States Meeting Transcript - 8th September 2015

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT

TUESDAY, 8th SEPTEMBER 2015

COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER ......................................7

1. The Deputy Bailiff :......................................................................7

1. H.E. The Lieutenant Governor – welcome...............................................7
2. Lieutenant Governor of Guernsey - tribute...............................................7
3. Greffier of the States designate – welcome to Dr. Mark Egan............................7

PETITIONS.......................................................................................7

2. Deputy R. Labey of St. Helier – presentation of a petition on behalf of the residents of La Collette Low Rise, Green Street and Havre des Pas..................................7

2.1 Deputy R. Labey of St. Helier:...........................................................7

QUESTIONS......................................................................................8

3. Written Questions........................................................................8

1. DEPUTY P.D. MCLINTON OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING PERSONS REGISTERED WITH SOCIAL SECURITY WHO ARE FOUND GUILTY OF COMMITTING A CRIMINAL OFFENCE:................8
2. DEPUTY J.A. MARTIN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING TENANTS ON THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING GATEWAY:.........8
3. DEPUTY J.A. MARTIN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING STANDARDS APPLICABLE TO THE OPERATION OF FUEL FARMS:......................................................10
4. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING REFUGEES CLAIMING ASYLUM: ..................................10
5. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE ACCOMMODATION COMPONENT OF INCOME SUPPORT:.............................................................................11
6. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING VOLUNTARY REDUNDANCIES IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR:..............................................................................13
7. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING MEETINGS HELD WITH UNION REPRESENTATIVES AND OTHER ORGANISATIONS:....................................................................13
8. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING CHANGES IN THE VOLUNTARY

SECTOR ARISING FROM SAVINGS OUTLINED IN THE MEDIUM TERM FINANCIAL PLAN:...................................................................15

9. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING CHANGES TO GRANTS AND SUBSIDIES DETAILED IN THE ANNEX TO THE MEDIUM TERM FINANCIAL PLAN:......15
10. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING GRANTS AND SUBSIDIES DETAILED IN THE ANNEX TO THE MEDIUM TERM FINANCIAL PLAN:.......................16
11. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE PROJECTED GROWTH IN TAX FUNDED BENEFITS DETAUILED IN THE ANNEX TO THE MEDIUM TERM FINANCIAL PLAN:..................................................................................17
12. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING STAFFING CHANMGES IN THE DEPARTMENT:.......................................................................19
13. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF H.M. ATTORNEY GENERAL REGARDING THE ROLE OF AN AMICUS CURIAE IN COURT PROCEEDINGS:.20

4. Oral Questions...........................................................................21

1. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding arrests made in relation to Operation Whistle:........................................................21 Deputy K.L. Moore of St. Peter (The Minister for Home Affairs):............................21

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................21
2. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................21
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................22

2. Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Social Security regarding the amount lost by pensioners as a result of proposed cuts to income support and other benefits: ..........22 Deputy S.J. Pinel of St. Clement (The Minister for Social Security):..........................22

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................22
2. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier:....................................................23
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................23
4. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier:.....................................................23

5. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................23
6. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:.......................................................24
7. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................24
8. Deputy A.D. Lewis of St. Helier:.......................................................24
9. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................24
10. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................25

3. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding teaching vacancies:.....................................................................25 Deputy R.G. Bryans of St. Helier (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):..........25

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................25
2. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of St. Saviour:.................................................26
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................26
4. Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour:.....................................................26
5. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :................................................................27
6. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................27

4. Deputy M.R. Higgins of the Chief Minister regarding officers appointed to liaise with the Committee of Inquiry for document provision: .........................................27 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................28

1. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................28
2. Senator Z.A. Cameron:.................................................................28

3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................28
4. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................29
   5. Deputy S.Y. Mézec of St. Helier of the Chief Minister regarding possible strike action by some public sector unions:..............................................................29 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................29

1. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................29
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................29
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................30
4. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................30

6. Deputy J.A. Hilton of St. Helier of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the number of children on the At Risk' register: .......................................30 Senator A.K.F. Green (The Minister for Health and Social Services):........................30

1. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................31
2. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................31

7. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding creativity and innovation in education:..................................................32 Deputy R.G. Bryans (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):........................32

1. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :................................................................32
2. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :................................................................32

8. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Chief Minister regarding the Medium Term Financial Plan and raising additional revenues from the wealthy:......................................33 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................33

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................33
2. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................33
3. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................34
4. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................34
5. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................35
6. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................35

9. Deputy M.R. Higgins of Her Majesty's Attorney General regarding the process for obtaining restricted court reports containing personal information: .....................36 Mr. R.J. MacRae , Q.C., H.M. Attorney General:..............................................36

1. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................36
2. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................36

10. Deputy J.A. Hilton of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the current waiting time for the dermatology department:..........................................37 Senator A.K.F. Green (The Minister for Health and Social Services):........................37

1. Deputy J.A. Hilton:..................................................................37
2. Deputy J.A. Hilton:..................................................................37

STATEMENTS ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY........................38

5. The Chief Minister - Statement regarding the migrant crisis ..........................38

5.1 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):................................................38

1. Deputy M.J. Norton of St. Brelade:.....................................................39
2. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................39
3. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................39

QUESTIONS -resumption.......................................................................40

6. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for Health and Social Services 40

1. Deputy R. Labey : ......................................................................40 Senator A.K.F. Green (The Minister for Health and Social Services):........................40

1. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................40
2. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................41

2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................41

6.2.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................41

3. Deputy R.J. Renouf of St. Ouen:........................................................42

6.3.1 The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................42

4. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................42

6.4.1 Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................42

5. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :................................................................43
6. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................43

6.6.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................43

7. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................43

6.7.1 The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................43

8. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................44
9. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................44

7. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Chief Minister............................44

1. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................44 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................44
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................45

7.2.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................45

3. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................45

PUBLIC BUSINESS.............................................................................46

8. La Collette Low Rise: protection of open space petition (P.78/2015)..................46

8.1 Deputy R. Labey : ......................................................................46

1. Deputy S.G. Luce of St. Martin : ........................................................53
2. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of St. Lawrence ..............................................55
3. Senator A.K.F. Green: ..................................................................55
4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................56
5. Senator Z.A. Cameron:.................................................................58
6. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................59
7. Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity :..........................................................61

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED..................................................62 LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT................................................................62

8. Deputy S.M. Wickenden of St. Helier:..................................................62
9. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................63
10. Deputy S.M. Brée of St. Clement:...................................................64
11. Connétable M.P.S. Le Troquer of St. Martin : ........................................65
12. Connétable J.M. Refault of St. Peter:................................................66
13. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................67
14. Deputy D. Johnson of St. Mary : .....................................................69
15. Connétable P.B. Le Sueur of Trinity :................................................69
16. Deputy A.D. Lewis : .................................................................70
17. Deputy M.J. Norton: ................................................................72

18. Connétable C.H. Taylor of St. John:.................................................72
19. Deputy P.D. McLinton of St. Saviour:...............................................73
20. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier : ............................................74
21. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :....................................................75
22. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:.............................................................76
23. Deputy R. Labey :....................................................................77

9. Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006 and Immigration Act 2014: extension of certain sections to Jersey (P.64/2015)................................................79

9.1 The Deputy of St. Peter (The Minister for Home Affairs - rapporteur):.................80

10. Greville Bathe Fund: appointment of Jurat (P.66/2015)...............................82

10.1 Senator A.J.H. McLean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):....................82

1. Deputy J.A. Hilton:..................................................................82
2. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................82
3. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:.............................................................83

11. Draft Intellectual Property (Registered Rights) (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Jersey) (P.69/2015)...............................................................................83

1. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (Assistant Chief Minister - rapporteur):..........................84

1. Deputy J.M. Maçon:.................................................................86
2. Deputy J.A. Hilton:..................................................................86
3. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................86

2. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................87
3. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................88
4. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................89
5. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................90

1. Deputy S.M. Wickenden:............................................................91
2. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................91

12. States of Jersey Complaints Panel: renewal of membership (P.71/2015)..............92

12.1 Connétable L. Norman of St. Clement (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee): ............................................................................92

1. The Connétable of St. Martin : .......................................................92
2. The Connétable of St. Clement:......................................................93

13. Draft Public Employees (Contributory Retirement Scheme) (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.79/2015)...................................93

13.1 Senator A.K.F. Green ( Deputy Chief Minister - rapporteur):............................93

14. Draft Air and Sea Ports (Incorporation) (Jersey) Law (Appointed Day) Act 201- (P.81/2015)...............................................................................94

14.1 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources - rapporteur):......95

1. The Connétable of St. Peter:.........................................................95
2. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:.............................................................96

15. Draft Air and Sea Ports (Incorporation) (Transfer) (Jersey) Regulations (P.80/201-)96

1. Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources - rapporteur):......96
2. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:................................................................98

16. Ports of Jersey Limited: Approval of First Board and Terms of Office (P.68/2015)..99

16.1 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources) :..................99

1. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :............................................................100
2. Deputy S.M. Brée: .................................................................100
3. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:............................................................101

