States Meeting Transcript - 18th February 2014

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT

TUESDAY, 18th FEBRUARY 2014

COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER ......................................9

1. Welcome to His Excellency The Lieutenant Governor...................................9 The Bailiff :....................................................................................9
2. "Fly a Flag for Commonwealth Day"....................................................9 The Bailiff :....................................................................................9

APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS..........................9

2. Nomination for a member of the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel........9

2.1 Connétable S.W. Pallett of St. Brelade:..................................................9

QUESTIONS......................................................................................9

3. Written Questions........................................................................9

1. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY THE AVAILABILITY OF A WEB-BASED INCOME SUPPORT CALCULATOR:........................................................................9
2. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE INTERIM POPULATION POLICY:..............................10
3. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING ANOMALIES IN THE INTERIM POPULATION POLICY: ..........11
4. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING AN ASSESSMENT OF THE USE OF ZERO-HOURS CONTRACTS:13
5. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE POTENTIAL FOR THJE INTRODUCTION OF A LIVING WAGE IN JERSEY:....................................................................14
6. DEPUTY J.A.N. LE FONDRE OF ST. LAWRENCE OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE ANNUAL REPORT OF THE FISCAL POLICY PANEL: ............................................................15
7. DEPUTY J.A.N. LE FONDRÉ OF ST. LAWRENCE OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING AN UPDATE OF SUMMARY TABLE A IN THE MEDIUM TERM FINANCIAL PLAN:............................19
8. DEPUTY J.A.N. LE FONDRÉ OF ST. LAWRENCE OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES FREGARDING AN UPDATE ON THE GENERAL REVENUE INCOME:..................................................................20

9. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE EDUCATION AND HOME AFFAIRS SCRUTINY PANEL REGARDING THE PANEL'S ANTICIPATED WORK PROGRAMME:..................................21
10. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE EDUCATION AND HOME AFFAIRS SCRUTINY PANEL REGARDING THE CURRENT DRUGS POLICY OF THE HOME AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT:..........22
11. DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE MINISTER FOR PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT REGARDING THE CONTAMINATION OF GROUNDWATER BY THE PROCESS KNOWN AS FRACKING':.................23
12. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING C.I.C.R.A. AND JERSEY TELECOMS: 24
13. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING COMPANIES CONNECTING TO THE J.T. NETWORK: .................................................................25
14. DEPUTY J.H. YOUNG OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT REGARDING ENFORCEMENT MATTERS: ...............26

16. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF H.M. ATTORNEY GENERAL REGARDING THE CLARIFICATION OF THE LAW OF DEFAMATION:..........27
17. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF H.M. ATTORNEY GENERAL REGARDING THE RULES OF COURT IN RESPECT OF THE TREATMENT OF WITNESSES:..........................................................................28
18. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING AN INCIDENT IN SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL PARK IN MAY 2011:............................................................................30
19. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING CERTIFICATES FOR SERVICE FOR STATES OF JERSEY POLICE OFFICERS: ..................................................................30

4. Oral Questions...........................................................................31

1. Deputy J.H. Young of St. Brelade of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the use of public resources to prosecute local fishermen under the Shipping (Fishing Vessels – Safety Training) (Jersey) Order 2004:........................................31 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):.........................31

1. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................32
2. Deputy S.G. Luce of St. Martin : ........................................................32
3. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier:.....................................................32
4. Connétable P.J. Rondel ofSt. John: ....................................................33
5. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................33
6. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................34

2. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding respite services for families and young adults with complex needs:.....................34 Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity (The Minister for Health and Social Services):.................34

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................34
2. Deputy J.A. Hilton ofSt.Helier:........................................................35
3. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................35

4. Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen:..........................................................35
5. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................36

6. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................36
7. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................36

3. The Connétable of St. John of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the current pay and conditions of Condor Ferries' crew and the recent industrial action taken by staff: ................................................................................37 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):.........................37

1. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................37
2. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier:...............................................38
3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour:...............................................38
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................38
5. Senator L.J. Farnham :..................................................................38
6. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................39
7. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................39
8. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................39

4. Deputy M.R. Higgins of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the legal basis for the Department's patient travel policy: ........................................40 The Deputy of Trinity (The Minister for Health and Social Services):........................40

1. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................40
2. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier:....................................................40
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................41
4. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................41
5. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................42
6. Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. Saviour:....................................................42
7. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................42

5. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement of the Minister for Transport and Technical Services regarding the environmental practices of the scrap metal facility at Bellozanne: .........................................................................................43 Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services): .....43

1. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................43
2. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................43
3. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................44

6. Deputy R.J. Rondel of St. Helier of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding proposed developments for social/affordable homes for purchase:......................44 Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence (Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources - rapporteur):.............................................................................44

1. Deputy R.J. Rondel:....................................................................45
2. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................45
3. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................45
4. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................46

5. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................46
6. Deputy R.J. Rondel:....................................................................46
   7. The Connétable of St. Helier of the Minister for Economic Development regarding fast ferry services between St. Helier and St. Malo:.........................................47 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):.........................47

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................47
2. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................47
3. Deputy S. Pinel of St. Clement : ........................................................48
4. Deputy S. Pinel:........................................................................48

5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................48
6. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................49
7. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................50
   8. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of the Minister for Housing regarding the provision of flooring in States properties: ....................................................................50 Deputy A.K.F. Green of St. Helier (The Minister for Housing):..............................50

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................50
2. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :........................................................50
3. Deputy T.A. Vallois: ...................................................................51
4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................51
5. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................51
6. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................52
7. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................52
8. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................52
   9. Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding an investigation into threatening letters sent to a number of individuals linked to the case involving the former Deputies Pitman: .......................................................................52 Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): .................................53

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................53
2. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................53
3. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................53
4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................53

10. Deputy J.H. Young of the Attorney General regarding the circumstances under which suspected infractions should or should not be referred for prosecution:.................54 Mr. T.J. Le Cocq Q.C., H.M. Attorney General: ..............................................54

1. Deputy J.H. Young: .................................................................54
2. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................54
3. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................55
4. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................55
5. Deputy J.H. Young: .................................................................55

11. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the J.T. Gigabit project:.........................................................................56 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):............................56

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................56
2. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................56
3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................57

12. Deputy M.R. Higgins of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the Department's recruitment and selection process:........................................57 The Deputy of Trinity (The Minister for Health and Social Services):........................57

1. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................57
2. Deputy J.H. Young: .................................................................58
3. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................58
4. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................58

13. The Connétable of St. John of the Minister for Economic Development regarding pre- payment protection for travellers contained within the Service Level Agreement between the States of Jersey and Condor:........................................................59 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):.........................59

1. The Connétable of St. John : .........................................................59

2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................59
3. The Connétable of St. John : .........................................................60
4. The Connétable of St. John : .........................................................60

14. Urgent oral question ....................................................................61 Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding allegations that a former prison employee had an inappropriate relationship with a prisoner at H.M.P. La Moye: .......61 Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): .................................61

1. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................61
2. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................62
3. Connétable M.J. Paddock of St. Ouen : ..............................................62
4. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................62

5. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for Health and Social Services 62

1. The Connétable of St. Mary:............................................................62 The Deputy of Trinity (The Minister for Health and Social Services):........................62

1. The Connétable of St. Mary:............................................................63
   2. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................63

5.2.1 Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................63

3. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................63

5.3.1 Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................64

4. Deputy S. Pinel:........................................................................64

5.4.1 Deputy S. Pinel:........................................................................64

5. The Connétable of St. Ouen:............................................................64
6. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:.......................................................64
7. Deputy T.A. Vallois: ...................................................................64

5.7.1 Deputy T.A. Vallois: ...................................................................65

8. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................65

5.8.1 Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................65

9. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................65

5.9.1 Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................66

10. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................66

5.10.1 Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................66

6. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Chief Minister............................66

1. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:.......................................................67 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................67

1. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:.......................................................67
   2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................67

6.2.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................67

3. Deputy S. Pinel:........................................................................67
4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................68

6.4.1 Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................68

5. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................68

6.5.1 Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................69

6. Deputy T.A. Vallois: ...................................................................69
7. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................69

6.7.1 Deputy M.R. Higgins:..................................................................70

8. Senator L.J. Farnham :..................................................................70

9. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................71

6.9.1 Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................71

10. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................71

STATEMENTS ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY........................72

7. The Minister for Treasury and Resources - statement regarding the proposed development of the Esplanade Quarter.................................................72

7.1 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):......................72

1. Deputy R.G. Bryans of St. Helier:......................................................73
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................74
3. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................74
4. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................74
5. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................75

6. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................75
7. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................75
8. Deputy J. H. Young:....................................................................76
   9. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................76

8. The Chairman of the Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel - statement regarding the review of P.164/2013 (Draft European Union Legislation (Implementation) (Jersey) Law 201-)................................................................................77

8.1 Senator S.C. Ferguson (Chairman, Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel):................77

PUBLIC BUSINESS.............................................................................77

9. Draft Aquatic Resources (Jersey) Law 201- (P.114/2013)..............................77

1. The Deputy of Grouville (Assistant Minister for Economic Affairs - rapporteur):......77

1. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................79

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED..................................................81 LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT................................................................81

2. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................81
3. Connétable J.E. Le Maistre of Grouville :...............................................81
4. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................82
5. Deputy R.C. Duhamel of St. Saviour:..................................................83
6. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................83
7. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................84 The Connétable of St. John:..................................................................85 The Attorney General:........................................................................85
8. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................85

9. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:................................................................86
10. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:....................................................87
11. The Connétable of St. Brelade:......................................................87
12. The Deputy of Grouville : ............................................................88

2. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................90

9.2.1 Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................91 The Deputy of Grouville :.....................................................................91 The Attorney General:........................................................................91

3. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................91

1. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................92
2. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................92

4. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................92

9.4.1 The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................93

10. Draft Proceeds of Crime and Terrorism (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Jersey) Law 201- (P.163/2013)..............................................................................94

1. Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):................................................94

1. Deputy J.H. Young: .................................................................95
2. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................96
3. The Deputy ofSt. Martin: ...........................................................96
4. Senator I.J. Gorst : ...................................................................96

2. Senator I.J. Gorst :......................................................................97

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................97
2. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains: ............................................................97
3. Senator I.J. Gorst : ...................................................................98

3. Senator I.J. Gorst :......................................................................98
4. Senator I.J. Gorst :......................................................................99
5. Senator I.J. Gorst :......................................................................99

1. Deputy J.H. Young: .................................................................99
2. Senator I.J. Gorst : ...................................................................99 The AttorneyGeneral:........................................................................99

6. Senator I.J. Gorst :.....................................................................100

11. Draft Income Support (Amendment No. 10) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.1/2014)..101

1. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley (The Minister for Social Security): ......................101

1. Deputy A.K.F. Green:..............................................................103
2. Deputy T.A. Vallois:...............................................................105
3. Deputy M. Tadier :..................................................................106
4. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:...................................................108
5. Deputy G.P. Southern : .............................................................109
6. Senator A. Breckon:................................................................111
7. The Deputy of St. Ouen:............................................................112
8. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:.......................................................113

2. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:..........................................................116
3. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:..........................................................116

1. Deputy G.P. Southern : .............................................................118
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:..........................................................118
3. Deputy M. Tadier :..................................................................118
4. Deputy A.K.F. Green:..............................................................119
5. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:.......................................................119

4. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:..........................................................121

1. The Deputy of St. Ouen:............................................................121
2. Deputy J.H. Young: ................................................................121
3. Deputy M. Tadier :..................................................................122
4. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:.......................................................122

12. Jersey Employment Tribunal: appointment of members (P.8/2014).................124

12.1 Senator F. du H. Le Gresley (The Minister for Social Security): ......................124

ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS ..................124

13. Deputy M. Tadier (Vice-Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee):..........125

13.1 Deputy J.H. Young:...................................................................125

ADJOURNMENT..............................................................................125

The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer.

[9:30]

COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER

1. Welcome to His Excellency The Lieutenant Governor

The Bailiff :

May I, on Members' behalf, extend a welcome to His Excellency to be here today. [Approbation]

2. "Fly a Flag for Commonwealth Day"

The Bailiff :

A second matter under A, as Members may know there is an initiative been launched throughout the British Isles called "Fly a Flag for Commonwealth Day." The plan is that flags will be flown in all major U.K. (United Kingdom) cities throughout the British Isles, and indeed further afield, and like the other Crown Dependencies, Jersey has agreed to play its part and we will fly the southernmost flag in the British Isles. There is going to be a flag-raising ceremony and that will be held at the Cenotaph on Monday, 10th March at 9.30 a.m. You will all be getting invitations shortly, but I hope Members will feel able to attend. As an extra incentive, there will be refreshments served in the Town Hall after the occasion, so I look forward to seeing Members. There are no other matters under A.

APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS

2. Nomination for a member of the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel The Bailiff :

I understand there is a nomination for a member of the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel. Chairman?

2.1 Connétable S.W. Pallett of St. Brelade :

I would like to nominate the Constable of St. Saviour as a member of the panel. The Bailiff :

Is that seconded? [Seconded] Does any other Member wish to make a nomination? Very well, I am delighted to declare then that the Constable of St. Saviour is a member of the panel. [Approbation]

QUESTIONS

3. Written Questions

1. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY THE AVAILABILITY OF A WEB-BASED INCOME SUPPORT CALCULATOR:

Question

Following his response to question 7837 on 24th September 2013 in which he stated that "Good progress has been made on creating a web-based Income Support calculator. it is anticipated that the calculator will be available shortly" can the Minister yet state when the calculator will appear?

Will he further state whether he is in a position to release "The Income Support Policy Guidelines document" which he stated "has been comprehensively reviewed over the last few months and will be reissued later this year" and, if not, when will it be available?

Answer

As stated in my response to question 7837, a technical upgrade was in progress on the gov.je website which temporarily slowed development of the calculator. Good progress has been made since then, and we are currently in the final stages of internal testing. Thorough testing is necessary due to the large number of variables that are available to input, and to ensure that the calculator is user-friendly and works on a variety of devices. I am unable to supply a firm date for the launch of the calculator, as it is wholly dependent on the success of the testing process, but I am aware that officers are working hard at present to complete this.

Meanwhile, a detailed estimate of Income Support entitlement continues to be available to customers who telephone, write to or call into the Department in person. In most cases, officers can generate an estimate very quickly when supplied with basic information about a household. The Department's own calculator is held by the Citizens Advice Bureau and a number of States members.

The Income Support Policy Guidelines document has been available to download from the Income Support section of gov.je since Monday February 3rd. This document provides a general summary of Income Support policy and, in conjunction with the new award letter successfully launched in 2012, helps customers to better understand how their payments are calculated.

2. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE INTERIM POPULATION POLICY:

Question

Will the Chief Minister explain why, despite his response to an oral question on population policy asked on 4th February 2014, his interim policy fails to address the 2013 housing projections which reveal the need to house an additional 550 households by 2016 over net nil migration with a total of an extra 1,610 units of accommodation needed?

Can the Chief Minister justify such an increase in short term demand for housing when the waiting list for social housing is already 700 plus?

Does the Chief Minister accept that this policy, described as a "policy of stability", if continued, would create additional demand for housing amounting to some 7,000 units by 2035?

Does the Chief Minister recognize that his policy, if maintained, produces large increases in population for relatively small gains in dependency ratios over the short and medium terms?

Does he accept that replacing 500 "net registered" migrants in 2010 with 400 "net licensed" migrants in 2012 continues to fail to meet his stated targets for 325 total net inward migration?

