it will be ultimately wrong if during this process and looking at our processes we get it wrong. I know it is weird with all these people, and with the drilling going in the background, which we cannot do anything about - you noticed it as soon as you came in - just to say we are trying to be as supportive as possible.

Ms. X:

Thank you, yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

As open as possible. So please remember that and if at any time

Ms. X:

I would not be here otherwise, I have had enough of all the rest.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Okay, that is cool, that is brilliant.

Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier :

Can I just say from the beginning that, for the record, I have been assisting Ms. X with the various issues she is going to be raising, just so everyone is aware of that.

It is really off putting, Mike, when you speak, hearing in there, is that something I have to get used to or ?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Unfortunately, we got feedback on there.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

It is just so that Deputy Pointon can hear us because obviously we have sort of we are making this up as we go along in terms of a system to get it to work with people not being here. We should be okay, but he will definitely hear you because the microphone is on there. But what we do not want to be doing is shouting across the room to be heard because that is hardly going to be conducive to a supportively run system.

Ms. X:

That is fine, I shall try and ignore the echo.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I am going to take my jacket off, I am absolutely boiling, if you do not mind.

Ms. X: Okay.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Okay, do you want to I do not know where you want to start or whether you want me to suggest a starting point?

Ms. X:

Well, if I start but I think the problem with me is I am spanning 2 years now, having followed the system to the letter to every avenue open to me and still, you know, we have got meetings next week, have we not? We still got things 2 years on that if I had not been tenacious, if I had not believed in justice, knowing I have evidence, I would not be here, the doors would have been shut on me long ago.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Can I just ask, because I want to really understand the timescales, they are really important for us, the length of time? Is that the timespan, 2 years, in terms of the

I began my first contact with the police was  .

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Right, okay, that makes sense, okay. Thank you.

Ms. X:

So it is 2 years now.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay, sorry, I interrupted.

Ms. X:

No, that is okay. I mean, you know the story, Mike, is it best I sort of start from the beginning but leave out try and leave out the emotion. That is the hardest thing for me and that is where I am asking you to guide me, if I do suddenly my voice breaks. There is a lot of emotion involved but at the same time I am strong person otherwise I would not still be here.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

It is the important because the others know nothing so start from the beginning.

Ms. X:

Exactly, yes. Okay, I started with quite a severe harassment case. I ended a relationship of 6 years and I was stalked, monitored, family involved, friends involved, I contacted the police eventually. He had stolen money from me as well so it made it a difficult situation where I could not cut contact completely because he kept pretending he was going to pay this money back if I would meet him, et cetera. It was quite a big amount of money. So I contacted the police and said: "What do I do?", they said: "Log everything." The behaviour got so bad towards the end of July I had to make a statement. It was witnessed and I had to make a statement. At that point this person knew the police were involved. Now, he had said to me in the relationship in the past that he had an informer in the police, a friend in the police, et cetera, and he certainly found out information which should have been confidential about my ex-husband and divorce. So I believed there was definitely he was getting knowledge from somewhere, I cannot tell you where, that is just what he told me. I then began receiving many, many threats. I asked for no contact after my first statement where they put me at medium risk, because I had not told them he had actually hit me because that is quite an embarrassing thing to say. So they put me at medium risk rather than high risk. P.P.U. (Public Protection Unit) seemed to be dealing with it really well, I was getting phone calls from the Domestic Violence Unit and suddenly all this stopped. They told me, first of all - having viewed quite a bit of

the evidence - they would be looking at 3 offences, computer misuse, telecoms offence and a harassment offence. They would immediately bypass a harassment notice and they would also look for a restraining order due to his job,  , and always in town and therefore me walking into town became an issue. I would get followed, I would get comments made. So this is what they were looking at and then all of a sudden I was not looking at any of his texts or his emails because I had gone no contact, I could not cope with any more and it is only later on when I saw those emails and texts, there were many, many threats there if I did not drop my police complaint, if I did not leave him with the money, if I did not do X, Y and Z he would ruin my life, he would destroy me, he would set me up, et cetera. I kind of looked at those at the time, probably in September, and thought: "You are just a bully, I have got the evidence, it will be dealt with." At the time, looking back, and I have to go forward to go back, 2 weeks after I made my first statement the police suddenly stopped their investigation without saying anything to me. It became me ringing up saying: "You were coming out yesterday to collect this evidence, you were bringing this witness in, what has happened, why is it stopping?" There were constant delays: "We are really busy. It is things like you ringing us up, taking this time." So I knew something was wrong but having never been through this before I did not know what was wrong. So my belief still to this day, but I do not know despite asking, is that he did try to set me up. Afterwards private forensic looked at my laptop and found - a laptop he had given me 6 years previously - it was set up to read and write - I am a real technophobe I am afraid - copy my information, all my files had gone through Bluetooth, which I do not even use Bluetooth, and presumably transferred to him. The police would not even look at that. So anyway, going back, they kept stringing me on, stringing me on. I was literally ringing up tears, I was at the refuge all the time, being followed, being harassed, my friends, my family, my sons, everyone gave statements. I had to ask for to give statements. A witness, a crucial witness, that was with me for a week and monitored him following me everywhere, because she was in the car with me, she is  she put in a statement as well. They refused to let her finish the statement.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Can I ask when this was?

Ms. X:

Yes, this was August 2018.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

The reason I keep asking that is

Ms. X:

It is all right, yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

it is really important, I think, the timescale.

Ms. X:

The timescale, yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Because within this time these events are happening so we get a clear picture of the length of time in which you had to put up with whatever you were putting up with.

Ms. X:

Yes. So my timeline-wise, because I will go into a lot of detail because a lot has happened, so you must, please do, pull me up because you do not need to know everything necessarily. Timescales was I first contacted the police at the beginning of June, they said to keep a handwritten log about every time he turned up at the house, every time he did X, Y and Z, contacted me, which I did and I put that into the police.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I am just jotting a few basics down so I can keep track, are you okay with me writing things down?

Ms. X:

Yes, of course. Of course.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Just out of courtesy.

Ms. X:

Tell me when to stop because otherwise it is like verbal diarrhoea with me, I am sure.

Deputy M.R. Higgins: Carry on.

Ms. X:

They told me to do that, as I say behaviour got so bad that I was terrified of doing it actually but I had to make a police complaint at the end it was 27th, 28th July. At that point I handed them the handwritten log that I had to do, which was quite extensive. That was my first statement. They began to do the job the way that you would expect them to do and then suddenly stopped. They kept me hanging on my file went from one department to another department and ended up in C.I.D. (Criminal Investigation Department). They told me that was because of the amount of money involved. So I said: "How can you pass my harassment file over to somebody new when it is not even finished? You have not collected the evidence that I am offering you." So they stopped collecting evidence. I am a bit vague there because I still do not know why they did it. I am still yet to find out why did you do this?

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Again, when was that? When do you feel that the evidence collection stopped?

Ms. X:

Middle of August.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Middle of August, okay.

Ms. X:

Yes, between the first and second week of August.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

For clarification, can you explain your friend who wanted to give a statement and they never took the full statement, when was that?

Ms. X:

That was around the August time. She was over with me the beginning of July,   I think it was, that year. When she realised how bad things were getting, she was still receiving messages from him about me, she decided she would put in a statement. She contacted the police to do this and sent them her voice messages and text messages that she had received, which were quite intimidating to her and she said he was being quite rude and aggressive. The police had all that, all the messages they received, all the voice messages they received. She has got notification of that happening, or an email to say that they received that. So she began her statement. They were supposed to send it back to her electronically as she was back in the U.K for her to read through and sign that she was happy with it. She pursued and pursued and pursued them and they never sent her the statement back to sign.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Can I ask you, a point of contact, a person at any one time or was it a department, was it a sort of generic number? The reason I ask the question is to get a picture when you say "they" that is a really interesting, I think, comment when you say "they". Whether it was particular people that you always had contact with or whether it was a general area?

[10:45]

Ms. X:

Because it moved departments I never really knew who I was with. You know, I would ring up

 that comes to mind. She seemed to be dealing with it when it went from P.P.U. to R.I.U. (Referred Investigation Unit) for whatever reason. She told me in email everything in email.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Can I just ask what P.P.U.? It is ironic

Ms. X:

Police Protection Unit, so any kind of domestic violence would normally go there. You would expect it to go there. When R.I.U. became involved around this time in August she told me she would be taking over the case because P.P.U. were busy. Now, I thought that was strange but I could not argue with it, as long as she did her job I do not care who was doing it, you know.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

R.I.U., can you explain that one?

Ms. X:

R.I.U., I actually do not know exactly, is it Response Investigation Unit? Something like that.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I think it is important that we know because none of us are really clear what these departments are, I think that is quite a key point.

Ms. X:

That is what I think, I was never told, Response Investigation Unit, I think. C.I.D. is I do not know the C.I.D. letters but I know it is serious crime

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

That is Criminal Investigation Department.

Ms. X:

Right, okay.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

We all know about those from the T.V. (television) unfortunately.

Ms. X:

 was a point of contact for a couple of weeks. She came out, she took evidence from my computer at the beginning of August. She saw the text messages, she took photographs of the gift left outside my door, she took a lot of information and a lot of evidence from me. When I next rung to speak to her I was put through to the sergeant. So then he became involved. She was in the background sort of thing and every time I rung they were busy. I know it sounds really strange. It is, it is still strange what happened to me. Long story short there, they kept hanging on and then said it was going to C.I.D. because of the amount of money and they wanted to keep both files together. I had a financial file, because I was told it was larceny by deceit, and I had a harassment file. Because of the amount of money involved I was told it was going to C.I.D. and my harassment file was going to follow because they wanted to keep them both together. I queried this because I said: "How can I have somebody else taking evidence when someone already has a mountain of it?" They said: "Oh, do not worry, it will be done, we just want to keep them together." So, again, I just had to say okay.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

When you say you were told in hearing I am trying to make sense, when you were told, by who? Was it clear that somebody had an overview of what was going on and was making a decision?

Ms. X: No.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Who do you feel you were told by? I am honestly not trying to catch anybody out, I am trying to get underneath the surface of if somebody is making a decision process and one of the key things that we are looking at is, is it clear to you that you understand the process

Ms. X:

Absolutely not. That is why I am still in what happened now. I do not know.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Can you see why I asked the question of who? It is a really interesting answer to get, who told you? Was it individuals ringing you? Did you, at any time, have a meeting with a person, a regular meeting, to inform you as to what was going on with your case?

Ms. X:

No, it was always me ringing saying: "You have not done this, you have not done that, why?"

Deputy R.J. Ward :

That is important, thank you.