17. Draft Veterinary Surgeons (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) Law 201- (P.83/2015) .....102

17.1 The Deputy of St. Martin (The Minister for Planning and Environment):..............102

1. Deputy M. Tadier :..................................................................103
2. The Deputy of St. Martin : ..........................................................104

18. Draft Residential Tenancy (Deposit Scheme) (Amendment) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.84/2015)..............................................................................104

1. The Deputy of Trinity (The Minister for Housing):....................................105

1. Deputy A.D. Lewis : ................................................................106
2. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :................................................................107
3. Senator A.K.F. Green:..............................................................107
4. Deputy M. Tadier :..................................................................108
5. Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. John : ...................................................109
6. Deputy S.M. Wickenden:..........................................................109

2. The Deputy of Trinity :................................................................110

18.2.1 The Deputy of St. John:............................................................111

19. Jersey Overseas Aid Commission: appointment of non-States Commissioner (P.85/2015)..............................................................................112

19.1 The Deputy of Grouville :..............................................................113

20. Jersey Employment and Discrimination Tribunal: appointment of lay members (P.88/2015)..............................................................................113

20.1 Deputy S.J. Pinel (The Minister for Social Security):..................................113

21. Draft Financial Services Ombudsman (Jersey) Law 2014 (Appointed Day) (No. 3) Act 201- (P.92/2015)........................................................................114

21.1 Senator L.J. Farnham (The Minister for Economic Development):....................114

ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS ..................115

22. The Connétable of St. Clement (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee):...115

1. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:.............................................................115
2. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:..............................................................115

COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER ....................................115

23. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II – longest-reigning British monarch ................115

ADJOURNMENT..............................................................................116

[9:30]

The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer. COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER

1. The Deputy Bailiff :

Firstly, matters under item A.

1. H.E. The Lieutenant Governor – welcome

On behalf of Members I would like, in the customary way, to welcome His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor to the Chamber this morning. [Approbation]

2. Lieutenant Governor of Guernsey - tribute

On a more sombre note, Members will be aware of the sudden death of the Lieutenant Governor of Guernsey, His Excellency Air Marshal Sir Peter Walker . The Bailiff issued the following message on behalf of the Assembly: "It is a great shock to hear of the sudden passing of His Excellency Air Marshal Peter Walker , Lieutenant Governor of Guernsey. Air Marshal Walker was in his last year of service in Guernsey and he has been assiduous in his work on behalf of that Bailiwick. On behalf of the States and people of Jersey I would like to express our deepest sympathy to Mrs. Walker and her family who we will hold in our thoughts and prayers and likewise to extend our condolences to the people of Guernsey on their loss." Although he was not a Member of this Assembly we do not therefore stand but we will pause for a moment as a mark of respect and sympathy. [Silence]

3. Greffier of the States designate – welcome to Dr. Mark Egan

Lastly, Members will have noted that P.101 has been lodged by the chairman of P.P.C. (Privileges and Procedures Committee) seeking the consent of the Assembly to the appointment of Dr. Mark Egan as the next Greffier of the States when the present Greffier retires in December. The proposed appointment follows a competitive process overseen by the Jersey Appointments Commission, as a result of which Dr. Egan was selected unanimously by a panel comprising the Bailiff , the chairman of P.P.C., the Clerk of Tynwald, and the director of the Employee Relations and Organisational Development of the Human Resources Department. When the Bailiff telephoned him to tell him the outcome of his application Dr. Egan immediately suggested that he should come over to meet Members informally, an offer which was much appreciated. The Greffier tells me that this has been fixed for 5.30 p.m. this evening in the Members' facilities room and I am sure Members will wish to be there and take that opportunity if they can. Dr. Egan arrived in the Island last night and is in the public gallery to watch some of the States business today before going to the Greffe to be introduced there and I would ask Members to welcome him in the usual way. [Approbation]

PETITIONS

2. Deputy R. Labey of St. Helier – presentation of a petition on behalf of the residents of La Collette Low Rise, Green Street and Havre des Pas

2.1 Deputy R. Labey of St. Helier :

This petition, 549-strong, is in the name of the residents of La Collette Low Rise - some of them - the Green Street residents and Havre des Pas residents and it was collected locally without fanfare over a few weeks earlier in the summer. The green open space at La Collette benefits from 2 layers of protection in the Island Plan. The Strategic Plan has one of its repeatedly stated aims to preserve the green, open spaces in St. Helier. It is quite wrong therefore that the outlying planning

permission being sought by Andium Homes to redevelop the La Collette Low Rise seeks to replace the protected green area with 5 storeys of apartments. The petitioners say that the protected open space must be upheld in law. I have pleasure in laying the petition before the Assembly.