Answer

The Interim Population Policy covers the years 2014 and 2015, and it will be for the next Assembly to set a future policy for population as part of its long term planning. We cannot set a future policy for population in the absence of a comprehensive planning process, as migration has a wide effect on our Island, for example, on our economy, our infrastructure, our environment.

However, we can anticipate the long term impact of an ageing society, based on the available statistics. Our over-65s population will nearly double by 2035 under any migration scenario, and if we have net nil migration over that period our working age population will decline by 8,000 (11%). This level of decline in our workforce will have a significant effect on our dependency ratio, and hence on our economy.

In the meantime:

• The Island Plan adopts a planning assumption that is consistent with the Interim Population Policy, and so accommodates projected changes in the number of households.
• As new migrants are not eligible for social housing, there will be no short term impact on the social housing waiting list during the life of the Interim Population Policy.

Recent trends show that net inward migration is falling, and is increasingly high value. This is in line with our strategic aim of limited migration and economic growth. Maintaining this trend as the economy recovers, and achieving the +325 outlined in the Interim Population, will be a challenge. However the new Control of Housing and Work Law provides a more efficient mechanism to control inward migration and we are determined to meet the expectations of Islanders.

3. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING ANOMALIES IN THE INTERIM POPULATION POLICY:

Question

Will the Chief Minister give details of the anomalies' (referred to by the Assistant Minister in his presentation of the Interim Population policy) in the declarations made by employers under the new Control of Housing and Work manpower returns when compared with the previous system?

Will he expand on the graph on pages 22- 28 of the IPP report to show the changes in licensed staff and total staff employed under licences over the period shown?

How will the general principle of granting permission for licensed and registered staff in support of activities which have high economic value (pages 20 – 26) be used to control migration when the finance sector recovers and seeks to significantly expand using highly skilled and expert migrant staff in the light of the trend revealed by the table "Profile of migration 2010 -2012" (pages 17 - 22) which indicates large numbers of "registered" migrant workers being replaced by "licensed" workers over the period?

Does the Chief Minister accept that by 2016 under his interim "policy of stability" the population of those in private households will have grown by 2,400 to stand at 99,500 and the total population will have exceeded the previous limit of 100,000?

Answer

The new manpower returns system requires employers to report the residential status of every employee. During the presentation on the Interim Population Policy, the Assistant Chief Minister referred to the Population Office's ability to verify this information after it has been reported by employers.

This is one of the ways in which the new Control of Housing and Work Law can support local employment, economic growth, and migration control.

The following table shows J-category employees (now called licenced employees) by year:

The task of limiting migration as the economy improves will be a challenge across all sectors, as we aim to limit immigration while also securing economic growth.

"Preparing for Our Future" provides a framework to develop long term solutions. In the meantime, the Interim Population Policy proposes to:

• Maintain the planning assumption of +325 migrants per year from 2014-2015
• Support migration that adds the greatest economic and social value, and where local talent is not available. In particular:

• Support initiatives to encourage employment and improvements in skills for Islanders
• Increase the employment of "entitled" and "entitled to work" staff

The Interim Population Policy covers the years 2014 and 2015. Our population had reached 99,000 by the end of 2012. It is likely that we are now close to 100,000, and even without inward migration will potentially be slightly above this by the end of the life of the Interim Population Policy. It will be up to the next Council of Ministers to set a longer term policy for population as part of its long term planning.

4. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING AN ASSESSMENT OF THE USE OF ZERO-HOURS CONTRACTS: Question

Following his response to question 8097 in which he stated that "the current database is not able to determine whether the zero hours arrangement . was to provide cover for temporary, short-term or urgent absence", what system, if any, will the Chief Minister put into place in order to assess whether these arrangements constitute genuine use and not abuse of zero hours and, if not, what information is he preparing to contribute to those officers charged with investigating the extent of use of zero-hours contracts in the public sector?

If, in the course of the investigation, it is revealed that there is significant abuse of zero-hours contracts in particular departments, will he commit himself to eliminating such practice?

If the hours contributed by the number of those who were active on zero-hours contracts (1157) in the month ending 31st March 2012 were representative and added to the departmental FTE figures, by how much would FTE figures increase by department?

Answer

1. The system in place is that departments account for their own management and use of zero hour contracts. The operational data particular to each employee can be used to determine how that contract is being used to fulfil the needs of the service.

As the Deputy is aware, as part of the ongoing review of terms and conditions of employment, an organisation-wide policy for the use of zero hour contracts is being developed.

2. I am not aware of any evidence of significant abuse of zero hour agreements in public employment. If the Deputy has information that suggests there is such abuse in a particular department, then he should provide the information to my Department.
3. Given the variability attached to zero hours working, it is not possible to determine whether one month's figures attached to those active workers on zero hours agreements is representative of other months. The number of zero hours worked by active workers on zero hours agreements in the month ending 31st March 2012 was equivalent to approximately 275 FTE as set out in the table below:

Effective FTE increases to departments by inclusion of Zero Hours staff for March 2012

Effective FTE increase (from FTE as at 31st March 2012

Zero Hours staff) Chief Minister's Department 192.45 0.44 Economic Development 56.67 0.00 Education, Sport & Culture 1,553.62 138.69 Health & Social Services 2,321.73 131.74 Home Affairs 642.39 2.44 Housing 40.41 0.00 Department of the Environment 108.86 0.20 Social Security 139.55 0.64 Transport and Technical Services 457.99 0.15 Jersey Car Parks 21.00 0.00 Jersey Fleet Management 26.00 0.00 Treasury and Resources 225.35 0.00 States Assembly 26.52 0.00 Non Ministerial States Funded 178.14 0.39 Non Min SFB-Overseas Aid 1.54 0.00 5,992.23 274.68

It is important to note that:-

• The FTEs to which Deputy Southern wishes to compare the above figures for March 2012 are not directly comparable:-

• FTEs previously given for Permanent and Contract staff were calculated at a fixed point in time using HRIS data, whereas zero hour data is calculated from payroll data across the whole month of March 2012 and will fluctuate day to day;
• HRIS FTE figures reflect those in the Education department who work term-time only and other seasonal employees by prorating their working hours over a whole year, whereas Payroll picks up  every  hour paid to an  employee and zero hours workers during the month, and therefore will be overstated in comparison with the HRIS figures during term-time;

• An effective FTE' from zero hours workers cannot generally be directly replaced by a permanent staff member. Many roles, such as Bank Nursing and Highlands College supply, work only to specific service needs at varying times. As such the addition of 275 FTE of staff to the States pay bill would not necessarily result in appropriate cover where and when it is needed. This is one of the main reasons  why  casual  labour usage  for  one  month  cannot  be  translated into  a  substantive headcount.

5. DEPUTY  G.P.  SOUTHERN  OF  ST.  HELIER  OF THE  CHIEF  MINISTER REGARDING  THE  POTENTIAL  FOR  THJE  INTRODUCTION  OF  A  LIVING WAGE IN JERSEY:

Question

Is the Minister in a position to report back to the Assembly, as requested in P.37/2013 (Living wage for Jersey – investigation'), on the results of his investigation into the potential for the introduction of a living wage in Jersey and, if not, will he state why and inform members when he will be in a position to do so?

Answer

The 2014 business plans for both the Chief Minister's Department and the Social Security Department include commitments to work on researching a living wage for Jersey.

As explained in response to P.37/2013 and during the debate itself, scoping a meaningful living wage will require significant input from officers in both Departments. It therefore could not be achieved by the end of January 2014 as proposed in P.37/2013. During the debate it was confirmed that a report by the end of 2014 would be acceptable.

There are a number of different elements to the Living Wage calculation, one of which is income distribution. Work on the 2014/2015 Household Income Distribution Survey will start in Spring 2014 and will be completed by the end of 2015. Alongside that, work will be undertaken to establish other elements of the Living Wage calculation, such as basic cost of living.