Ms. X:

"Why? Why? You promised me this, look at this email, it has still not been done a month later", you know. So, no, nobody told me. It was actually going on behind my back. The next thing I knew is I get a call actually before I had moved I get a call from - and I do not mind mentioning him -

  , because if it is one person I would put at the top of all  

. The reason being for that is more recently he contacted the Women's Refuge,

when we had a new statement to make, behind everybody's back. He knew he was not welcome. Anyway he is the one that contacted me to say: "I have got both your files and I will be dealing with it." That is when went back to and said: "Why, what is happening?" and she told me what I have just told you: "We kept both files together." I was kind of in the dark of what was happening. Then he comes out to my house with somebody else, at some other point, with a file about this big, which it should have been and it should have been bigger because I had more evidence that I am offering them that is continuing to happen and they are refusing, refusing to even acknowledge it. I am saying: "Well, when is going to finish her statement?" "Oh, do not worry, we will get this done." So I was fobbed off the whole time. Eventually I get a phone call, 8 o'clock one night, and this was a really traumatic time, this guy is still following me, he is turning up at the house and my kids are seeing him at 1.30 in the morning sitting outside the house. I get a phone call 8 o'clock one night from   in September saying to me: "We are going to bring him tomorrow and issue him with a harassment notice" and I said: "No, you are not. I have not gone through 4 months of this for you to give him a piece of a paper saying you naughty boy."  u

. I could not believe that was happening. So he just said: "So you want me to cancel the

appointment?" I said: "Yes, I do, I want you to collect the evidence that you have promised me and you still have not done." The next thing I hear is I get an email, 10th October 2018: "10 o'clock this morning he was issued a harassment notice." Still have not collected any of the evidence. The evidence of intent that he would set me up. The evidence on my computer. They have got a lot of evidence. They have got enough evidence of what they took to show all those offences and there was so much more.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

So at that point of the harassment notice, did you feel that that was the end then of the investigation? Felt it was dealt with, that they were issuing a harassment notice and that would move on or did you feel that they or was it subsequently that they were going to continue but that may have been put in place to try and do something?

Ms. X:

No, that was the end as far as I was concerned. That was the minimum they could do so they did it. The minimum. They could not have done nothing with all what they had.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I am sorry to keep going back to this but I am just interested in the answer. You are not getting a regular meeting with someone to update you as to what is happening?

Ms. X:

Absolutely not, it is me calling.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

This decision made about the harassment notice was made by the person investigating in your opinion?

Ms. X:

No, he was I actually do not think he did any investigation. He was the one passed my files. They had stopped working on them before he ever got them. They still were not collecting anything. They were just keeping me hanging on. I would ring once week, I would think: "I will leave them to the end of the week, I do not want to both them" and then I would ring and they would say: "Oh, we are really busy, I do not know " This is one thing he said to me I could not believe: "I do not know if you have seen there has been a kidnap in the paper and that is taking all our time up." This is 3 months into my this guy is still being allowed to do what he is doing, upsetting me, my family, and, you know, everyone is now involved and  and he is turning around to me and saying: "Oh, we have got a kidnap case on, we are not dealing with you."

Deputy R.J. Ward :

This is all in September 2018?

Ms. X: Yes.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Your friend and her statement, when they say that she was not prepared to give a statement?

Ms. X:

That comes later. See I am still on the first bit. I am trying to keep it in pieces so we understand what is happening because it has gone a lot further than this.

Deputy M.R. Higgins: That is fine, you carry on.

Ms. X:

Yes, but it is a good point. Yes, a lot later. Yes. So that was what was done in October 2018.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

That is very helpful. I know you are concerned about going that is very helpful because we are getting a picture of the process there and that really helps. Thank you, that is great.

Ms. X:

The one thing I have found out, obviously since then, is I have done so much research myself, that the police actually say that domestic violence cases of any sort - it would have been easier if I had a broken arm or broken leg because people could see that, you know - should be dealt with in a timely manner. Four months, allowing this to happen and it is continuing to this day.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

You were living at home then?

Ms. X: Yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward : With your children?

Ms. X:

Deputy R.J. Ward :

So 4 months in this harassment notice happened. Did anything improve?

Ms. X:

I made 2 more statements immediately after that where he literally followed me now his job is   so I am not up against Joe Bloggs. He followed me

twice, came up alongside my car. Both times I thought: "Brilliant, I have got a camera here", it was near the Women's Refuge, Route du Fort and I reported it and both times the camera in the tunnel

they said there were not cameras, they were something to do with pedestrians so they were going to follow the cameras in the tunnel because he would have gone that way to go home. The first time the camera was facing the wrong way, the second time, which was a month later, a similar thing happened and the camera the glare from the sun would not let them read the number plate. So I said: "Go along Longueville Road where he followed me   " and I said: "Sure there must be a camera along there?" They said: "There is a private camera but we cannot positively identify his car." Now, this is an extra alongside all the evidence they have already got. The bigger picture is huge. I did a 3 hour statement both times and I said to the refuge after that that I am not reporting anything else because they are obvious not helping me. It was horrible the way I was treated, like I was the

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Just to be clear, sorry I keep interrupting but it really helps, the Women's Refuge was supporting you during this time?

Ms. X: Completely, yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

They were the support mechanism. You were not living there but they were supporting you, just to make that clear?

Ms. X:

Extremely supportive. I wanted the key worker she was with me whenever the police were contacted. So from about May that year when I tried to end this relationship.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Did the police ever speak to them?

Ms. X:

Yes, they were involved in all the meetings I had. Unfortunately my key worker left at the end of

. She had been at practically every meeting with me, with the P.S.D. (Professional

Standards Department) and as we have gone on through the ranks. She has luckily written notes which I am getting in a S.A.R. (Subject Access Request), which should be ready for me today or tomorrow. That said, I know what we went through and she was absolutely appalled. She actually said to the officers that came to the refuge meetings - I would not have meetings at the police station they had to be at the refuge - she

Deputy R.J. Ward :

The harassment notice, just to say, what did the police tell you would happen in terms of enforcement of that harassment notice for your protection?

Ms. X:

They did not tell me anything, I looked it up on Google.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

So you did not have a meeting and they did not come to say: "This harassment notice is in force and this is what you can expect from it?"

Ms. X:

No, when went out and said it is not good enough, kind of thing, when they come to the house they said: "Do not worry, your mum will be safe now and if anything else happens she can get a lawyer, and if the lawyer can find anything else we will help her." Which is absolutely ridiculous, I should not need a lawyer for justice or for something to be done.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Okay. So there was no clarity on what this harassment notice meant for you?

Ms. X:

None at all and that is a question I have got for the Chief of Police   . Because I have actually had 2 different when I phoned them since then, going back a long way now, when I phoned them when it came up and these 2 incidents occurred to me and to the refuge, a breach of harassment notice was immediately, right, you are in now, it is an offence now. When these 2 things happened obviously they did not want they know, the police know what they have got in this guy and they know what they should have done. So for them to pull him in again after will not make them look very good and I am aware of that, because they should have dealt with it in a timely manner to start with. So harassment notice, I was told when I contacted C.I.D., because this goes on, it is a long story and I am only right at the start, I was told it was indefinite. More recently I was told it was for a year. Nothing in writing, this is when I just asked the question

Deputy R.J. Ward :

You just anticipated my next question, which was: did you receive any formal acknowledgement of the harassment notice and what it means, the duration of it and support that you could expect during this process?

Ms. X:

Nothing. Everything I found out myself.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay, thank you.

Ms. X:

I still to this day do not know if it is indefinite or whether it is valid for a year because we have had more incidents - some of which have been directly to my phone so they do not need investigating - that I reported recently this year, only because my refuge worker was leaving and she said: "You have got to make a statement to police of all these things that are happening." One of them is an immediate breach without investigation. I am pretty much told it is not valid. So even though there is an ongoing investigation at the moment about the same person, they are doing nothing. I am not pushing it because they had all they needed before.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

You have got this process in place, you have got this harassment notice, it is not satisfactory to you but it is there, what next?

[11:00]

Ms. X:

Right, so what next. We will move on that horrible time and I went, immediately they gave me this message, to the P.P.U. anonymously. I rang them up and I said: "Okay, if I have got these messages" and I read out 5 messages out of 200 over a period of a week rather than months I said: "If I have this and I have found this on my computer, just in theory, I understand you have to see the evidence, but in theory what am I looking at?" I wrote his name down,  I think it was, and he said to me: "Immediately, because of the nature of those texts and the timescale involved, we would immediately bypass the harassment notice, we would be looking at a harassment offence, a lesser telecoms offence and possibly a computer misuse, but we need to see the evidence." I said: "Oh yes, I totally understand you need to see it, it is hearsay at the moment."

Deputy R.J. Ward :

What sort of date was that when you went to them? Just to get the timeline right.

Ms. X:

It was around 10th October, it would even have been the same day because I was absolutely mortified that this has happened. So he confirmed what I already knew, what the refuge already know, we know the word of the law and what is harassment, we know. I said: "Okay, so where do I go when that has not happened?" He said: "If you are not happy go to P.S.D." so the Professional Standards Department of the police. So guess where I went, the Professional Standards Department. Had a meeting at the refuge. Again this was October, around honestly within a couple of days of this happening, I pushed it all to happen. They came in, they heard what myself and my refuge worker had to say. I cannot remember  was there then as well. I cannot remember if she was on board at that time. They said: "Okay, we will go away and investigate."

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Can I ask again, sorry, but I think you can see a theme in what I am asking, when you say "they", did you know who? Were you introduced? Was it clear to you who would be dealing with things and you had a contact with? Was it clear to you who?

Ms. X:

Initially, yes,   was the one I was put in touch with. But then there was a D.I. (Detective Inspector) that just came on board because he realised this was quite a difficult case and he realised he saw some of the evidence I had and therefore they do not say but they know this should not have been done this way. They said it would take a few weeks to investigate and they would be investigating

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Did you know what they were investigating? Were they investigating what had happened in terms of the work of the police or was this a new investigation in terms of your case?

Ms. X:

No, I told them that the police had failed me abysmally, there was ongoing abuse and that they refused to collect evidence off me, they refused to let a witness sign their statement, et cetera, et cetera. They, in theory, knew nothing about it. They went away to do their job. On 9th November 2018 we had another meeting - so a month later - at the refuge, this is where   came in with   and both of them put their hands up and they said: "We are really sorry, we have found significant " formally admitted significant failings in the case. I knew but it was nice to hear this finally rather than it be hidden. What did I want them to do? It as formal or informal complaint. I said: "What is the difference?" One was a slap on the wrist and they were given a bit more training. I said: "That is not good enough. Because of what I have gone through that is not good enough." They said: "What do you want me to do?" I said: "I want you to reopen my case, I want you to collect the evidence that is there, available, relevant and in front of you and then I want you to put it to the Law Officers' Department for a decision whether to prosecute or not, but with all the evidence there." Because they formally admitted that a crucial witness statement was missed as well.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Did they give you this in writing or was it just a conversation?

Ms. X: No, no.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

You can see why I am being finickity here.