The Deputy Bailiff :

In accordance with Standing Orders the matter is therefore referred to the Minister for consideration.

[9:45]

QUESTIONS

3. Written Questions

1. DEPUTY P.D. MCLINTON OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING PERSONS REGISTERED WITH SOCIAL SECURITY WHO ARE FOUND GUILTY OF COMMITTING A CRIMINAL OFFENCE:

Question

Can the Minister provide:

1. the number of people found guilty of committing a criminal offence within one year of registering with Social Security from 2010 to date;
2. a breakdown of the above offences into categories such as shoplifting, drug offences, violent conduct and so on;
3. an estimated cost to the Island of dealing with the above offences;
4. a breakdown of how many of those persons listed under (a) above were found to have a criminal record prior to their arrival in the Island?

Answer

The States of Jersey Police does not hold sufficient data in respect of this matter. It is understood that the Social Security Department receive between 60 and 80 enquiries per day from individuals wishing to register for employment in Jersey. To answer this question, it would be necessary to obtain the names and personal details of all individuals registered for employment and compare them against the Police National Database. However, this is not possible, as this would be an improper use of the Police National Database and a breach of data protection given that the checks would not be for a policing purpose'.

2. DEPUTY J.A. MARTIN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING TENANTS ON THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING GATEWAY:

Question

Can the Minister provide a breakdown of how many tenants on the Affordable Housing Gateway have been moved so that their home can be refurbished and how many tenants have been moved due to family circumstances, such as under or over occupying of a property, or urgent medical need, for example, since 1st January 2015?

Answer

Between 1st January 2015 and 2nd September 2015, statistics from the housing gateway shows that the following numbers of households were moved for the reasons stated;

The Housing Gateway does not hold statistics from those moving so that their  home can  be refurbished,  but  information  from  the  Affordable  Housing  Providers  shows that  between  1st January  2015  and  2nd  September  2015,  1261 households  were  moved  for  this  reason.  This decanting process is managed from within their existing stock.

3. DEPUTY J.A. MARTIN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING STANDARDS APPLICABLE TO THE OPERATION OF FUEL FARMS:

Question

Can the Minster confirm that all safety reports for the future use of La Collette have been based on the latest U.K. standards and international regulations applicable to the operation of fuel farms and the areas adjacent to them, published in June 2015, some 10 years after the explosion at Buncefield Oil Storage Depot?

Answer

All work at La Collette with a current planning consent, including future developments, has been permissioned in accordance with the relevant UK and International Standards for developments near hazardous installations.

Following the Buncefield explosion in 2005, the States of Jersey commissioned Atkins to undertake an assessment of the risks associated with the major hazard installations and the implications for future land use planning at La Collette. In 2013 the States of Jersey requested that Atkins update the previous overall risk assessment for La Collette to help ensure any planning decisions remained consistent with best practice and decision makers were fully informed of the risks. Consideration was also given to ensure that the integrated total risk associated with all incremental developments over the coming years, on top of existing risks, will remain within acceptable limits and be adequately controlled.

Since the introduction of the international directive Seveso III and implementation of that directive via the UK's COMAH 2015 Regulations, further advice has been sought from Atkins who have indicated that these changes in legislation would not have any significant impact on any of the land use planning studies, previously undertaken by Atkins at La Collette.

4. DEPUTYS.Y.MÉZECOFST.HELIEROFTHEMINISTERFORHOMEAFFAIRS REGARDING REFUGEES CLAIMING ASYLUM:

Question

Could the Minister outline what procedures, if any, are in place and what action would be taken should a refugee or individual intending to claim asylum reach Jersey?

Answer

Various Conventions in relation to refugees/asylum claims have been extended to Jersey. In particular:

The 1951 Refugee Convention, which was extended to Jersey in 1955.

The Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees ("the New York Protocol"), which was extended to Jersey in 1996.

In a letter to the United Kingdom (UK) Home Office dated 21 September 1995, Jersey indicated its willingness to be a party to the Dublin Convention. The Dublin Convention determines the State responsible for examining applications for asylum lodged in one of the Member States of the European Union (EU).

In addition, the United Nations Handbook on Procedures and Criteria for Determining Refugee Status recommends that contracting States meet certain basic requirements for dealing with applicants. In the UK, rules have been drawn up covering the necessary procedures to be followed. There are no equivalent procedures in Jersey, but a practice has been agreed with the UK Home Office that Jersey will obtain assistance and advice with any such applications.

In relation to asylum claims, the UK Home Office has agreed that any asylum claims made in Jersey should be notified to the UK Home Office for consideration.