An interim report will be brought forward at the end of 2014 pending completion of the Household Distribution Survey.

6. DEPUTY J.A.N. LE FONDRE OF ST. LAWRENCE OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE ANNUAL REPORT OFTHE FISCAL POLICY PANEL:

Question

Further to the remarks made by the Fiscal Policy Panel in recommendation 6 which appears on printed page 7 of their Annual report published on 5th November 2013 (and available on the 2013 Treasury and Resources reports and documents page of www.gov.je), would the Minister provide the following:

1. a financial forecast for the current and next 3 years including updated income projections;
2. proposed movements and projected year end balances on the Consolidated Fund, Stabilisation Fund and Strategic Reserve for the current year and next 3 years;
3. data which shows what happened to these funds in the last 3 years; and,
4. a financial forecast showing the surpluses and deficits adjusted to recognise the economic impacts?

Answer

Part a) a financial forecast for the current and next 3 years including updated income projections;

The financial forecast represents the MTFP forecasts updated for the 2013 and 2014 Budget and the Update to the MTFP Department Annex for 2014 (R8/2014).

The financial forecast will be revised for the 2015 Budget and will include the Outturn figures for 2013.

Part b) proposed movements and projected year end balances on the Consolidated Fund, Stabilisation Fund and Strategic Reserve for the current year and next 3 years:

The Fund Movements and estimated balances represent the forecasts following the 2014 Budget.

The forecast of fund movements and fund balances will be revised for the 2015 Budget and will include the Outturn figures for 2013.

Part c) data which shows what happened to these funds in the last 3 years;

The following tables illustrate the movement in balances on the Consolidated Fund, Stabilisation Fund and Strategic Reserve for the last 3 years.

d) a financial forecast showing the surpluses and deficits adjusted to recognise the economic impacts?

The work to produce a financial forecast with adjustments estimating the economic impacts was initially undertaken as a result of a recommendation from the 2012 Fiscal Policy Panel report. This work was discussed with the Panel in advance of this year's report and updated as a result of the Panel's initial comments.

The work to adjust for the estimated economic impacts has been to:

• Replace the budgeted capital allocations with an estimate from departments of the expected cash flow profile for all capital projects in the future programme.
• Include in the forecast of capital cash flows from departments how the balance of unspent capital at 31st December 2012.
• Reflect other  timing  variances  between  budgeted allocations and actual expenditure  in relation to known carry forwards.
• Include adjustments to  reflect planned  movements  in the Trading  Funds of  the States Trading operations, principally Jersey Airport and Jersey Harbours.
• Assess the estimated net economic impact of the other funds of the States, which are outside of the Consolidated Fund, but still affecting the economy. These adjustments are for the projected surplus or deficit of the Social Security Fund, Health Insurance Fund, Dwelling Houses Loans Fund etc.

The  Treasury  will  continue  to  review  the  economic  impact  analysis  to  support  the  work  in development of the LTRP and LTCP and ensure an update is available to the FPP for the next annual report. Consideration will be given to the inclusion of this analysis in the next MTFP 2016- 2019.

Summary Financial Forecast with adjustments estimating the economic impact

7. DEPUTY  J.A.N.  LE  FONDRÉ  OF  ST.  LAWRENCE OF THE  MINISTER  FOR TREASURY  AND  RESOURCES REGARDING  AN  UPDATE  OF SUMMARY TABLE A IN THE MEDIUM TERM FINANCIAL PLAN:

Question

Would the Minister provide an updated version of Summary Table A as included on page 144 of the Medium Term Financial Plan (2013-2015) (P.69/2012) for the years 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016?

Answer

The following Summary Income Table represents the MTFP forecasts as updated for the changes agreed in the 2013 and 2014 Budgets.

The Summary Income forecasts will be revised for the 2015 Budget and will include the Outturn figures for 2013.

8. DEPUTY  J.A.N. LE  FONDRÉ  OF  ST.  LAWRENCE  OF THE  MINISTER  FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES FREGARDING AN UPDATE ON THE GENERAL REVENUE INCOME:

Question

Given  that  the  graph  for  General  Revenue  Income  provided  on  page  1  of  the  section supplementary notes on income forecasts for budget 2014 (September 2013)' (R.8/2014 refers) ("page 1"), appears to indicate a drop in forecast revenue in the order of £30m, would the Minister provide an updated forecast for the years 2013 to 2016 inclusive, utilising the revenue figures used in the Long Term Revenue Plan as referred to on page 1, using updated expenditure forecasts, and presenting such forecast in the format used in table 4.2 on page 25 of the 2012 budget (P159/2011)?

Answer

The Supplementary Note on Income Forecasts for the Budget 2014' provided States members with an extract from the work, which was carried out for the Long Term Revenue Plan (LTRP). This LTRP extract covered the period 2013 to 2015 and provided a summary of the initial review of the forecasts for  General Revenue  Income only. This did  not  include  information on expenditure forecasts.

The figures for States Income forecasts, which formed the basis for the graph on page 1 of the supplementary note, have been updated and all include the impact of the agreed 2014 Budget measures and are as follows:

Note: the MTFP adjusted' forecast represents the MTFP original forecasts adjusted for the measures agreed in the 2013 and 2014 Budget, as used in the Answers for Written Questions Q8128 and Q8129 for this States sitting.

It is important to note that the LTRP is a much longer term planning tool, looking beyond the next MTFP. As with all longer term planning, the longer the timescale, the greater the uncertainty and hence the more prudent the assumptions used.

The central MTFP forecasts, updated for the agreed 2013 and 2014 Budget measures (including the 1% reduction in marginal income tax rate), remain the central forecast.

9. DEPUTY  M. TADIER  OF ST.  BRELADE OF  THE  CHAIRMAN  OF  THE EDUCATION  AND  HOME  AFFAIRS  SCRUTINY  PANEL  REGARDING  THE PANEL'S ANTICIPATED WORK PROGRAMME:

Question

Will the Chairman provide a summary of the anticipated work programme for the remainder of the term, including any current and new reviews and state what policy areas will be a priority for the panel in both departments?

Answer

On 21st January 2014, I was privileged to be appointed as Chairman of the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel. On 4th February 2014, the Connétable of St Martin was approved by the States to sit on the Panel. We have met twice since then. The First meeting was to deal with the constitution of the Panel, meeting dates and to decide how to move forward. The second was on Thursday 13th February, to receive a briefing on the work programme of the Home Affairs Minister.

The Panel has now arranged a similar briefing from the Minister of Education, Sport and Culture to be held on 24th February.

Careful consideration needs to be given to what is achievable over the remaining time available in this session. Therefore, prior to the next Panel meeting, on 24th February, when our work programme will be decided, it would be premature for me to provide the States with an anticipated work programme for the Scrutiny Panel for the remainder of the term.

10. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE EDUCATION AND HOME AFFAIRS SCRUTINY PANEL REGARDING THE CURRENT DRUGS POLICY OF THE HOME AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT:

Question

In the light of Report SR8/2013 regarding "Customs and Immigration Service: resources for prevention of importation of illegal drugs" presented in May last year, will the Chairman state whether he is now satisfied that the current drugs policy of the Home Affairs department is fit for purpose and advise what areas of concern he still has, if any?

Answer

I have reviewed the scrutiny report SR8/2013 Customs and Immigration Service: Resources for Prevention of Importation of Illegal Drugs' which was published and presented to the States on 10th May 2013 by the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel, chaired at that time by Deputy J Macon. I was a member of the Panel during the full evidence gathering process. I have also discussed the issues raised in that report with the Minister for Home Affairs.