Ms. X:

Yes, but luckily I had a third party with me and that is what I have always done.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Right, okay, so there is a record of that?

Ms. X:

Yes,  would have made a record, for sure. So that is what they said: "What do you want doing?" and I said: "I want you to do your job basically. I want you to do what you failed to do last time. You have admitted there was failings, go and get the evidence and then put it front of and make an informed decision with everything there. That is your job, that is what I want done." They actually said, in front of my refuge worker: "What is your game here?" Oh no, that was a bit later. They could see I was not going to give up, they could see I had the evidence, they could see things were missed and it was a flawed investigation. I somehow heard about oh, that is right, then I next get a call from someone in C.I.D. oh, no, I have got something else. Sorry, there is so much.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

That is okay, it is all right.

Ms. X:

So P.S.D., their job is to investigate who you are complaining about within the police. Both of those investigators are ex-policemen. I should not really need to say anymore as an ex-policeman, they probably go out for lunch on a Friday as well.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Let me just correct this statement. Are they the 2 you are talking about or are you talking about the ones who

Ms. X:

No, no, those 2. P.S.D., those are the only 2 I had contact with in P.S.D. Yes, it is their job to actually and it is   that has given me the code of conduct, et cetera, and policy and procedures, even though they do not deal with the police, I have managed to get hold of various bits and pieces. P.S.D.'s job is to investigate who the complaint is about. When pushed, because we had a couple of meeting with them after this, at the refuge - again third party, everything I say has got third party or is backed with an email - they said: "Really sorry, it was taken out of our hands, C.I.D. did the investigation." So I said: "How can C.I.D. investigate what they did?"

Deputy R.J. Ward :

When you said you were given a choice, formal or informal, how were you given that choice? Was it just a conversation, you know: "What do you want to do here?"

Ms. X: Yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Or was it a process that you could identify as a process that you would be able to navigate your way through, if that makes sense, i.e. here is the informal process and what happens, here is the formal, take it away and look at it, decide what you want to do, come back and let us know? Or was it just a conversation?

Ms. X:

It was a conversation and I had to say: "What is the difference?" So I was told well the difference was a bit of slap on the wrist and a bit of training or official complaint sort of thing and I said: "Yes, of course it is more than informal complaint, all I want is you to do your job."

Deputy R.J. Ward :

But were you clear what that job was? I know it sounds like a

Ms. X:

Not then but I am now. It is to collect all readily available evidence. Not to choose what to collect.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

But not at that time when you had that meeting. This is so important, and that is why I said a timeline is important. You had a meeting with the Professional Standards Department, was it clear to you beforehand what their role was, why you were meeting them and what you could do with them? Or was that something you had to look at later?

Ms. X:

No, it was what I learnt from the conversation I had with them. It was P.P.U. telling me to go to them is the only way I found out about them. If I had not made that phone call to say do these messages really just offer a harassment notice, I would never have known about P.S.D. Maybe I would have found out from Deputy Higgins, but you were not on board then were you? But I do not know maybe I would have found out from somebody else but maybe not.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I have never heard of them. I think it is just relevant to say so that you feel a bit more I am not trying to be clever here, genuinely never heard of them.

Ms. X:

I have learnt a lot, I tell you. I wish I had not.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

After that then, you said C.I.D. took it on, what did you get from them?

Ms. X:

I got nothing whatsoever from C.I.D. P.S.D. came and told me that: "Hands up, we found significant failings and some of the evidence had been missed, including crucial witnesses" they did not say everything that had been missed but they gave me a coupe of things. It was only later on we presumed they had done their job and they had investigated the unit, C.I.D., that were the last ones to have my file and made this decision. It was only later on where we pushed for something and said I cannot even remember exactly what we were asking at the refuge but they said: "Really sorry, it was taken out of our hands and C.I.D. did the investigation." This will all be in my refuge notes, which is good.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

So basically what you are saying is the C.I.D. investigated your complaint against C.I.D.?

Ms. X:

Yes. Exactly, exactly.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

When did you find that out? What is the timeline? Is that around sort of

Ms. X:

That was November no, no, November was the first meeting with P.S.D., they did not tell us then so about December. I will be able to give you a definite date when I have got my S.A.R.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

It is just general so I can see

Ms. X:

Yes, it is about December time.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I can sort of see the timescale unravelling anyway.

Ms. X:

Well, we are over the first year now. We are getting into the second year.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

But it is so important that we know the contact you have had, whether you understood in terms of what we are doing the processes as much as anything.

Ms. X:

No, I have been misled right the way through. What I have found out now is through pure need to find out myself.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I am asking because I cannot remember the date myself, when was your friend told for a start they would not accept her statement? Did the P.S.D. know this? Did they say

Ms. X:

They did not say anything to me, they just said it had been missed. So what happened next was after P.S.D. and me saying: "I want you to do your job. That is all I want, I am not interested in you sanctioning them or tapping them on the wrist, go and do your job" they began a review of my case. I say "review" because to review it they would have had to collect the evidence that was missing.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Was that C.I.D. who did that?

Ms. X:

Yes. C.I.D. did the review. I was   rang me up and said: "I have got your " she sounded so believable, as they all had. She said: "Please put your trust in me, I am the only one that knows about this, I am going to be reviewing the case, I will be collecting the evidence." I thought: "Brilliant, finally I am getting somewhere." She made regular phone calls, once a week for the first 3 weeks. She said she would be ringing me every week. Come Christmas, and this started beginning of November, they still had not contacted to allow her to finish her statement. So I emailed . We are in contact maybe once a month, you know, we are friends but we are not in contact all the time. I emailed her and I said: "Look, can you ask them to let you finish your statement if that is what you want to do?" and she said: "Of course I will." So she emailed them, asked them if she could finish her statement. She did not get a response from them, I pushed again and it was only in January, end of January, or a couple of weeks in January where because I pushed and pushed and pushed they then contacted and said she could finish her statement, which she did. They already had the voice messages and the text messages from her. But she finally finished this statement and within a day, because I have all her emails now she sent through to me as this has progressed, to the day where   went back to her and said: "Thanks very much, we have received your signed statement." A day later I get a message saying your file has been submitted to the Law Officers' Department. But I did not know they had received statement at this point.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

So that is January 2019.

Ms. X:

Either the day before or the day after or the same day literally that my and I said: "How can you submit to the Law Officers' Department, you have taken none of the missing evidence off me? You have asked me nothing. I have had to push for statement but what about all the stuff I have got? What about the computer?" They sent people out to look at the computer, they were real concerned about what they found on the computer then they gave me date criteria to meet where I

was not with this so he had no physical access. I got a private forensic involved because I did not trust them. They had my computer but did nothing with it, by the way, back in the August. I engaged a private forensic who recorded what he did and copied the hard drive, cloned it, because he said: "If it is going to be for the police I need to record everything I do." I said: "That is fine." With the help of him and a really good I.T. (information technology) person, my son, we found all my files and folders had been transferred on a date within the criteria the police had given me in January, February that year where everything had been electronically transferred from my computer to somewhere else on a read and write basis. I called them, I said: "I have met your criteria" they came back and said: "Your case is closed."

Deputy R.J. Ward :

So they closed the case after submitting to the Law Officers?

Ms. X:

I do not know when they closed it. It is all a question mark. They told me in March they closed it, in February they told it went to the Law Officers' Department for the second time.

Deputy R.J. Ward : The second time?

Ms. X:

Yes, sorry, the first time it went to the Law Officers' Department was apparently just before the harassment notice was issued. So the first week in October 2018.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Right, okay.

Ms. X:

Sorry, that is important and I missed it out. So twice it has supposed to have gone to the Law Officers' Department. That will make more sense as I carry on with the story.

[11:15]

So October 2018, I have it in writing that they submitted it to the Law Officers' Department and in February 2019 I had an email they had submitted it to the Law Officers' Department, even though they have not collected any evidence off me.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

So the first time resulted in the harassment notice. The second time they closed the case?

Ms. X:

The second time was supposed to be the review, you see, and they did not review anything, they just kept me hanging on and promising me things yet again. So it was like a repeat of the 4 months where they did not anything in 2018. Let us just fob off, let us just keep her happy. It was only me pushing and   coming to them as well saying: "Am I going to finish the statement that I started in October 2018?" that they allowed her to do that. I found what they said on criteria on computer, because I was pushing for that as well because naturally if all my personal data has been stolen I want to know where it is and why.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

So when the Law Officers you knew that they had closed your case?

Ms. X:

I do not know who closed my case. There is a huge question mark: did the Law Officers ever get this? They say they did.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

How did they inform you that the case was closed?

Ms. X: By email.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Did they write to you? They emailed you?

Ms. X:

By email because I was still pushing for things to be done. The first time was a harassment notice has been issued, the second time was the case is closed. That is what they said to , that is what they then said to me. Because I had just said: "Look, I have found the criteria you have asked on the computer." "Well, the case is closed." So I wrote to   and I said: "How can you close " I have missed out a really important bit. I am so sorry but so much has happened and it is here so I am going through it in my head all the time, nothing on paper.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

That is all right, that is okay.

When it was going into the fourth month of review nothing was happening, I actually contacted that is when I wrote to , I said: "All due respect, every time I speak to   about collecting this evidence for the review, we are going into the fourth month, nothing has been done. She keeps telling me she is too busy." I said: "Please, can you allocate her a week and get this done?" I said: "I have been waiting since ... and it is ongoing." That is when I got an email to say the case was ... the file had been submitted and the case was closed, as soon as I wrote to them saying: "Allocate her a week. It will take less than a week. I will come into the police station. I will provide her with all the evidence you do not have."

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Is that that the review is closed?

Ms. X:

Yeah. Well, no, just the case. Again, the case, that is all I know.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Or the whole ... and they told you they would not be taking it any further at all because they ...?

Ms. X:

They did not tell me anything, they just said it was closed.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

Ms. X:

So I continued: "How can it be closed?" I think that is the point where we had another meeting with P.S.D. and I got involved with J.P.C.A. (Jersey Police Complaints Authority) next.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Right, okay, yeah.

Ms. X:

The Police Complaints Authority.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

When was that, the J.P.C.A.? Can you remember that?