As far as asylum applications received from claimants arriving from another EU State are concerned, the introduction of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999, coupled with the provisions of the Dublin Convention, enabled the UK to treat all EU States as safe third countries for the purposes of asylum. On the basis that the 1999 Act and the Convention apply in Jersey, the Island has followed the same British policy. Consequently a passenger who claims asylum on entering Jersey from an EU State, where he/she would have had the opportunity to claim asylum, should be returned to that EU State.

5. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE ACCOMMODATION COMPONENT OF INCOME SUPPORT:

Question

Could the Minister provide a detailed annual breakdown for the past five years outlining -

1. the total expenditure for the accommodation component of Income Support
2. how much of this was paid directly to Andium Homes/ the Housing department; and,
3. how much of this was paid directly to private landlords?

Answer

In interpreting this answer, it is important to establish from the outset that the total expenditure of the accommodation component of Income Support is not the same as the total amount of expenditure on accommodation on the part of households receiving Income Support. Neither does it equate to the total value of payments made directly to landlords.

1. Whilst the accommodation component of Income Support reflects the rent charged to the tenant, only a minority of Income Support claimants will receive the full value of the accommodation component in their weekly benefit. If the household receives income from wages, pensions or other benefits, then the Income Support payment is reduced proportionately. The Department has developed a method of allocating costs within the various components, which allows an analysis of total cost to be carried out. This is achieved by dividing the actual Income Support benefit received by a household in proportion to the gross value of each

of the components that the household is eligible for, to allocate a specific net value to each of the components. This figure has been reported in annual reports, which have been published since 20112.

2. and (c) The payment system of Income Support is designed to prioritise the direct payment of rent above other allocations of benefit entitlement. Most IS households will have their own income which is supplemented by Income Support. If the weekly Income Support amount is less than the weekly rent, the full value of Income Support will be paid to the landlord. For example, a family with one adult working full- time, and living in a three-bedroom property with Andium homes, might hypothetically qualify for a weekly Income Support payment of around £100, based on the working adult's income. In this situation, the full weekly value of their Income Support would be paid direct to Andium Homes.

Direct payments to landlords may also include expenses that are not included in the accommodation component but are nonetheless due to the landlord, such as service charges and fees for parking spaces. These are paid direct from benefit for the convenience of both the customer and the landlord.

In a small minority of cases, other benefit payments (such as Invalidity Benefit) are also paid to Andium.

For these reasons, it is not possible to make any direct correlation between the payments made to Andium and other housing providers, and the value of the accommodation component within Income Support.

Whilst the great majority of Andium tenants will have some or all of their Income Support benefit allocated directly to Andium, this is not case with private sector tenants. These claims are treated on a case-by-case basis, with some landlords receiving direct payments and in other cases, the payment is made to the tenant.

• These figures show payments made during each year and are not directly comparable to the accounts. They do not include refunds or any accounting accruals.
• Direct Payments to Andium Homes can include service charges.

2 This calculation was first undertaken in 2011 and it would be difficult to replicate this calculation in respect of the historic data held for 2010.

• Private landlords includes direct payments to all other landlords, including Housing Trusts and Parishes.

6. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING VOLUNTARY REDUNDANCIES IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR:

Question

Could the Minister outline what the most common reason has been for the rejection of applications for voluntary redundancy?

Answer

In considering applications received for voluntary release including voluntary redundancy, severance and early retirement, the main reason for applications being declined were that they did not provide any significant saving for the States of Jersey or were frontline postholders, such as doctors, nurses or teachers, whose losses would directly affect services to the public.

The following criteria were taken into consideration when reviewing all applications:

• Loss of Post - the impact of the loss of the post on the delivery of services and other demands
• Loss of Individual - whether the skills and experience of an individual can be covered by others
• Savings - the recurring savings that can be made weighed against the financial cost of awarding a payment
• Payback - whether the payback period on the settlements would be returned in a reasonable timeframe
• Closeness to normal retirement age
• Department Priority - whether the case would enable significant change or restructure, which would otherwise be delayed, that will release savings.

7. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING MEETINGS HELD WITH UNION REPRESENTATIVES AND OTHER ORGANISATIONS:

Question

Could the Chief Minister state the number of official face to face meetings he has had with representatives from the following organisations since he was appointed in 2011:

1. the Jersey Chamber of Commerce
2. the Jersey Institute of Directors
3. Jersey Finance
4. Unite the Union
5. the Jersey branch of the National Union of Teachers
6. the Jersey branch of the National Association of Schoolmasters Union of Women Teachers (NASUWT)

(v) the Jersey Nurses Association?

Answer

Meetings with the Jersey Chamber of Commerce and Jersey Institute of Directors Since taking office in late 2011 I have held regular meetings with representatives from the Chamber of Commerce and the Institute of Directors to keep abreast of developments among the business community.