At the time of publication of the report, the Panel had not found any significant cause for concern that the Jersey Customs and Immigration Service was failing in its responsibility to maintain disruption levels nor that staff shortages were leading to increased availability of illegal drugs in the Island. The evidence given by the various agencies consulted by the Panel did not provide any direct challenge to the policy of containment and disruption as set out by the Minister for Home Affairs in the Scrutiny hearing on 22nd June 2012. Rather than any significant increase in the availability of illegal drugs, there appeared at that time to have been a reduction in the use of Class A drugs. A trend that I am informed by the Minister is continuing at this point in time. I am, therefore satisfied that that the current drugs policy of the Home Affairs department is fit for purpose.

That being said, subsequent to the Scrutiny report, the Minister has made provision for two part time posts to be added during the summer months of 2014 to boost the resources available at the points of entry to the Island.

11. DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE MINISTER FOR PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT REGARDING THE CONTAMINATION OF GROUNDWATER BY THE PROCESS KNOWN AS FRACKING':

Question

Does the Minister accept that in the USA, fracturing of underground rock by the process known as fracking' has caused contamination of groundwater with both the gas and chemicals used in the process?

Given that Jersey's geology is such that substantial amounts of groundwater flow through faults and crevices in the rock below, will the Minister guarantee to commission a comprehensive study of the possible risks associated with fracking locally, before any consideration of using the process is entered into?

Answer

As with any complex industrial process, hydraulic fracturing (commonly referred to as fracking') has occasionally resulted in accidents, particularly in the early development period. The Minister is aware that some groundwater contamination connected with the hydraulic fracturing process has occurred in the USA but precise details, particularly regarding the scale and distribution of such contamination incidents is difficult to gauge, given the amount of conflicting and often inaccurate information generally available on the internet and in the media generally.

Since its inception in the late 1940s, millions of fracking events have been carried out around the world, (including in oil and gas wells in the North Sea), without incident. Hydraulic fracturing can undoubtedly be carried out safely if the correct regulatory regime, environmental protection and proper monitoring regimes are put in place before the process is permitted to be used.

The geology beneath Jersey is not conducive to the formation of hydrocarbon gases that are commonly obtained by the process of fracking.

A prime requirement for the formation of hydrocarbon gases at depth in the sub-surface is the presence of organic rich rocks. Whilst shales do underlie parts of the Island, there is no evidence to suggest that any of the shales contained any organic material, let alone was ever rich in organic material. The shales beneath Jersey were laid down in excess of 600 million years ago during the Pre-Cambrian, a period that pre-dates the first detectable life forms on the planet. Elsewhere, shale gas is found in much younger rocks, for example Devonian and Carboniferous strata, in which organically rich rocks do occur. None of these younger rocks are present beneath Jersey or beneath the sea bed in the vicinity of the Island. In addition hydrocarbon gases do not form in igneous rocks, such as the granites and volcanic rocks that underlie much of Jersey. In the absence of organic material in the shales, it is highly unlikely that any shale gas is present beneath the Island. In the highly unlikely event that a potential hydrocarbon gas resource were to be identified beneath the Island, the Department of the Environment would seek advice and assistance from relevant authorities and institutions outside the island, (for example the UK Environment Agency, the Health and Safety Executive, and the British geological Survey), that have extensive experience in the regulation and monitoring of hydraulic fracturing operations. By this means, all potential risks, including potential impacts on groundwater resources, could be fully understood. This would enable the development of appropriate mitigation and regulation policy before there is any consideration of permitting hydraulic fracturing operations to occur beneath the Island.

It is worth noting that I shall shortly be bringing before the Assembly the Energy Plan: Pathway 2050. This document outlines a low carbon future for Jersey that seeks to reduce the Island's carbon emissions by up to 80% by 2050 based on a 1990 baseline. Within that framework I do not anticipate the use of (hydro-carbon rich) gas generated from fracking either on Jersey or in its territorial waters.

12. DEPUTY  R.G. LE  HÉRISSIER  OF ST.  SAVIOUR OF  THE  MINISTER  FOR ECONOMIC  DEVELOPMENT REGARDING  C.I.C.R.A.  AND  JERSEY TELECOMS:

Question

Would the Minister confirm whether the CICRA supports a "level playing field" for companies who wish to connect to the JT as wholesale customers for the purpose of retailing office telephone systems?

How is the CICRA promoting a "level playing field" and when will it be in place? Answer

The Channel Islands Competition and Regulatory Authorities (CICRA) comprise the Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority and the Guernsey Competition and Regulatory Authority (formerly known as the Office of Utility Regulation).

CICRA does not regulate the sale of office telephone systems under the Telecommunications (Jersey) Law 2002, since parties do not require a telecoms licence to sell or install office telephone systems. Regarding whether a level playing field' exists for companies who retail office telephone systems, CICRA has advised EDD that there is a range of suppliers, both on-island and off-island, from which businesses in Jersey can purchase telephone systems.

The Competition (Jersey) Law 2005 prohibits anti-competitive behaviour, including anti- competitive agreements between businesses and the abuse of a dominant position in a market.

I am aware that a competition concern was previously raised regarding telephone systems. In response to a complaint from Nitel, CICRA conducted an investigation in late 2012/early 2013 under Article 26 of the Competition (Jersey) Law 2005 as to whether JT was engaging in predatory pricing of telephone systems, and therefore abusing a dominant position contrary to Art 16 of the Competition Law; that is, whether JT was selling telephone systems at a price that is so low that the intent of its pricing was to drive competitors out of the market. CICRA has informed my department that, at that time, it reviewed a number of telephone system contracts between JT and customers, but could find no evidence that those systems (and the support services provided alongside them) were being sold at a price that was below average variable cost. The file was therefore closed.

If a business had a competition concern in this area it should raise it with the regulator. CICRA would then assess the complaint to see if there are grounds to commence an investigation under the competition laws.

More broadly, regarding wholesale access EDD is strongly supportive of a robust and competitive telecoms sector and believes that the introduction of WLR would give islanders the same range of choice that has been available to consumers in other jurisdictions for a long time.

CICRA has an ongoing commitment to requiring JT in Jersey and Sure in Guernsey, as the incumbent telecoms operators, to provide other operators with access to their fixed-line networks. CICRA issued a final decision last May obliging JT (and Sure) to introduce Wholesale Line Rental, but that decision was overturned by the Royal Court on procedural grounds and remitted to CICRA on 29 November last year. Following the court's decision, I have been informed by CICRA that it expects, before the end of next month, to re-consult on requiring JT (and Sure) to provide wholesale access to their fixed-line networks. This would enable competing operators to supply a broader range of fixed-line telecoms services, and would provide Jersey customers with choice.

13. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING COMPANIES CONNECTING TO THE J.T. NETWORK:

Question

Is the Minister as the sole shareholder in JT and the representative of the public interest, satisfied that there exists a "level playing field" for companies connecting to the JT network as wholesale customers to promote the sale of office telephone systems? If not, why not?

Answer

The sale of office (and home) phone systems is an open and competitive market that is served by providers that do not have a presence in the Island as well as a number of local providers that do, JT, Nitel and JET, amongst others.

These providers almost always connect to a licensed network, JT being the principal one in Jersey, although there are others. Local companies such as Nitel compete on a level playing field with other providers.

The Minister is advised that complaints of this nature were made to CICRA in 2012 and a full investigation took place into an allegation that JT was abusing a dominant position in the supply, installation and servicing of office telephone systems. The conclusion of the investigation was that there was no case to answer, with the CICRA file having been subsequently closed in early 2013. Nevertheless the Minister is always mindful of the need to maintain cost effective telephone and data networks for both local people and businesses, and if change is necessary it will be considered.

14. DEPUTY J.H. YOUNG OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT REGARDING ENFORCEMENT MATTERS:

Question

Will the Minister explain why in his reply to my written question on 21st January 2014 about Planning enforcement matters in particular "those matters which were subject of recent decisions of the Royal Court to allow appeals against enforcement action previously taken by his Department" he replied "Taking recently to mean the last 12 months , the Royal Court has not allowed any appeals made against the serving of enforcement notices".