I began conversing with them because I had heard the name through P.S.D. in around November 2018.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

Ms. X:

I sent them various emails through, et cetera, but I suppose the important thing that came out of that was I again put my trust in them. I was liaising with someone called , who was lovely. She was ringing me. She would sound like she understood what I was going through. Then d

 emailed me and said it was really important that I put a statement in to J.P.C.A. at the same time as P.S.D. put in a report of their findings to J.P.C.A. Long story short, despite many emails, P.S.D. denied me and put their report into J.P.C.A. behind my back and behind the refuge. The refuge has been with me all through this. They kept all ... a lot of the emails. So, P.S.D. put their report into J.P.C.A. around - and I say around because they did not tell me - June 2019.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

Ms. X:

So that was what ... March they closed my case again with nothing done, June, April, May, a couple of months after it was in at J.P.C.A. But they have not told me and I said to P.S.D.: "You promised me a statement." I have an email from them that once the review is complete I will be able to do my statement. We had had another couple of meetings with them. They denied me making the statement. J.P.C.A., I wrote to  and I said: "Look, here is a copy of your email telling me it is important I make my statement. P.S.D. are allowing me to do this. Can I come to you and make my statement?" Because I was going to say they have not done anything, because it is true, they have not done what they said they were going to do.  , he did not respond to me for a long time and then my refuge worker wrote to him again and he said: "We have a statement from you that P.S.D. wrote from your last meeting." I said: "How can P.S.D. write my statement?" That is how I am left. Now I have done a S.A.R. to J.P.C.A. and they will not provide me any information at all.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Okay, so that is where you are now? You are with a case that you believe they have closed. The J.P.C.A. are ...

They have denied me the right to ... I was the one that made the complaint but they have taken nothing off me. Who told them not to? I guarantee you it was the police or P.S.D.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

So you have a complaint in place with the J.P.C.A. but you ... do you know what has happened with that?

Ms. X:

No, it is closed. They closed up.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

They closed the complaint, okay.

Ms. X:

Right, so J.P.C.A. said to me: "Yeah, of course we will take your case on, we are independent." You make a statement, they put their report in: "We will come to you if we need anything, though we do not usually confer with the public, but if we really need something we will come to you because we have been liaising with you." I was denied making this statement. They told me it would take up to 40 weeks to investigate, up to 40 weeks. I thought: "Oh, great, but at least it will be in the process and they are independent" so I believed in them. Within 2 weeks they closed it.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

How did you find out about that? Again, I keep asking this question because it is ...

Ms. X:

No, I found out through ...

Deputy R.J. Ward :

... one of the key things that we need to know is ... yeah.

Ms. X:

How did I find out, Mike, that they ...?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Well, certainly they have confirmed it in some of these letters.

Ms. X:

Yeah, but how did I actually find out they closed the case? Probably because they were not conferring with me and I was emailing asking what had happened.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

But there was not a formal process of a letter that said: "This is what we have undertaken, this is our outcome, this is ... and, therefore, we consider the case to be closed"?

Ms. X:

No, because they did not undertake anything and they closed it within 2 weeks. Why?

Deputy R.J. Ward :

So what is your understanding of their outcome?

Ms. X:

They did not do their job.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

All right, but what was their recommendations or was it there was no case to be answered or ...?

Ms. X:

Well, on all the emails and speaking to them they said, you know: "Do not worry, Ms. X, you will have your say and you will have your voice when you put your statement in" but I was denied making that statement and, believe me, I tried.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

But the process that you had entered into, what was your understanding of that process?

Ms. X:

That they were going to investigate my complaint.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Yes, and that is it, yes.

Ms. X:

That was their job, independently of the police, which was important to me at this stage.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Okay, but again you did not have regular contact with them where they said: "This is where we are going with it. This is the process at the moment"?

Ms. X: Nothing.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Did they at any time tell you what the outcomes of that process could be, i.e. you could be ...

Ms. X:

No, no, I was not told anything. I was just told I could make a statement, and I thought: "Good, I can make a statement because then my voice is heard, what has happened is heard, and then you can go away and do your job and investigate them independently." I believed they were independent.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Where are you going next?

Deputy M.R. Higgins: Could we just join in here?

Deputy R.J. Ward : Yes.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Ms. X has put in a subject access request on the J.P.C.A. to get records of her thing. They have written back and said they do not have to provide the information and they are exempt, and this is one of the issues that I have raised with the Attorney General and got a written answer for, where he is saying that they are exempt. I might add we are planning ... we have a meeting ... Ms. X can talk about the Data Protection Office with the whole saga there, but we have a meeting with

 coming up. I have given the information to , including the Attorney General's answer, and he is going to look into it when he gets back from . But, as I say, the J.P.C.A. say they are not subject to the law on subject access under data protection and they have quoted various exemptions. says yes, they do have certain rights, but I think they are applying it across the board rather than to the specific issues, but that will be dealt with with the Information Commissioner,  

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

Ms. X:

They have had contact with the Data Protection so many times. We have had we have had the J.O.I.C. (Jersey Office of the Information Commissioner) office asking them for this information, and even   had a meeting with , did she not, and she said it was a very strange meeting. If they have nothing to hide, why do they not provide it? Even if they do not provide it to me, provide it to J.O.I.C. and J.O.I.C. can see. They know the case. Why are they not providing the information?

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Yeah. Are you still in a situation where the harassment, as you see it, is happening?

Ms. X:

It is happening constantly. It has affected my  

. It is quite covert stuff.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

What about this order? How about this harassment order? How is that being enforced? Is that still in place?

Ms. X:

I do not know.

Deputy R.J. Ward : You do not know?

Ms. X:

I do not know.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

The reason I ask the questions is because, like I say ...

Ms. X:

If the harassment notice ...

Deputy R.J. Ward :

... we want to know what you know and what you understand about as much as anything the processes that you have been through. I know I have asked the same question at every single stage but ...

Ms. X:

No, it is fine, it is fine. I am in the dark about what this means.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

Ms. X:

I have found out myself what a breach of harassment is and my refuge worker - they are quite knowledgeable on harassment and abuse and stuff like that - they said to me: "Ms. X, he has breached his harassment notice how many times? Go and make a statement. We are not telling you what to do but please ..." Because if you think about it, I am going through this, but how many other poor women have they left in this position?

Deputy R.J. Ward :

So if tomorrow you thought: "Right, I want to go and make a statement now" ...

Ms. X:

I did this in February.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Okay. Where do you go to? What is your process? Is it ...

Ms. X:

I ring the police and I tell them and they send someone out.

Deputy R.J. Ward : They send someone out.

Ms. X:

I will not go to a station. I want someone with me. The last one I did was at the refuge on 28th February this year.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay, and ...

Ms. X:

I guarantee there was a breach of harassment by the sergeant that was there - there was 2 of them

- on the one message on my Nokia phone, let alone all the other bits that they would need to further investigate, the social media stuff, et cetera.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

But if you wanted to know is this harassment order still in place, what sort of behaviour should not be happening, who would you go and talk to?

Ms. X:

I look at the law. I do not trust them.

Deputy R.J. Ward : But is there a contact?

Ms. X: No.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

Ms. X:

No, and I do not trust anyone there because more recently ... well, god, we are now on the Law Officers' Department, okay, so ...

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Sorry, are we finished dealing with the police up to that point?

Ms. X:

Well, as much as I can probably get into the ...

Deputy R.J. Ward :

No, I think that has been really useful and forgive me for asking but ...

Ms. X: Not at all.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

... I think that is the key for us to be looking throughout in terms of you understanding where you are.

Ms. X:

If I had to give you ...

Deputy R.J. Ward :

If I was to ask you to summarise where you were now with the police and your case really simply ... I know this is a simplicity and probably the wrong thing to do, but what would you say? Would you say ...?

Ms. X:

Where am I now? They would be quite happy if I went silent, which I think they thought I would do a long time ago because I have had so many doors slammed in my face, so many misleading, so much lies.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Do you feel safer? Do you feel that anything has been dealt with that will make you safer?

Ms. X:

No, and I know as soon as the ... you see, I was monitored in my home. What , the due diligence guy that used to be the police here, he said: "Ms. X, they should have swept your home."  , he is this ... I have messages saying: "I have eyes and ears everywhere."

He knew where I was. He knew when I was coming in my house. He knew when I was out visiting   because he would send me a message: "Did not know you would be with him for so

long" with a crying face, as soon as I arrived. Is that my car being tracked? Is it ... how did he turn up at my house and leave all these gifts in the past when I was out? Within 5 minutes of  

 , there was a gift left. I had gone. He left a gift within 5 minutes of me going, because my  . That is going back to the past. That is what I went through in those 4 months while I was waiting for him to do stuff. He is still monitoring me. I do not know how. That is not my job.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Okay, yeah. No, I understand.

Ms. X:

I have a new computer. I have a new landline. I have a new mobile. I have done everything I can, and when I put this to police in February this year, they tried to write my statement for me again. They sent it back saying: "Have a look through this, add anything you want" and out of all these things I have changed, a new laptop, a new phone, a new landline ... I cannot remember what else off the top of my head.             I have emails all changed, passwords all changed, everything I can do. They have come back and said: "Ms. X will not change her phone number because it is inconvenient" but they miss out the 9 things I have changed. That says to me they do not want anything to do with this. What I forgot to say at the beginning, this man, the offender, has links to the police. He did    

. He has links with the police. I am not saying everybody likes him but he knows people

there.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Just one other point I think needs to be referred. Your     , is that correct?

Ms. X:

My    and he is absolutely amazed. He is not there anymore, but he is amazed at what has happened and he has warned his new girlfriend because this person has tried to contact her as well now, suddenly out of the blue, to try and get an avenue to my  , which gives an avenue to me.

[11:30]

He has warned his girlfriend about the behaviour he has seen from this person towards me and his sons. So, yes, he was  and he cannot believe really the way they have handled this at all.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

So you are now going to meet with the chief inspector?

Deputy M.R. Higgins: Chief of Police.

Ms. X:

For what it is worth, the new one that said in the paper that they will protect vulnerable Islanders.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Okay.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

But I might add this is a meeting that I have organised.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

Ms. X:

Yes, but since J.P.C.A. closed down my case, my next step was ... someone told me, might have been   at the time because she hand delivered a letter right to the Attorney General, so I thought: "My god, I do not really expect to be that high up but, okay, I will do it." I wrote to the Attorney General.    dropped it off for me, hand delivered, strictly private and confidential,   at the time. This was via the refuge so the emails were backwards and forwards to my key worker.   contacted her, so we had to accept that  ...

  had passed it on to  so now there was 2 private and confidential people involved in my case.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Just to clarify that,       of the Law Officers' Department.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay, so ...

Ms. X:

Yes, and my complaint there was the file, confidential information, health information, criminal information, they refused to have it dropped by a friend of mine that could have dropped it to the Law Officers' Department. They wanted to pick it up outside the offices,  did, so he picked it up from the refuge. It was asking for a review of my case, with a whole list of what the police had already, what they refused to collect, et cetera. I did keep a copy of this file, but after 2 months my refuge worker wrote to them and said: "Can we please have an update? We have heard nothing from you. This file was dropped 4th July 2019 at the Attorney General's Office."