Meetings with Jersey Finance

Jersey Finance was formed in 2001 to promote Jersey as an international financial centre. It is run as a not-for-profit organisation, and is funded by the Jersey government and members of the local finance industry.

I  meet the Chief Executive on a monthly basis to keep informed about developments in this important industry for the island. During the requested time period this amounted to approximately 45 meetings.

Meetings with union and staff representatives

The Chief Minister and members of the States Employment Board (SEB) delegate operational employment matters, including face to face meetings with all public sector unions, to the Chief Executive  and  senior  Human  Resource  Officers  in  the  Chief  Ministers  Department.  These professional employee relations staff work in liaison with Chief Officers and their departmental teams.

Such officers acting on behalf of the Chief Minister and the SEB have held more than 200 face to face meetings with the named unions during this period. These meetings have covered such matters as:

• Workforce Modernisation including, WFM Programme Board, job evaluation, policies, terms and conditions of service
• Pay review and related meetings
• Framework Agreement and other direct partnership forum meetings
• Ad hoc and Departmental meetings with specific representatives on specific employment issues

During that time the Chief Minister, in his capacity as chair of SEB, has personally attended three official meetings with Unite, one with the Jersey branch of the National Union of Teachers, two with the Jersey branch of the National Association of Schoolmasters Union of Women Teachers and two with the Jersey Nursing Association (JNA). (On both occasions the Royal College of Nursing Representative attended on behalf of the JNA, supported by Unite).

The Chief Minister and SEB receive regular updates on matters affecting all public sector unions to ensure that appropriate actions are taken by the Employer.

Other meetings

I also attend meetings with many organisations, including charities and other groups from the voluntary and community sector.

8. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING CHANGES IN THE VOLUNTARY SECTOR ARISING FROM SAVINGS OUTLINED IN THE MEDIUM TERM FINANCIAL PLAN:

Question

Will the Minister detail for members the savings planned in the 12 areas listed on page 83 of the Annex to the Medium Term Financial Plan including any changes to grants or service delivery in the voluntary and community sectors over the period 2013 to 2016?

Answer

The Department has embarked on a significant cost reduction programme called Safely Removing Costs'. This aims to deliver savings in the region of £12M in 2016, in order to ensure a balanced departmental budget.

The detailed plans for the workstreams are currently being finalised. They include, for example, reducing spend on supplies, and reducing headcount where it is safe to do so. This is in line with the States Reform programme.

Each area of the Department's spend is being reviewed, including the funding for off-Island providers and organisations on-Island that receive funding through grants or agreements. The detail of this is being worked through and meetings are taking place with these organisations in order to explain the financial challenge and identify areas where costs can be reduced. Some organisations have already suggested cost reductions for their funding, demonstrating effective partnership working with us.

Some difficult decisions will need to be made in the coming months. The Department is always seeking the most effective use of its resources and where funding has to be reduced, alternative arrangements will be explored, with patient safety always paramount.

9. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING CHANGES TO GRANTS AND SUBSIDIES DETAILED IN THE ANNEX TO THE MEDIUM TERM FINANCIAL PLAN: Question

Will the Minister detail for members changes to the grants and subsidies figure given on page 56 of the Annex to the Medium Term Financial Plan including comparison with the years 2013 to 2016?

Answer

On page 56 of the draft Annex to the Medium Term Financial Plan grants are stated as £13,474,600 for 2016 and £9,400,900. The difference is mainly due to the creation of Visit Jersey with a new grant of £5m for 2016 and a reduction of TDF (£500k) – A detailed breakdown of grants for 2015 and 2016 (including comparison) is attached.

The total of grants paid in 2013 was £8,951,920 and 2014 was £15,628,175.

There was an increase in grants paid compared to 2013 of £6.7 million mainly due to an increase in funding for following:

• Jersey Innovation Fund £5.0 million

• Jersey Finance £0.9 million

• Digital Jersey £0.3 million

• Route Development £0.2 million

• Skills Accelerator Scheme £0.2 million

• Cattle Testing £0.1 million and

• Fishing Industry £0.1 million

Comparison with budgets for 2013 and 2014 can be found on page 44 of the Annex to the Financial Report and Accounts

The grants for 2013 and 2014 are detailed in the States of Jersey financial report and accounts as follows:

2013 – Grants under £75,000 can be found on page 339 in the Annex to the Financial Report and Accounts

http://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20Annex %20to%20financial%20report%20and%20accounts%202013%202014514%20JMB.pdf

2013 – Grants over £75,000 can be found on page 154 in the Financial Report and Accounts

http://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20Financi alReportAccounts%202013%20JMB.pdf