Whereas on 29th October 2013 , after investigation by the Amicus Curiae appointed by the Court into an enforcement matter and consequent convictions for enforcement offences, the Royal Court was advised "that there were grounds for concern over the validity of an enforcement notice which had been servedthere were technical procedural irregularities and ..the Crown no longer views it as being in the public interest to continue with these charges" and therefore did not oppose the appeal against prosecution, resulting in the Royal Court quashing the convictions, awarding the appellant costs.

Will he now reconsider his reply, explain why this was not disclosed in his reply to my original question and provide the Assembly with a complete and wholly accurate reply?

Answer

The answer to how this question was answered originally has already been explained to Deputy Young via email correspondence.

The Deputy refers to an individual case which was considered by the Royal Court last year. This was not an appeal against an enforcement notice of the department, but was a hearing to request an appeal against a Court conviction. This was required because the person involved, was out of time for the normal appeal against the Court's original decision to convict.

In assessing whether to allow the individual the right of appeal, the Court considered the grounds put forward by the prospective appellant. In assessing these grounds, the Court decided to allow the opportunity to appeal. It also went on to allow the appeal against conviction. In doing so the original enforcement notice was withdrawn as it considered the wording unclear. Due to this technicality the Crown did not consider it in the public interest to continue with the charges.

The answer given originally to the question on the 21st January 2014 was correct in so far as I am able to answer in relation to appeals against my department. The case the Deputy refers to was an appeal against a Court decision. However, by nature of the final decision it had an impact on earlier work of my department.

This case was not however a formal appeal against a refusal of planning permission or an appeal against an enforcement notice. Both of which options the person in this case declined to exercise.

I do understand that the Deputy considers my earlier answer did not fully answer the question. I would suggest that the answer was technically correct in relation to appeals against my departments work. I had taken advice on its content before submission.

I would also suggest that if the question had been written differently and been more specific, it could have offered me the opportunity to refer to this case. Alternatively it could be argued that as the case referred to was to seek leave to appeal against a conviction, it may have been more appropriately put to the Crown Officers.

I consider that I can only answer a question with reference to the work of my own department. I would suggest that I could not automatically infer from the question that the Deputy was referring to work outside of my department, although it did have an impact on a previous case. The Case referred to was known to the Deputy and has already been publicly reported on. The information pertaining to it has already therefore been publicly disclosed.

3.15DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE ARREST AND REMOVAL OF A LADY KNOWN AS H.G:

Question

Will the Chief Minister explain, with reference to previous questions on matters on the arrest and removal from the Island of the lady known as HG:

1. What steps, if any, the Safeguarding Officer has taken to discuss her report with HG?
2. When the report will be completed?
3. When will the report be released into the public domain, and if the report is not to be released, why not?

Answer

The Chair of the Independent Safeguarding Board is trying to contact the person known as HG in order to seek her views on the services she received in Jersey and to share the draft report with her. The Independent Chair is working to establish contact.

Much work has already been done to compile the report but it cannot be completed until the Independent Chair has had contact with HG.

It is anticipated that the report will be published once it has been completed.

16. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF H.M. ATTORNEY GENERAL REGARDING THE CLARIFICATION OF THE LAW OF DEFAMATION:

Question

Will the Attorney General -

1. confirm whether the law differentiates between a person who libels another and a person who repeats the libel by publishing it in a written form;
2. outline whetherthere are any exemptions to the law of defamation for government departments and public bodies?

Answer

1. Libel is the written form of defamation (as opposed to slander which is the spoken form). Each publication of a statement which repeats an earlier libellous statement is itself a libel;
2. the Attorney General is not aware of any general exemptions for government departments or public bodies from the law of defamation. However there are statutory provisions that give specific exemptions to some public bodies in some circumstances (see, for examples, Article 43 (1)(a) of the Public Records (Jersey) Law 2002 and Article 121 of the Broadcasting (Jersey) Order 2003) and some public bodies enjoy absolute privilege (for example, a statement made in a court). In addition, defences such as "qualified privilege" may be open to public authorities against any claim in defamation.

17. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF H.M. ATTORNEY GENERAL REGARDING THE RULES OF COURT IN RESPECT OF THE TREATMENT OF WITNESSES:

Question

Will H.M. Attorney General state:

1. Whether the Rules ofCourt for the Royal Court, Magistrates Court, Petty Debts Court, Industrial and other Tribunals allow witnesses or people likely to be called as witnesses to:

1. be present in court/hearing and hear the oral evidence of other witnesses to the case in question before giving their own evidence;
2. have sight of, or knowledge of, the witness statements made by other witnesses before giving evidence;
3. hear the legal arguments between the parties/ prosecution and defence and judge/chairman before giving evidence;
4. discuss with other witnesses their evidence before giving it in the court/hearing/tribunal, or have knowledge of the evidence given by other witnesses.

2. Whether any of 1 (a), (b) (c), (d) would be prejudicial to a fair hearing ofthe case in question; and
3. Whether any of 1 (a), (b) (c), or (d) would be compatible with Article 6 ofthe European Convention on Human Rights i.e. the Right to a Fair Hearing?

Answer

As far as the Attorney General is aware there are no specific Rules of Court that deal with the matters set out in the question.

It is the obligation of any of Courts and Tribunals determining a criminal case or a civil right or obligation to ensure a fair hearing and to ensure, where applicable, the specific provisions set out in Article 6 of the European Convention of Human Rights ("ECHR") are adhered to. A court will apply the appropriate rules of evidence in doing so.

The proper handling of witnesses will depend on the nature of the case, the allegations, and the evidence that the witness might give.

Different considerations may apply to different types of witnesses. For example, it is quite normal for someone who is to give expert evidence to remain in a court and hear all of the other witnesses, particularly if that may help the expert give more assistance to the court in the light of what those witnesses might say.

Accused persons in criminal proceedings or parties in civil proceedings will, as a general rule, be entitled to see all of the evidence in advance and hear all evidence against them and any legal arguments before giving evidence themselves.

Witnesses giving purely formal or uncontentious evidence may by agreement be allowed to remain during other evidence.

As a general rule, however, lay witnesses and witnesses of disputed fact are excluded from a hearing until they have given their own evidence. Generally witnesses should not discuss the evidence that they might give with another witness and if they have done so the credibility of their evidence may be undermined.

It is open to a defendant in a criminal case to cross-examine a witness as to credibility and in a criminal matter, for example, a judge may warn a jury to be cautious of evidence given by a witness who has discussed it with another witness and in some cases may direct a jury to disregard it.

There is nothing wrong in principle with a witness, prior to giving evidence, refreshing his or her memory from his or her own witness statement.

Once a witness starts to give evidence and the matter is adjourned before that evidence is concluded they are directed by a judge that they should not discuss their evidence with any person during the adjournment.

Accordingly, in response to the numbered paragraphs in the question:

1. There are no Rules of Court as such that touch expressly on the matters set out in sub- paragraphs (a) to(d);
2. It is impossible to answer this question. Any ofthe matters set out in 1(a) to 1(d) might be prejudicial to a fair hearing (and that possibility is greater if not corrected during the hearing itself) but it is equally possible that there may be no prejudice. It will depend on the circumstances of the case and the nature of the evidence; and,
3. None of the express provisions of Article 6 ECHR touch on the matters raised in part 1(a) to

(d) of the question. Accordingly this part of the question falls to be answered in the same way as the preceding part.

18. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING ANINCIDENTIN SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL PARK IN MAY 2011:

Question

Will the Minister advise members –

1. what prosecutions, if any, took place following an incidentinvolving young people in Sir Winston Churchill Park, St. Brelade on 13th May 2011;
2. whether complaints were made against two Police Officers in connection withthis incident; and,
3. what the result of any investigation was into the complaints outlined in (b), including the nature ofthe investigation and whetherany disciplinary hearings or charges were brought against the officers concerned?