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

Ms. X:

No, sorry, not at the Attorney ... it was supposed to be at the Attorney General's. He collected that file on 4th July 2019 and supposedly took it to the Attorney General's Office. So we had not heard anything, so my refuge worker, after a couple of months, said: "Can we please have an update?" No response. Couple of weeks later she wrote back and said: "Can you tell me what is happening in Ms. X's file?" Oh, and a pen drive, there was a pen drive in the file. The pen drive had a whole thread of all the emails of the police contact, what they had done, what they had not done, what they had sent to me, really important stuff, which was evidence. They did not do a review. The Attorney General wrote back to me and he said: "Drop your file, we will do a review." They could not have done that review without contacting me. That was made very clear on page 1. They would need to see the evidence that I had because it is on all different media platforms. I do not have the technology to get it all together.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

So this is July 2019. This is after the J.P.C.A. had closed their investigation into the processes that had gone on.

Ms. X:

Yeah, and I was not told this. I had to find out, okay, that is not good enough, where do I go now?

Deputy R.J. Ward :

What have you heard from them since July 2019?

Ms. X:

After ... so a couple of months later, probably August, September, when my refuge worker contacted them,   came back in an email to her, and these are some of the emails you have now and   has as well, to say the review has been done, the file has been destroyed, the pen drive has been destroyed. That is it, really.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

Ms. X:

So we turned around and we said: "Hang on a minute, you cannot have done the review because you did not contact Ms. X or myself," the refuge.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

You have a letter to say that that has happened?

Ms. X:

I have the letters, yeah, I have the email.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

Ms. X:

So in the next bit it said: "There was no way did it say you were going to destroy this file. It was highly confidential, sensitive information." It is actually classed, I know now, by Data Protection as being highly sensitive because it was health issues in there caused by this and it was criminal evidence, so it is a high classification. He said he had destroyed it and I was like, well, he does not know I have copies. He wrote back to my refuge worker and said: "Well, we did ask Ms. X to provide copies." She went back to him with every single email she had had with  since it started. I went back through 2 letters I had from the Attorney General. Nowhere did it say copies. Luckily we had them, but this was just another excuse for this: "We asked for copies." No, you did not. Why have you destroyed the file and the pen drive? You were not authorised to do that and I actually have ... he does not know yet, but I have a letter from the Attorney General saying, stating: "We will return your file and your pen drive to you." So then Data Protection got involved. I cannot even remember how I got to Data Protection, but someone put me on to Data Protection and I got them involved. They said: "Apply for a S.A.R. request, Ms. X, and then you will find out did your files get submitted even to the Law Officers' Department." They asked the question: who did the review?

 said: "I did it." They said: "Well, you did not contact Ms. X so how can you do a review without ..." Anyway, he said he had done it. Then they wrote back, J.O.I.C. wrote back to them and said: "Who has seen this file or who has had access to this file and the pen drive when you had it?" At this point we still thought it was destroyed. He said: "Only me" in email: "Only I have had access to that." That would have been good because it was ... you know, if it was not  

, he was the only one that should have had access to it. J.O.I.C. came back to me and said: "That is absolute rubbish." He said: "If I was to say I am the only one with access to your information here, Ms. X, if I got run over by a bus tomorrow, someone can come in and access that on my behalf." So he told me ... I do not know if you were there for that meeting. He told me that is absolute rubbish that only   could have access to this. So, he said: "Do a S.A.R. request." So I did a S.A.R. request and he said: "It is a simple one, they should not have too much on you and if you do not get an answer within the 2 weeks or the 28 days within the law, come back to me and I will help you." On the 28th day, the Law Officers' Department, , wrote back to me and he said: "I am sorry, we are going to be a bit longer." So they left it until the very last day: "We are going to be a bit longer. We have not had time," whatever it is. So I went to J.O.I.C. and I said: "Okay, they have done exactly what I thought they would do and what you said they would do." So he said: "Right, I am not going to say there is a complaint about this." He said: "I am just going to write and say I am involved with Ms. X. Ms. X has a complaint because this was a simple request. You left it until the last minute to tell her that you are not going to be providing it within the 4 weeks the law gives you initially."

Deputy R.J. Ward :

That is the S.A.R. request?

Ms. X:

My subject access request, yeah, to find out ... really, I wanted to know what did they receive from the police.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Yes, of course, yes.

Ms. X:

Because the police will not tell me what evidence was in my file despite numerous attempts. Because I want to see what evidence they actually put in, if they submitted it. There are so many question marks what they did, and I cannot find the answers and hopefully the Chief of Police will be able to find them if he is interested, but I doubt if he is. But anyway, they said they would do that, and the next bit is the best bit. So he has destroyed my file. He put in an email it has been destroyed. He knows it is highly confidential, destroyed my file and the pen drive. Within 2 weeks of J.O.I.C. saying to them: "Look, we really could do with this. There has been a complaint. It should not take more than 4 weeks. Can we have this data as soon as possible?" I sat in there with a meeting ... because they had said: "Ms. X, your envelope has arrived with your S.A.R." within 2 weeks of them emailing. So obviously it could have been done and now J.O.I.C. is involved we had better get it off to her, you know, we cannot keep her delayed any longer. I opened that sealed envelope in front of ... 5 people anyway, whether it was you or just the other 5, I do not know. Out came my file and my pen drive that were photocopied into the S.A.R. as well, with yet another name of a  

: "I am really sorry, we have found your file. I know we thought it had been

destroyed or you had been told it had been destroyed and the pen drive as well. We found it ..." I cannot remember, I have it on there. We were just absolutely ... it just dropped out of this envelope.

Deputy R.J. Ward : When was this?

Ms. X:

November last year.

Deputy R.J. Ward : November.

Ms. X:

Would I have ever got that file and pen drive back if J.O.I.C. had not been involved? I doubt it. Would I have ever known this without J.O.I.C. involved? I doubt it.

Deputy R.J. Ward : So ...

Ms. X:

So it appeared and it had been photocopied. So far we know 3 or 4 named people that have had access to the file, photocopied it, secretaries,  , S.A.R. This is a private and confidential file.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Okay. So what is happening now, though? Now you have the file back ...

Ms. X:

Oh,  was asked to come for a meeting. He has refused. Refused, refused, refused, refused. I had a meeting with the Attorney General,   , at Christmas last year.

Deputy M.R. Higgins: At the refuge.

Ms. X:

At the refuge with somebody else ... with somebody else, about something else. That was purely: "You are the new Attorney General. What was in my file? Did you receive my files on those 2 dates from the police and, if so, what was in my files?" That was my question to him, nothing to do with what Howard Tobias had done. I was keeping that separate with J.O.I.C. Data Protection had been asking him for a meeting numerous times and he had always refused.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Is that the A.G. (Attorney General) or ...?

Deputy M.R. Higgins: That is  .

Ms. X:

No, , sorry.

Deputy R.J. Ward : , okay.

Ms. X:

It was very recent ... that same week, because I had the appointment with the Attorney General. He was coming to the refuge, and they have to get authorisation for men to come in there, so they had authorised him to come and have a meeting with me and my key worker for that specific reason.

 turned up on the doorstep of the refuge that night and he was not allowed in. I was asked: "Do you want" ... can he come into the meeting with me. I was asked that by the Attorney General and also by my key worker. I said no. I see his face. I said: "This has nothing to do with what he has done. This is trying to get what was in my file." They made him sit in the hallway and then he disappeared after about half an hour because he was not authorised to be there. He did that totally behind everybody's back and the next day, when I rung Data Protection, I said: "How come he turned up at that meeting? It put me in a really awkward position because I told my refuge worker there is one man and that is the Attorney General, and that is what was authorised." I said: "Apart from anything else, it was a separate issue." She said: "Ms. X, we knew nothing about this." She said: "He rung us to say: I will not need a meeting because I am going to the refuge to see Ms. X tonight'." They thought I knew about this meeting and I knew nothing about it.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Okay. So what was the ... the purpose of that meeting was to find out about your file?

Ms. X:

Yeah, that was new ... you know, A.G., let us find out what was in that file.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Yeah, but underlying all this, what about the case itself? That has been closed by the police. The harassment is ongoing, in your view. I say that because I have to try and be detached from this.

Ms. X:

It is ongoing, it is as simple as that. It will continue. We have that personality disorder that will continue this.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Okay. So in your opinion, what are your mechanisms to try and stop this?

Ms. X:

Privy Council if I need to. I will go public if I need to. I just want them to do their job and I hope this meeting with the Chief of Police, who has pledged all these things in the paper and the domestic abuse campaign that was so rife when all mine was going on: "We take everything really seriously, does not matter when it happened," I am going to be saying to him: "You look at this evidence and tell me what that means in law. What does that mean to you?"

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Can you just go back?   , what did he say?

Ms. X:

Oh, that was interesting, yes, sorry, important point. He said to me: "I am not really sure, but I trust and I will ask him." We said: "Please, no, we do not want  on board

at the moment. We are asking you this question as a fresh face, knowing nothing that has gone on. Can you have a look in the records and see what you received from the police, if anything? What

evidence did you have to make the decision on, to base your decision not to prosecute on?" He came back with ... I have not even really read through it yet. I was just absolutely disgusted with what I saw. He came back eventually with a P.D.F. (portable document format) ... what did  call it? You have a copy of it, a P.D.F. that could have been edited by Word or anything, one line on ... you know, one word on each line in some places, a really badly done one, very unprofessional, that I think he got from the police, actually, to say: "This is what we received." On there ... I did not look because I am sick of the lies. I do not need to look. I know what happened. But I saw  name so immediately my eyes went to that. On that, it said: "    

 refused to have anything to do with the case and refused to sign her statement." This is this year. This was January this year that I was presented with that. I took it ...

Deputy R.J. Ward :

This is the document that you got from the A.G.?

[11:45]

Ms. X:

Yeah, from the A.G.

Deputy R.J. Ward : After you asked for it?

Ms. X: Yeah.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Or as part of the process of explaining why there was not a ...?

Ms. X:

After I asked for it. No, they have never ... I have had to ask for everything. I think that is where your interest is.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Yeah, yeah.

Ms. X:

I have not known anything. I have learnt as I have gone along and it has been hard work. Yeah, so it said she wanted nothing to do with it. So I thought, well, I know that is a lie. I know everything they have done is a lie but there is proof. There is another bit of proof. So my refuge worker photocopied that one bit about  and I sent it to her and I said: "We have just received this from the Attorney General. Do you mind commenting?" That is all I said. She came back and she said: "What a load of lies." She said: "Ms. X, you know this is lies." I said: "I know, I just wanted you to comment." So what a load of lies. If they are doing this to you, who else are they doing it to?

Deputy R.J. Ward :

So you have a document from the A.G. which purports to explain why there was no prosecution?

Ms. X:

No, it does not do that at all. It just lists the evidence that in theory they had, but it is all misrepresented. The bits I have seen, and I will not read through it all because I get so angry and so traumatised because I know what happened, but there is 2 things that I have seen,  being one. That is a massive one. Most people in my situation with abuse do not have witnesses. I had 2 witnesses, one of whom they interviewed after they closed the case and they threatened he would be arrested if he went down to the police station because of unpaid parking fines. So they have basically obstructed him giving a ... because he was a bit scared. They obstructed him giving his witness statement, so he wrote a letter, signed letter, in the end and put it in and said: "Take this as

my statement" rather than attend the police station. , they have said she refused anything to do with it and did not sign it.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Okay. So you have had no explanation as to why the prosecution did not happen?