2014 – Grants under £75,000 can be found on page 319 in the Annex to the Financial Report and Accounts

http://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20Annex %20to%20Financial%20Report%20and%20Accounts%202014%2020150609%20AM.pdf

2014 – Grants over £75,000 can be found on page 155 in the Financial Report and Accounts

http://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20Financi al%20Report%20and%20Accounts%202014%2020150609%20AM.pdf

10. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING GRANTS AND SUBSIDIES DETAILED IN THE ANNEX TO THE MEDIUM TERM FINANCIAL PLAN: Question

Will the Minister detail for members changes to the grants and subsidies figure given on page 66 of the Annex to the Medium Term Financial Plan including comparison with the years 2013 to 2016?

Answer

Changes to grants and subsidies payments for the period 2013 to 2016 are summarised as follows:

11. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY  REGARDING  THE  PROJECTED  GROWTH  IN  TAX  FUNDED BENEFITS DETAUILED IN THE ANNEX TO THE MEDIUM TERM FINANCIAL PLAN:

Question

Will the Minister explain to members the assumptions and calculations that underpin the projected growth in tax funded benefits from £82m to £94m over the period 2015 – 2019, as shown on page 97 of the Annex to the Medium Term Financial Plan?

Answer

Please note that the 2015 figure is £83m. This figure is based on the April forecast for 2015, and takes into account the expected underspend by the end of the year. The underspend for 2015 relates to the MTFP  2013-2015  forecast for  Income Support  which was  based on a  higher  level of unemployment than has actually been experienced.

Page 97 of the Annex to the Medium Term Financial Plan includes the following graph which shows the growth in the original budget and the impact of the proposed benefit changes.

The  forecasts for  2016-2019 were calculated through  applying  increases  based on the central economic assumptions to the relevant benefits in line with legislation along with growth figures extrapolated from the population model. Other factors such as projected unemployment, increases to the accommodation component in line with the agreed social housing policy and the introduction of a non-means tested child disability component have also been incorporated.

The relevant central economic assumptions (April 2015) used are:

2016 2017 2018 2019 RPI 3.1% 3.1% 3.3% 3.3% AE 3.0% 4.0% 3.0% 3.0%

The net impact in each year is a growth of: 2016 – 3.2%

2017 – 3.6%

2018 – 3.0%

2019 – 3.1%

As noted in the MTFP Annex, one of the financial pressures facing the States is the range of extra costs associated with the growth in the number of people aged 65 and above and one of the key strategic aims of this Council of Ministers is to ensure that we have a health system that can continue to provide good quality care to an ageing population.

In order to allow funds to be available to meet the costs of demographic pressures within the health service, the Department has identified changes to benefits to support the funding of the strategic aims approved by the States Assembly and achieve the agreed public funding position by 2019. In total the Social Security Department has been asked to reduce its anticipated spend on tax funded benefits by £10.0 million by 2019.

These funds will be available to the Treasury and Resources Department as part of the overall savings target, to help to meet the increasing cost of Health and Social Services across the whole range of health services provided to older people.

Benefit changes were considered using the following criteria:

• Promote financial independence – use changes in benefit to promote activities that will support the financial independence of claimants, and protect benefits which are supporting the financial independence of claimants;
• Improve targeting of benefits – change benefits in areas where public money is not specifically targeted to vulnerable groups; and
• Minimise individual impact – spread changes over larger groups of claimants, rather than a few individuals.

12. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING STAFFING CHANMGES IN THE DEPARTMENT:

Question

Will the Minister give details and justification for the removal of 227.7 FTE from staffing numbers in the department in 2015 (page 85 in the Annex to the Medium Term Financial Plan) and will he further inform members what impact phasing of the delivery of P.82/2012 (Health and Social Services: A New Way Forward') has had on staffing over the intervening period and whether further phasing is planned for 2016?

Answer

The 227.7 FTE removed from the staff budget does not represent any change in either the number of staff currently employed or future plans as set out in the MTFP. It is simply bringing the approved FTE limit in line with the Department's funded staffing budget and plans included in MTFP2.

As the Department prepared its submissions for MTFP2, a review exercise was undertaken to reconcile the budgeted FTE and the actual FTE requirement at the end of MTFP1. The 227.7 FTE reduction represents the result of this reconciliation which was agreed by the Department, the States central HR function and then approved by the Treasurer of the States.