Answer

1. One young person received a written caution at a Parish Hall Enquiry.
2. No formal complaints were made against any police officer. I am advised that the States Police are not currently aware of any complaints having been made.
3. Not applicable as no complaints made.

19. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING CERTIFICATES FOR SERVICE FOR STATES OF JERSEY POLICE OFFICERS:

Question

Will the Minister confirm that an Officer of 31 years' service would normally be entitled to a Certificate of Service signed by the Chief Officer of Police? Will he explain the reasons why such an officer would not receive such a certificate for his service?

Answer

Article 9(3) of the Police Force (General Provisions) (Jersey) Order 1974 provides that on leaving the Force, an officer shall be given a certificate showing details of his / her service.

In 2007, for reasons which are not completely clear, but which may relate to changes of staff, the States of Jersey Police stopped arranging for the issuing of such certificates and instead provided officers who were leaving the Force with a letter which contained similar details. The issue was raised recently by the officer referred to in the question and as a result I met with the Deputy Chief Officer and with a member of the Home Affairs HR staff in order to resolve this.

An appropriate certificate had now been issued to this officer and to one other officer and the correct practice of issuing certificates has been restored.

The said Article 9(3) does not stipulate who signs the certificate and in my view the signatures could properly include one or more of the Minister for Home Affairs, the Assistant Minister for Home Affairs, the Chairman of the Police Authority, the Chief Officer of Police or the Deputy Chief Officer of Police.

I am in the process of reviewing the Police Force (General Provisions) (Jersey) Order 1974 and intend to replace this with a new Order later this year.

I believe that the tradition of a leaving certificate is a good tradition, which appropriately marks appreciation for a period of service in the States of Jersey Police and it is my intention to maintain this tradition but with less information than is currently required by the existing Order.

4. Oral Questions

1. Deputy J.H.YoungofSt.BreladeoftheMinisterforEconomicDevelopment regarding the use of public resources to prosecute local fishermen under the Shipping (Fishing Vessels – Safety Training) (Jersey) Order 2004:

Will the Minister inform the Assembly whether he authorised the use of public resources to prosecute local fishermen for time-expired certificates of training under the Shipping (Fishing Vessels - Safety Training) (Jersey) Order 2004? If so, would he explain why this was considered preferable to the direct provision of training by the Harbourmaster and how he considers imposing fines on fishermen assists the industry in difficult economic times?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):

I have not authorised the prosecution of anyone. It is the Law Officers' Department who have the function of taking prosecution decisions. The Harbourmaster has a duty to refer relevant cases where the law has been broken to the Law Officers' Department for a prosecution decision to be made. Decisions taken by the Law Officers will have regard to the public interest considerations. The fishermen have been convicted and fined in the Magistrates Court. They are in the process of appealing their fine only and therefore I cannot talk further about the individual case. The

Harbourmaster has no duty to provide training but nonetheless has gone well beyond his call of duty by assisting in the scheduling of 2 additional courses during last year and is currently in the final stages of negotiating with training providers for the future provision of courses. The prosecution of anyone is a last resort and in no one's interest, which is why strenuous efforts were made to avoid this situation, but no individual or industry should be above the law.

1. Deputy J.H. Young:

The Minister stressed that it was not his decision, it was the Attorney General's decision, but I wonder if the Minister could tell us whether he is familiar with the guidelines issued by the Attorney General on the circumstances when it is not appropriate to refer a breach to the Attorney General, for example minor matters, genuine mistakes, misunderstandings, relying on information volunteered in the course of an inquiry, et cetera? Is he aware of that, has he considered it and, if he has not, will he do so?

[9:45]

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

Officers within departments certainly consider those matters, which are of course very relevant. We do not want to be bothering the good officers of the Law Officers' Department for minor misdemeanours. This unfortunately is a situation that had dragged on for some considerable time, repeated warnings had been made and, sadly and unfortunately, those involved did not act upon those encouragements from the department to rectify the situation. The law was unfortunately, therefore, broken and in a knowing way.

2. Deputy S.G. Luce of St. Martin :

In the media reports in this case, the case immediately following was another fisherman who was charged with going to sea without a valid certification. The fisherman pleaded not guilty and the prosecution offered no evidence. Does the Minister think this is a good use of court time?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

The Deputy perhaps should not rely upon media reports for accuracy. That would be the first point I would make. I would also seek from him clarification as to whether he is referring to a related party in this particular transaction or incident or whether he is talking about a totally separate case.

The Deputy of St. Martin :

The case I refer to was the father of the person who was charged initially. The case went to court and no prosecution evidence was given.

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

There was, as I understand it, another individual on the boat who was appropriately certificated and therefore this particular incident was not one that we progressed because there was no infraction of the law as such.

3. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier :

Perhaps the Minister can tell us how many cases put forward by his officers to the Law Officers have ever been rejected? I witnessed a case in the Magistrates Court yesterday and it does appear to be that the Law Officers' Department appear to rubberstamp or basically do what the departments are telling their people to do. Is that the case in your department?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I would turn that question on its head. This legislation came about first of all in 1999 as a result of the sad loss of life, where it was made clear that Jersey was deficient in terms of protecting its seafarers by having appropriate legislation and training programmes in place to ensure that we mitigate such risks. Since the law was introduced there have, as far as I am aware, not been prosecutions although there are 2 current potential cases that are being considered.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

With respect, the Minister answered a totally different question. He did not answer my question about has he had any cases overturned at all that he has referred to the Law Officers Department and, secondly, is it a case of his department gives a recommendation and it is rubberstamped?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I do not think it is a case of being rubberstamped at all. As far as this legislation is concerned, I am not aware of any cases being brought, apart from the one we are referring to now. I think I answered the question by simply saying there are 2 others in train that potentially could lead to prosecution. Whether indeed those are accepted by the Law Officers' Department, it is too early, clearly, to tell at this stage.

4. Connétable P.J. Rondel of St. John :

Given many fishermen have only worked for 3 days out of the last 60, would the Minister say what good putting people to court is and getting fined £3,000-odd for not having a certificate when the Minister himself has just admitted that there was a certified person on that vessel with the necessary qualifications? Therefore, the other party whose certificate had lapsed .. will he tell us what he has put in place, through the Harbour Office, to assist these people in getting that certificate? Historically, the Harbour Office used to arrange special courses for the industry. Has that fallen away?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

The Harbour Office organises, through independent training providers, for courses to be laid on. There are a whole raft of courses that are laid on through the year. The majority of fishermen seemed to be able to attend these courses. The legislation was crafted to be a light touch. For example, with regard to the firefighting course, in particular in the U.K. - and this question may be asked - it is a lifetime certification but that is because it is a significantly more complicated course to go through. Ours is in the evening for a couple of hours. We have tried to make it light touch, we have tried to make it easy, and it is supported, I might add, by the Jersey Fishermen's Association and other fishing body associations.

5. The Connétable of St. John :

The Minister talks about a light touch but, given the fine is something up to £5,000, does he consider a £3,500 fine a light touch, in particular when nobody has been working in the industry for roughly 2 months, apart from 3 days?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

Within the legislation, the maximum fine, I understand, was up to £7,000. The magistrate clearly took the decision, based on the details of the case presented before her, that £3,500 was appropriate. I have already mentioned this is a matter of appeal and I cannot talk any further about it. The Connétable raises a very valid point about industries suffering in the current economic climate but in particular, as far as the fishing industry is concerned, with regard to the weather conditions. They have not been able to go to sea, we appreciate that, but it is a totally separate issue to what we

are discussing in terms of this question. Do we support the fishing industry? Yes, we do, to the tune of tens of thousands of pounds. I have had conversations with the president of the Fishing Association who is satisfied.