Ms. X:

Yeah, only from pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing. They would not tell me.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

But you have had a document to say that there will be no prosecution?

Ms. X:

They said there was not ... eventually, eventually. I know there is 2 codes of conduct. Like I said, I have learnt everything. I could be working there now. There is the public interest and the evidential. I knew it passed both. I had to push so hard to get a response as to why. All I ever got is: "We have all that is required in your file." I said: "Yeah, but what is that?" It did not pass the evidential test. Now, if I took 2 pages ...

Deputy R.J. Ward :

You were formally told that?

Ms. X:

Yeah, I have it in writing.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

Ms. X:

That is what I wanted. I wanted it in writing.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Yeah.

Ms. X:

I can tell you, and I know it is just my word, but I can tell you if I took 2 things out, even forgetting

 statement, which is a week's worth of what he was doing by a witness, if I took 2 pages of messages out, that is enough for an offence.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay, so ...

Ms. X:

Not 200 pages that they got.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

So the issue basically is ... the crux of the issue is that you do not believe they have seen all of the evidence to make that decision?

Ms. X:

I think it is difficult to say exactly what the issue is. The issue is ... they had enough evidence. I know what she took off me in the beginning, even in 2 weeks, and the statements that were made. They have enough evidence to prosecute. In the law, not what I want, but in the law. They have enough evidence. They refused twice the amount of evidence from me going forward.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Once that decision is made, what do you feel that is your mechanism for either questioning that decision or ... well, yeah, questioning that decision?

Ms. X:

I have done it. I did it through P.S.D. That was an option given to me.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Right, that is what I am trying to fit together. Okay.

Ms. X:

I did it through J.P.C.A. I have been to the Attorney General's Office. The corruption there is unbelievable, and I have it all in email. There is Data Protection breaches going on.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Then Ms. X has gone to me and to others.

Ms. X:

To and ...

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

So I have asked questions in the States. That is where my questions are coming from, both verbal and other, so she is having to go to that route. I might add also, besides ...

Ms. X:

I feel really warm.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

It is, the sun has come out over the last ...

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

... Ms. X has also been in contact with the Lieutenant Governor's Office because the Lieutenant Governor is responsible for the A.G., S.G. (Solicitor General), Bailiff and Deputy Bailiff .

Ms. X:

But not the police.

Deputy M.R. Higgins: But not the police.

Ms. X:

Which is where it started.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

But if they are not doing their job, they are responsible. Now, it has not progressed, that one, yet. We are going through the other stages first with the Chief of Police and we are going through

, so it is still ongoing in that way. But this is 2 years, a person going through a procedure. They should not have to come to me. I should not be doing it. It should be the procedures there already. They should be doing their job.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Well, that is why I am asking about what procedures do you know of and what procedures are clear to you if there is something ... if you get to the position that you are in, in terms of ...

Ms. X:

I only know through what I have had to unfortunately learn.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

What about the ... we will start with the restraining order. It is a ...

Ms. X:

Well, it was supposed to be a restraining order. At the beginning that is what I was promised and that is what I need. Mike sees me hiding in doorways when I am , the first time ever, because I saw you standing outside, that I walked ...

  .

Deputy R.J. Ward :

So, is that ... how do you know whether that is still in place and how that has been acted on?

Ms. X:

I do not know.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Right.

Ms. X:

If I ... do you know what, I thought about ringing up and ... but actually I am at the stage now, and I should not be like this, where I am just letting them roll along, doing this job. They are supposedly still investigating some of the social media stuff that has come through, trying to find his I.P. (internet protocol) address and things like that. I said: "You will not find it." I said: "You need to be one step ahead of a person like this." So I am letting it roll on. I do not want to ask them because I think if I ring up and ask one person I will get one answer. If I ring the next day, I will get a different answer. I do not trust them. I do not know.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

That is why I keep asking the question of you.

Ms. X:

I do not know.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I do not know, it must be driving you mad when every time I say: "Who are they'? Who are them'?"

Ms. X:

Yeah.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

That is the key, I think, that I want to get from you is the real ...

Ms. X: The police.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Yeah, the police, but not a particular department, not someone who has taken your case on that you know of that you can go back to ...

Ms. X:

Well, there is someone new on the case now but, you know, I think initially ... no, I know initially when I made ... this is ... this just proves the point that when I eventually bit my lip and I made that call to the police ... which I did not want to do and I did that because my refuge worker wanted me to, was not forcing me to but wanted me to before she left so she could sit with me through that, which she did. The Monday I made that request and I said: "No, I want someone to come to the refuge. I am not coming to the station. I have to report other stuff." The Tuesday or the Wednesday, and I have that in email from , this person, detective, that was supposedly doing all this in C.I.D. and issued the harassment notice, and I think is one of his friends, called the refuge to say: "Can I send a male officer, please?" Because we had said we want 2 female officers, which should have been easy for them to do. We were not fussed whether it was that day, the next day, the week after.   rang the refuge, and unfortunately the person that answered the phone at the refuge did not know of his involvement in a bad way from last time, whereas my key worker did, and she said: "We will be guided by Ms. X. We usually prefer women here, but we will be guided by Ms. X. If she wants females, we are asking for females." Obviously, for the situation. He should have had nothing whatsoever to do with this. He was involved a year ago, but he wanted involvement in this because I think he was frightened of what I was going to bring up. I got given criteria of what I could put on my statement this time. Rather than what had happened, I got given criteria, but it was quite good because that criteria was anything that has not been investigated before. What they did not want me to bring up is what they put into the closed case. That stuff had not been investigated, so I wrote down about and things like this in this statement. They contacted only because I told them to. They picked on 4 things out of a 48-point statement.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Okay. So there is now an open case again?

Ms. X:

It is open but they are not doing anything. You know, I am not interested ...

Deputy R.J. Ward :

But you have contacted them and made another formal ...?

Ms. X:

Yeah, yeah, I did that probably ... I did it with and I have ... it has been so traumatic even going through that. I cannot be bothered because they are coming back minimising everything, and I said: "Look, you do what you want. I am not going to fight anymore. You have it there, you have told me that is a breach of the harassment" and now they are saying: "It was over a year ago." I do not know what that means.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

Ms. X:

If it is a breach of harassment, he should be brought in for the offence. If the harassment notice is no longer valid, then he should be issued with another one, but they are doing nothing. This is because he has been involved again ringing the refuge. That gave away the story. So whatever is on the record at S.O.J.P. (States of Jersey Police) is absolutely a lie because this new person dealing with my case now came ... went to and said ... she sent me the email back. She said: "It was not signed. Your statement was not signed last year" and went back to her and said: "Is that what is on your record?" She said: "I did sign that statement. I had to push for it. I was obstructed from doing it but I did it in January last year, and you are telling me on your records it says it is not signed?" I have a copy of that witness statement. I have not read it. I do not need to. I know what happened, but I have a copy  has a copy, you have a copy, everyone has a copy of that statement that the Attorney General said was never there.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Can I just ... sorry, can I ask a question? I want to make sure we do not miss something, that is why I want to come in.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Yes, go on.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

No, I am just saying that we have heard about the police, we have heard about J.P.C.A., we have heard about the Law Officers' Department. Give your experience of the Data Protection Office up until just recently.

Ms. X:

This is why I will end up at the Privy Council or going ... not for my personal case but for ... you know, I think this is my personal case and it will help you to say: "I knew nothing and I have had to find out"

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Yeah, it has been ... I mean ...

Ms. X:

It should not happen.

Deputy R.J. Ward : No.

Ms. X:

If I have a grievance, I should be able to take it somewhere that will listen, and not just listen, but view what I have. Because I know that anybody viewing what I have, anybody else, would be: "Oh, my god."

Deputy R.J. Ward :

What is involvement? You went to the complaints ...

Ms. X:

Yeah, went to the complaints department ...

Deputy R.J. Ward : How do you view that?

Ms. X:

This has to remain confidential, I think,  

     ...

Deputy R.J. Ward :

But what I am interested in is how you ... what you mean by the complaints department.

Deputy M.R. Higgins: The Complaints Board.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

The Complaints Board, okay. Where did you understand that ... I suppose what I am getting is when you ...

Ms. X:

How did I find out about them?

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Yeah, and if you have a complaint to make, how do you go through the process of finding out about it? Where did the Complaints Board come from?

Ms. X:

I Google a lot because I do not trust people to tell me the right thing, but I think ...

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

But it is also possible I think I also mentioned the Complaints Board at one point.

Ms. X:

I have seen lawyers or the Citizens Advice free sessions. It could well have been through one of them.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Okay, that is interesting. You see why I asked the question? Because it ...

Ms. X:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it was through my own doing that I found out everything.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I am trying to navigate my way through your ... what you have been through in terms of ...

Ms. X:

The maze, yeah.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Yeah, but is my ...

Ms. X:

That would ... I am pretty sure because  from them, and on the back ... I am sure it was one of the lawyers, and I have had about 5 meetings. I have exhausted my free hours at Citizens Advice. I am sure it was one of them that gave me the States Complaints Board, and though they were good, they came back and they said: "Unfortunately, we do not deal with the police." So guess what, I went to the Comptroller and Auditor General and she does not deal with police either. It is not in her remit at the moment. In the future she will look at it. Who are they accountable to is my question.

Deputy R.J. Ward : The police?

Ms. X:

Yeah. Nobody. Law Officers ... the Lieutenant Governor, has said to me he is really good, and I know  know each other as well. He said: "Ms. X, you have some great people on board." He said: "We will deal with the Law Officers' Department. When Data Protection finish with these breaches and everything, we will deal with the Law Officers' Department. You can put in a formal complaint about them," which I will be doing because they should not be able to get away with it. They did not need to do this to me.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Just again, that complaint would be with the Complaints Board that you would put it into?

Ms. X:

No, Law Officers will be directly to ... oh, Lieutenant Governor. The Law Officers, the complaint I will put in will be direct to the Lieutenant Governor,   , as a formal complaint, yeah, in writing. But I am leaving that at the moment because I just ... all I want is them to do their job and stop this man and hold him accountable, and also ... I do not know if I even want an apology now because I know it will not be a genuine apology, so I am not interested. I think they should be sacked for what they have done, to be honest, but they are accountable to nobody.

Deputy R.J. Ward : So we have had ...

Ms. X:

Data Protection.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Yeah, please. This is another one.

Ms. X:

I know we are going over ... oh, gosh, we are, yeah.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

That clock is an hour slow, by the way, I have to say.

Ms. X:

I can see that, yeah. No, I know I have not been here half an hour.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

You cannot contact the other members ...

Ms. X:

I am at the end now, so Data Protection is the end.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

No, that is okay. No, I just want to make sure that we are all ...

Ms. X:

So I have now been fobbed off and lied to by so many different departments I have zero trust in anyone. By default really I was speaking to Data Protection,  , with regard to that I told you about, and by default I phoned the J.O.I.C. office one day. I spoke to somebody there who said it is okay, he has heard a little bit about this, you know, come in. There was him and a lady sat there and I think he was going to put the lady on to my case, called

. As soon as he heard it was about the police or started with the police, he said: "I will take on

that case" and I thought brilliant, because he is the senior case worker. I thought great.

Deputy R.J. Ward : So that was ...?

Deputy M.R. Higgins: This is .

Ms. X:

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Ms. X: Yeah.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

[12:00]

Ms. X:

So I put my trust in him. I cried in front of him. I passed him information, confidential stuff. He was the one with me when we opened the envelope, the destroyed file, which he had had copies of the emails dropped out. Then he told me what to do. We had meetings. Never just with him there, we had about 10 different meetings with  sat in some. It was always with someone again, which I have made sure of. Courses of action, breaches identified on highly sensitive data, whether it be reprocessing, whether it be storing, whether it be ... whatever, whatever. There was about 4 or 5 definites. Then nothing seemed to be happening so I said: "Look, my data is still floating around there, still now could be read by a newspaper, by anyone. I do not know where it has been, who has photocopied it, et cetera." So I contacted him again and again, was not hearing anything back. Went to . They were liaising. They were good, was good. Then I realised was doing nothing that he had promised me and so I asked for his boss's detail, and I got that through . She said: "Ms. X, I will speak to ." came back to me and said ... understood that I was ... he had said things, was not doing anything, let us put a fresh pair of eyes on it. So now I am with someone new and I am going over the last 7 months of what happened all over again, which is not pleasant and it is difficult. I do not necessarily trust that because this person is under so, you know, I am going along with the process at the moment because I have the evidence, but at the same time I am saying, you know, well, who is dictating this? I have not put in a formal complaint about , I just want the job done. So I am just having to start all over again. Then   are at every meeting, kept electronic notes about plans of action that were said that could not be done and then we will write to J.P.C.A., ask for the missing stuff and ask for unredacted stuff to see whether my questions could be answered. Because there was nothing in there about them receiving files from the States of Jersey Police. So, a long story short, I am still waiting, in fact I was emailing again this morning.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

The other thing is that both    

Ms. X:

  suddenly left with one day's notice.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Both very good, by the way, I am impressed with them. They were not part of the Data Protection Office, which we did not know at the time.

Ms. X:

But we never knew that, we knew nothing about that.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

We thought they were Data Protection and found out that and still not sure where

Ms. X:

They were contracted by the Government for that position and the new one is called  , I have forgotten  surname but I cannot remember. The new Data Protection Officer is  someone now, who have had to apply for a S.A.R. to get the information that    took at the meetings over the last 7 months. I did, before they left the job they gave me one day's notice that they were leaving on the Friday. I was told on the Thursday, I said: "Please, I am sorry to hear that, can I have my information from you?" In writing they said: "Yes, of course you can." Then they have gone and I have had to do a S.A.R., which is another month plus. How long can they drag this out? I do not know.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

As a result of all this anyway, I wrote to  and said: "Ms. X has no confidence in the officers who have been dealing with the case." I also said that I have no confidence in   , the Deputy Director, who is   by now. I know from previous experience of dealing with cases, when he was with   we never got any information from the police on subject access requests, so total delay and everything else. One of the reasons why I have been so angry all these years with him. As a result of that, anyway he has agreed to meet and we will have a meeting when he comes back. I think I have got confidence in him because he has been dealing with something else.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

But it all seems to be whether we have confidence in individual personalities. There is not a process

Ms. X:

You should have confidence in the company that the establishment, the public authority that we all pay for. We should have confidence

Deputy R.J. Ward :

But there is no process that you can pin down to say: "We know this is what has happened, so therefore it does not matter who does it, this will happen." Have you identified any do you see what I mean? There are lots of individuals that you are relying on.

Ms. X: Certainly, yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward : But it should be

Ms. X:

Who do I go to? Yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

a process. If I go to I cannot think of an example that is not loaded with that is not simplistic. I cannot think of an example now, if I go to my doctors I will see any doctor and I know there is a standard there, which means that they should be giving me the same level of treatment, be able to look at my files and, therefore, submit the right medicine; that is a good analogy, that is not bad at all.

Ms. X:

Not bad, on the spot.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

On the spot, yes. But there is not a process there that you can identify it or can you identify that you will be clear to say: "I know I can go and do this with this procedure and I will have an outcome."? Is there anything at all that you can think of that you could identify as somebody involved with a case, with a worry? You see why I am asking the question because that is what we are trying to look for.

Ms. X:

Yeah. With what I have gone through with putting my trust, being asked to put my trust in people and trying again and again and again to do this with each person that sounds so great that they are going to do the job.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

You have had to repeat your story again and again and again and again.

Ms. X:

For 2 years.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Okay. How many times do you think you have told it? I ask this for a very specific reason and I think you would know why because of something that was identified that should not be

Ms. X:

Countless, countless times.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Countless times, okay.

Ms. X: Countless times.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

It honestly was not a flippant question, there was a reason behind that question and I have been through all of them.

Ms. X:

No, no, no, and it is difficult to tell because it takes me back.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Yes, well I recognise that. Thank you for doing that today.

Ms. X:

No, that is okay. There is no one that I can go to and having done this and Data Protection are brilliant, they are going to help me: "Hand on heart, Ms. X, I used to be   but what is said in this room stays in this room." I am sorry but it is bollocks, it is a lie. He has done nothing that

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Do you think that if at one stage in your case they would have come back to you and said: "They are not prosecuting for these very and there are a few pages of very specific reasons, i.e. this would not work in court for this reason, this would not work in court for that reason, the evidence for that is not strong enough for that reason."? You may not have liked it

Ms. X:

Yes, but I accept it, absolutely, absolutely.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

But you would know where you are. Have you ever had anything like that at all, either in terms of your case

Ms. X: No.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

in terms of the the reason I have sat and wrote it down, now I have got 7 pages and I have got to go back through my dodgy handwriting, the Professional Standards Department, have you had anything like that from them as to what they are investigating and what their outcomes were and why they

Ms. X:

I have had nothing in writing. I had a verbal few words of what they have missed and they are so very sorry.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay, and the J.P.C.A.?

Ms. X:

Absolutely nothing.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Absolutely nothing, okay. The A.G.?

Ms. X:

A bunch of lies, I am afraid. Sorry, but that is what it was, I can prove it.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

No, that is okay, you can talk freely and Data Protection is obviously ongoing and you have told us clearly you are not

Ms. X:

It is ongoing but, yes, again what I was promised 7 months ago and I am thinking, great, I will deal with L.O.D. (Law Officers' Department) and J.P.C.A. now and then I can trawl over all the S.A.R.s from the police after. I am still not I have not been able to do the police because it is a boxful.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

Ms. X:

I have not been able to do that because 7 months on all the things I was promised would be done, with the breaches of my information, nothing has been done. The girl that is working on it at the moment, she is doing it but I think that is because has got in touch with her and said: "Move this forward."

Deputy R.J. Ward :

What I will say to you is this has been very constructive for us because

Ms. X: Good, yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I know you were concerned in terms of going through the story and so on but I think the fact that we have managed to talk about your direct experience with all the different organisations and processes that should be in place is very useful to this review panel. I think we would agree that that is the case. I want to say that, before you go, that has been something very useful for this panel today and I think it is important we say that to you.

Ms. X: Yeah.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Because having told your story so many times and to so many different groups, it must have been an absolute nightmare and I

Ms. X:

But it will not end, I will not stop. I have got to the stage where I have woken up at night and thinking: "Ms. X, you can walk away from all this, leave it alone and you can have a normal life." But my personality, I blame my dad for that. I cannot do that because I know the truth.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Yes, the reason I wanted to say that is because when I spoke to you and I said: "These are the criteria, these are what we are looking at, we cannot "

Ms. X:

It is not personal, I know, yes, yes, yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

But I am wanting to reassure you that it is very useful that we have had a submission and I think that is important for us to say that to you directly because I think we need to value what we are doing and I think perhaps

Ms. X:

Yes, yes, you should help because it has happened.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I will not say perhaps if that has happened beforehand we would not be where we are but

Ms. X:

Given time I can give you you have got my all you have got is me saying this and them saying that. I can give you evidence for everything I have said but, bear with me, it will take time because I am dealing with other things at the moment but I can do that.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I might say that I have a lot of the evidence as well.

Ms. X:

You have a lot.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

But I think just in terms of the processes this has been really very important. Is there anything that anyone wants to raise before and I know you have sat here for a long time; it must be exhausting.

Ms. X:

It is all right, it saves me from doing the files for Thursday, gets me away from that.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I know Trevor is on line there, if there is anything, I do not know if he can notify with a nod or a wink or something in the chat that goes with the is there anything that you want to

Deputy K.G. Pamplin of St. Saviour : I could say a lot of things.

Ms. X:

Yes, go ahead.

Deputy K.G. Pamplin:

But, I guess, it is not a surprise for me to say, what emotional support are you getting? I know the refuge really well, I know the scene there, so I know what they are doing but

Ms. X:

Yes, but not so much anymore because they are absolutely aghast with this and their comments that will come in the S.A.R.s will tell you what they think of the way this has been dealt with. Obviously it is in their domain because they deal with this kind of thing and they cannot believe the way I have been treated. But my key worker there has left now and to me it is just not the same. I have got another key worker but she was not with me through all this, so I have not got the support.

Deputy K.G. Pamplin:

Right, okay. In terms of emotional support okay.

Ms. X:

Knowing something is happening, for example, the Chief of Police knowing that ...

Deputy M.R. Higgins: There is one thing that

Ms. X:

Not that I hold out that much hope because they have let down so much before but let us see.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

What I will say is she knows that I am going to be there. I have been with other cases for 12 years before I got a criminal investigation with something and I will be on this one. But it should not be

Ms. X:

Yes, I should not be here, exactly. I think that is what it boils down to, I should not be here.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

That is exactly why we are sat here, is it not?

Deputy M.R. Higgins: Pardon?

Deputy R.J. Ward :

This is why we are sat here trying to

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

This is why I was so insistent on all this.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

On having a clear mechanism.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Trevor, have you got anything to say?

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I have just asked him. His computer will burst into life, we think.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I will just ask him then, Trevor, have you got anything to say?

Deputy R.J. Ward :

You are on mute, Trevor. This is the problem with the technology.

Ms. X:

I can see him now, yes, he was covered up but

Deputy T. Pointon of St. John :

I am fine, yes, Mike. I do not think I can think of anything to say, apart from I am listening with interest. I have not been able to hear the questions that Rob and Mike have been asking.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I forgot to put my mic on.