6. Deputy J.H. Young:

Is it not the case that we have now a new regime under the Ports of Jersey where technical transgressions of a time expiry of a certificate are seen to be a rationale for prosecuting? Would the Minister not accept that the department are relying on courses provided by other people, that the earliest dates that courses are currently available are in the April, May and September coming, and what situation does that leave the fishermen in now whose certificates may have expired? He has mentioned 2 others in the pipeline. Surely we should be devoting the resources will he not accept we should be devoting resources to helping these people meet the requirements that we are having to approve in the States?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

The Deputy has raised the point about the range of courses throughout the year, and that is just one particular firefighting course that he is referring to. There are first aid courses that are even more frequent. The department will respond where necessary if courses are required, working with third- party providers, quite correctly, to ensure that courses are available. In this particular instance, there was warning after warning; the individuals knew that the requirement to certificate was there; they knew that courses were on. Indeed, on top of all that there was a 3-month exemption for the whole fishing industry in order to provide a course and allow them to get certificated within that additional period. There has been plenty of effort to assist the industry, and there will be more, of course, if necessary.

2. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding respite services for families and young adults with complex needs:

Can the Minister advise whether a need for additional funding has been identified for respite services for families and young adults with complex needs and advise what contingency plans, if any, have been made for when the present contract with Highlands Luxury Care Home terminates on 31st May this year?

Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity (The Minister for Health and Social Services):

I met with the service users and their families at the end of last year to discuss their views on respite services going forward. I take their views very seriously and intend to involve them fully in any decisions that are made in the future. Highlands Luxury Care Home is just one of the providers who support adults with complex needs and their families. Our partnership with Autism Jersey and Les Amis, to name but 2, provides a vital role in providing support. An additional £120,000 has been identified from the White Paper for short-break respite for children and their families and this is not a one-size-fits-all service. Packages need to be designed around the specific needs of the individual. Last year we tendered for short-break providers so that we have more choice and we also help families design bespoke care packages for children and adolescents with complex needs. Like the children's respite service, the adult service will be open to tender and the aim is that there will be no break in service when the existing contract ends. The intention is to have a range of service providers to offer choice to service users and the families will be an active part of the selection process.

1. Deputy M. Tadier :

I hope that selection process and tender process will allow for stability and security for parents and users. Will the Minister accept that there is currently an insufficient capacity at Highlands Care Home and that the 4 beds, 2 of which were supposed to be nursing and 2 non-nursing, have effectively reduced to 3 because one is being used for a permanent client and therefore even more pressure is being put on those parents and clients who would wish to use that very valuable respite? If she does, what action will she take?

The Deputy of Trinity :

We always want to make sure that we have bespoke services around each individual and that is why this tender process is important. I am very pleased that the service users and their families are involved right from the very beginning. I understand that they have a draft S.L.A. (service level agreement) with them now and one of the commissioners is going to meet with them tomorrow to go through their thoughts and experiences of the S.L.A. to make sure that we have it right going forward.

2. Deputy J.A. Hilton of St. Helier :

Can the Minister inform Members when the department intends to reinstate long-weekend and short-break respite for young adults with complex needs? Also, can she give Members an assurance that those 12 young people who will be in transition from children to adults in the next 3 years will be well catered for with regard to respite?

The Deputy of Trinity :

Yes, I would like to reassure the Deputy . That is why it is very important that service users are included right at the very beginning of putting together what the needs are, as well as the service level agreement, and also being part of a tender panel. I know that the Special Needs Advisory Panel is a representative of the voice of the people with learning difficulties and they meet very regularly with the service users.

3. Deputy J.A. Hilton:

Could the Minister just confirm when the short breaks will be reinstated for users? The Deputy of Trinity :

At this moment in time I cannot give her that information but I will come back to her.

4. Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen :

Could the Minister confirm whether all young people with complex needs are provided with bespoke care packages and, if so, whether that is extended to those that suffer with mental health issues?

The Deputy of Trinity :

It is all based on individual needs and working with their parents and with the service users too. That is the most important way as we go forward. A lot of investment has been placed and it is important that we get it right for each individual.

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

The question that I asked the Minister was specific in that I asked her whether she could confirm whether all young people with complex needs are provided with bespoke care packages. It is basically a yes or no answer.

The Deputy of Trinity :

If that is what the way forward is for them. As I said, each individual is managed through a proper adult social worker team and a respite care co-ordinator to make sure that it is the right thing for them, be it respite care or be it outreach in their own homes.

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

Please would the Minister respond with the answer yes or no? The Deputy of Trinity :

It is not as simple as that because with service users and families everyone is an individual, so from that point I suppose, yes, but not everyone has the same.

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

So would the Minister confirm the answer is no? The Bailiff :

I think the Minister has addressed it.

5. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Will the Minister acknowledge that some of the cases she is aware of at the present time and have been outlined are just the tip of the iceberg and that many families are suffering behind the scenes and quietly? Will she say whether she thinks £120,000 of extra money is going to be sufficient to meet the pent-up demand that there is for this vital service?

The Deputy of Trinity :

The £120,000 is extra to the children's respite service, so it brings us to £600,000, plus the care in Oakwell, Eden House and the Haven. There is an extra £500,000 for adult respite care and just over another £500,000 for older respite care, plus day centres and community care.

6. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Can the Minister say whether she does believe that what we are seeing at the moment is only the tip of the iceberg and what steps she is taking to communicate and contact the families who are in need of this care?

[10:00]

The Deputy of Trinity :

Will there be enough? I would have thought perhaps not going into the future and that is why we must always continue to look forward. Another way we are looking forward is working with Housing for another residential unit that will be up and running next year. I have forgotten the first part of the question. I am sorry. Yes, working with others. A lot of work has been done under the chairmanship of Senator Routier. As I said, there is a Special Needs Advisory Panel that is a representative voice of the people with learning difficulties and their families. Also there is a service users' forum as well.

7. Deputy M. Tadier :

We seem to be in the same situation as 3 years ago where Oakwell was the case in point and now exactly the same thing seems to be happening at Highlands Care Home. Can I ask the Minister will she meet with the Minister for Treasury and Resources and other Ministers to identify, first of all, what the funding gap is and identify significant funds, not simply the £120,000 that keeps us treading water but to identify meaningful funds so that significant provision and improvement can be made in the area of respite care for these parents who seem to be going through the same problems year in, year out without any effective government response to resolve the underlying issue of bed space and respite provision?

The Deputy of Trinity :

I am happy to meet with any Minister, including the Minister for Treasury and Resources. A lot of work is going to still continue to be done in partnership with these families. I met them only before Christmas to look forward to how we can help these young families as they get older. As I said, there is a service users group as well as the Special Needs Advisory Panel. Senator Routier has set up a disability panel. Their voice is being heard.

3. The Connétable of St. John of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the currentpay and conditions of Condor Ferries' crew and the recent industrial action taken by staff:

Would the Minister advise whether the current pay and conditions of Condor Ferries' crews were a consideration when the decision was made to extend the company's permit to operate car and passenger ferry services to and from the Island and, if not, why not, given the recent industrial action or the current industrial action by staff?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):

The decision to amend the air and sea transport policy that I addressed in a statement on 4th December 2012 allowed for a ramp permit to be awarded to Condor Ferries for a 5-year period, commencing 1st January this year. That decision was made to allow car and passenger ferry services to continue lawfully while work was undertaken to find a long-term solution for car, passenger and freight ferry services to the U.K. and France. Pay and conditions for crew are carefully regulated through the marine authorities to which Condor is accountable, including D.N.V. (Det Norske Veritas) and the Bahamas flag, which is recognised as one of the top 10 flag state authorities worldwide. Condor Ferries meets or exceeds all of its regulatory obligations, including the Maritime Labour Convention which is a key component of its permit to operate. I am assured the pay and conditions that Condor pays all its crews, regardless of residency, is compliant with legislation and benchmarks favourably with other ferry companies. Indeed, prior to this current dispute, Condor Ferries has been strike-free and has enjoyed good industrial relations with its workforce.