The Deputy of St. John :

But your story is compelling and I think it is in a way to acknowledge that we will work with your story in relation to the report that we mentioned.

Ms. X:

Thank you, yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Yes.

Ms. X:

Yes, it is important.

The Deputy of St. John : All right, an offer

Ms. X:

Thank you. Yes, yes, it is difficult but I think it is an example sorry.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Yes, Ms. X, you will not be mentioned obviously but they would be as an example of other evidence all showing the failings

The Deputy of St. John :

Are you speaking to me, Mike, or

Deputy R.J. Ward : No.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

No, Trevor. I was just saying how she will not be named individually in the report because the report is looking to systems but that it will be taken on board with all the other evidence we will be gathering. But it should assist others anyway and I will be helping you personally

Ms. X:

Yes, thank you, yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I will just put my mic up, you should be able to hear me now, Trevor, I am getting feedback horrendously and you are going to get a delay. But I reiterate what we said there in terms of all the evidence that we are getting that we will use in the report and it has been very valuable.

Ms. X: Yes, yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I am going to switch this mic off because it does not work, so it just does not

Ms. X:

No, I think the last things I want to sort of just end with is I spoke to   who has had all this trouble.

Deputy M.R. Higgins: Yes.

Ms. X:

Yes, I have passed your regards on, yes. I spoke to him just at the weekend, he called me.

The corruption is unbelievable. Two things, one with Radio Jersey with that I want to mention and this is a complete example of a systems failure. The bit about comes in there, Radio Jersey contacted me and wanted the story. I said: "At the moment I have got ongoing press engagements, so I do not want to compromise it." I said: "But I will go public, I have no issues now, I have got nothing to lose anymore." When I first spoke to her she said: "Tell me your story." I gave her just a little bit about the police to start with and she said: "I have had a similar domestic abuse, not nearly as bad as yours, not gone on for as long." But she said: "I know someone in the police."

[12:15]

She said: "I went with mine, it was dealt with within a week and they said to me your family will get you sorted." She said: "As a journalist, I could not believe they were saying that to me." She said: "I was very grateful they sorted it so quickly." She said: "But you faced it." I have done nothing wrong with them, I have not been in trouble with them in the past or anything. He has got links with them. If I was a journalist, would I have been treated differently? Probably. Other people's stories are going to be different to mine but there will be other people in my position and the bigger picture here, how are they leaving people like me?

Deputy R.J. Ward :

That is why I mentioned individuals, sorry, I was trying to turn it up a bit for Trevor there. I mentioned individuals that you were relying upon so much, rather than, as you said, systems that should be working regardless and should be I do not know if the word is neutral or I think the work is independent basically. Okay. Thank you for taking the time to come and talk to us and

Ms. X:

That is okay. I would like it to be changed in the future, that is important to me but I want my case dealt with and I want this to stop. I want a life.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Yes. We go through a process and I think that is what gives it validity in Scrutiny.

Ms. X: Yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

That we will listen, we will look at as much as we can and we will make recommendations on process and we can do that if we get it right without those being questioned and that is what we want to do.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

It is not only recommendations, it is also we make findings based on the evidence and that could be as

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Yes, exactly. Yes, findings and recommendations are really important because that is the actions that we take but, yes, the findings and recommendations. Yes, certainly, you are right.

Ms. X:

But you have got a lot of the evidence, not so much the earlier stuff which I have got but you have got lots of the latest stuff that

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I have attended many of the meetings, yes.

Ms. X: Yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Yes. Can I say this report will take some time? It does not mean that we have forgotten about given your circumstance, I think it is really important that we say to you it will take time and we would not publish until probably we have got 3 months of evidence-gathering coming up, I think, take time to write and then fact check and be really careful. It is not going to be until November at the earliest, I think.

Ms. X:

Yes, yes, I think it is

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Do not think we have forgotten about it.

Ms. X:

No, no, you did say time to

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I think I will say that to everybody we speak to, it is really important.

Ms. X: Yes, yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Even the fact that you have said about time and that is how I started asking you about timescales, that has informed us from the process we go through, so it is really, really useful.

Ms. X:

But you see really all this could have been dealt with within 2 weeks, over and done with in August of 2018 and yet I am still pushing, not for what I want but what I need and what the law says 2 years later and probably another 2 years, God forbid but I will not stop because I have the evidence. I just need someone who is going to look at it. Where would I go? Outside the Island. I have told to get a criminal lawyer. It would be very traumatising to go over this in depth and in detail again from the beginning with a criminal lawyer; I do not think I can do that.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Why should you have to employ a criminal lawyer?

Ms. X:

Exactly, financially I have  . I am on my own supporting them. I have had to be off work because of this situation.

Deputy R.J. Ward : That is why we

Ms. X:

Financially and emotionally I could not employ a lawyer. I could not get any help that way, so where is my help?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Just a question, did you get any   ?

Ms. X: From

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

You mentioned he  , did you ever get any back from him?

Ms. X:

Yes, because I had to take that to court myself and that was during that period. I have not even mentioned that because they did nothing. They turned round and said: "  

 ." It is not the point what he is doing with it, it is the point how he got it from me, which I have got in evidence. I had to employ a lawyer for that. Luckily I have got a lawyer who is a who helped me first but when it came to litigation he would not get involved and, of course, he is playing the game the whole time and not giving it back. I ended up with a lawyer for that, directed me to the court and in that court document was a number of those messages that I had got, which was enough for the Bailiff to immediately grant a    , just 5 messages of what we are talking about in that script

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

It went to the Royal Court then, was it the Royal

Ms. X:

No, he was threatened with the Royal Court. I said: "I am not playing his games anymore, I am not meeting him, I am not doing this, I am not doing that." I said: "Just get my money back or he goes to court." I said: "I will stand up in court and tell them." At that point he did pay up because he knows that when I say I will go to court, I will go court. But that cost me it was going to be  but, luckily, he had given me   in our relationship, so I sold that but I checked with the police first it was not stolen here. I believe it to be stolen, I am sorry, but this is a real character, I tell you this is the ultimate con man, the ultimate.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Yes, very, very difficult.

Ms. X:

. The police could do something about this and protect me to protect

the future, it will happen again but they choose to protect him.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I will say thank you for giving your evidence today, which will contribute towards what we can do, yes. We will do what we can, which is a very delicate look at what is going on.

Ms. X:

It will not be easy because as soon as you ask them what they are doing they will give you it by the book. But they do not do it by book and they do not do it by the law.

Ms. X: Yes, sorry.

Ms. X:

What I have taken through being literally battered for 2 years, what I have taken is radical acceptance. I can walk away from this at any point and that helps me but I know I will not; that is the stubborn side of me, I will not do it because I know the truth and I know I have got it in evidence. I just need it seen, heard, whatever and I need the job done. I do feel people should be accountable for putting people in this position.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I will just finish by saying that I think what you have said today is very relevant to what we are doing and very constructive for what we are doing and it gives us a great deal to work with, along with other people as well.

Ms. X: Good.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

That is what we needed and unless people come forward and do what you are doing, we will not have as strong a base of evidence to do anything, so that is very much valued.

Ms. X:

Thank you. I think that is what said as well, she said: "People like that should not stay silent." How can you have these kind of people out there are usually men, I am sorry but usually men, in this controlling kind of behaviour that can I never thought anyone could do this to me, if they do it to me they can do it to anyone. There will be a lot of weaker people that are not still standing now.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

We value what you have said.

Ms. X:

Good, good, okay.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I will just finish by saying that. All right. Thank you very much.

The Deputy of St. John :

By way of reassurance, we are told that the law officers are working to pass a new law to be able to

. I have been waiting for that to come

through now for over 6 months and we have seen nothing from the Minister for Home Affairs about this. If nothing comes along in the next few weeks I will be putting a proposition through the States outlining that the idea that the States should adopt such a law and that the law officers should produce the law in a timely manner. I have not got timings on that but I am very keen to see this law in place. If you want to look at the sort of law that I am considering, look up domestic abuse, controlling and coercive behaviour law in Scotland, which is what I would be proposing that we introduce here.

Ms. X:

I think that is a really good idea. I know that law off by heart, as I know the stalking one, which are more relevant in the U.K. but, unfortunately, not in Jersey. They all come under the umbrella of harassment.

The Deputy of St. John : Yes.

Ms. X:

I think that is absolutely great, I really do and I think we need that and we are way behind there. But at the same time the evidence I have gives the offences that are needed to stop this person if they are listened to. However they split it, harassment, coercive control, it does not really matter; it is an offence. If you faced it you get help and if you do not you are left alone. That is really what it boils down to and I hope you do not have to wait too much longer because I think it is great, yes. Thank you.

Deputy R.J. Ward : Okay.

The Deputy of St. John : Okay, thank you.

Deputy M.R. Higgins: Yes, thank you, Ms. X.

Ms. X:

No problem, thank you very much. I can take that away, can I not?

Deputy R.J. Ward : Yes.

Deputy K.G. Pamplin: Yes, yes.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

I hope you take on board the value that we see in your evidence and that is really important for us because you have gathered that we are trying to gather as much as we can here and we

Ms. X:

It should not be allowed to happen and we do not expect this here. I am Jersey born, my parents were taxpayers for decades as well, I did not ever think I would see this side of the law or

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Most people do not until it happens to them.

Ms. X:

Until it happens, yes, there is a whole load of people that are really not quite as far up the ladder as me but that have gone through this and they have just gone silent and said: "I have to accept it". You should not have to accept this. Good luck.

Deputy M.R. Higgins: All right, thanks.

Deputy R.J. Ward :

Okay, thank you very much, again, thank you.

Ms. X: Thank you.

[12:28] Summary  

The witness requested that the following summary of the points raised in the transcript were included here for clarity – please note these are the witness's own words:

1. Severely lacking a clear process to follow
2. Despite claims of being completely independent bodies for police complaints system the Professional standards dept of States of Jersey Police Force and the Jersey Police Complaints Authority, JPCA are absolutely not independent and in my case were told what to do with my complaint directly by the States of Jersey police whom I was complaining about! (I have proof of this fact)
3. There is a complete failure in the system for justice and for victims to have a voice.
4. Victims are denied their right to justice if they cannot afford expensive legal representation.
5. Corruption, bullying, and misconduct is rife in our police force and in our government justice system yet there is NO accountability and nowhere to take evidence of this.

6. The Home Affairs minister who has States of Jersey Police Force complaints in his remit has been notified of serious allegations and evidence available to back this up, yet he will not commit to a meeting of transparency to address this.
7. Our police and justice system runs on bias and personal preference rather than on laws, correct policy and procedure and obligations to duty.
8. Redress is non-existent, and accountability goes unchallenged and this needs URGENT rectification to ensure the best interests of victims and the Jersey public as a whole.