The original FTE limit was approved in the first MTFP and was based on an historic approved FTE limit and estimated future staffing requirements over the three-year MTFP period. This included prudent estimates of future staffing requirements; the MTFP1 budget estimated that 70% of the 2% inflation-linked funding for HSSD would be required for staffing, and that all P82/2012 initiatives would be delivered by HSS staff. In practice, whilst some of the 2% funding has been invested in staffing, it has predominantly been invested in non-pay cost pressures (such as rising drugs budgets, commissioned local packages of care and specialist UK care). In addition, a number of P82/2012 initiatives have been delivered by third-party providers (eg the rapid response service has been delivered by Family Nursing and Home Care) rather than by the Department.

The phasing of P82/2012 in 2015 has had an inevitable impact on staffing by reducing the number of staff required in 2015. Subject to funding approval in MTFP 2, these services should be fully implemented in early 2016, and therefore the staffing will increase in order to deliver these services.

Plans have been produced for 2016 as part of the preparation for MTFP2. The implementation of these plans will depend on the funding allocation as a result of MTFP 2. Further phasing of P.82/2012 investment is likely as a result of the reduced growth funding available.

13. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF H.M. ATTORNEY GENERAL REGARDING THE ROLE OF AN AMICUS CURIAE IN COURT PROCEEDINGS: Question

Will H.M. Attorney General explain to members in detail the role of an Amicus Curiae in Jersey Court proceedings together with full details of his powers, his duties to the parties concerned and the procedures he must follow to ensure there is an equality of treatment?

Answer

The Court may request the Acting Bâtonnier (or in a civil matter, the Attorney General) to appoint an advocate as an Amicus Curiae in cases where it considers it necessary for the administration of justice. For example, although the legal aid scheme ensures that in many criminal cases a defendant has representation, if for any reason a defendant is unrepresented, the Court sometimes appoints an Amicus Curiae. Although it is much more infrequent, an Amicus Curiae may also be appointed in civil cases if, for example, there is an important point of law or principle to be determined, or where it is considered necessary to deal with issues expeditiously and fairly.

The duty of an Amicus Curiae is to the Court, not to the party which s/he may be assisting. The Amicus Curiae is not responsible for formulating a party's arguments and is not expected or required to provide the party with legal advice. As the Amicus Curiae is not representing the party in the same way that an advocate would represent his or her client, s/he will not be able to control the submissions that are made before the Court by the assisted party.

However, the Amicus Curiae will convey the submissions that the party wishes to make or clarify such submissions in a way that is of most benefit to the Court. The Amicus Curiae may also be called upon by the Court to deal with any points of law that may arise and may be required to provide advice on the procedural aspects of the case should assistance be required by the assisted party.

If the Amicus Curiae is only asked to address the Court on legal issues and not to assist a particular party, then again the Amicus Curiae owes his/her duty to the Court and must address the Court on any issue on which the Court wishes to be assisted. The Attorney General as partie publique may (in effect) fulfil the role of Amicus Curiae in certain civil and charity cases.

As to "equality of treatment", if an applicant is unrepresented at Court proceedings, an Amicus Curiae does not fulfil the role that an advocate would fulfil had the party chosen to appoint his or her own lawyer. But, the appointment of an Amicus Curiae provides a safeguard to ensure that arguments are properly considered, and the submissions that the assisted party wishes to put to the Court are presented in a manner that is most helpful to the Court and most advantageous to the party.

4. Oral Questions Senator I.J. Gorst :

Excuse me, Sir, before we start could I .. Members will be aware that I am due to make a statement on the ongoing migrant crisis under Statements on a Matter of Official Responsibility. I have spoken to Deputy Mézec and I am grateful for his agreeing to withdraw his question and therefore I ask the Assembly if I could take the statement prior to Questions without notice, which would give Members not only the 10 minutes questioning on the statement but also potential for 15 other minutes to question on that subject as well if they so wish.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Thank you, Chief Minister. Do Members agree that we will take the Chief Minister's statement in the way that he suggested before Questions without notice? Very well. Thank you, Chief Minister.

The Deputy Bailiff :

I have also agreed that Deputy Tadier 's questions may be taken first in the list because he has obligations outside of the Assembly later on this morning. So, Deputy , if we start with question 5.

1. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding arrests made in relation to Operation Whistle:

Can I thank Members and those involved for the accommodation? Could the Minister please inform Members how many arrests have been made in relation to Operation Whistle and state whether any allegations have been made against former Prime Minister Sir Edward Heath, which relate to his time in the Island and whether any investigations are taking place in this regard

Deputy K.L. Moore of St. Peter (The Minister for Home Affairs):

There have been 4 arrests arising from the Operation Whistle investigation and 2 further voluntary interviews have been conducted with individuals subject to allegations of abuse. The States of Jersey Police have received one allegation made against the former Prime Minister, Sir Edward Heath that took place in Jersey. This is being investigated jointly with the Wiltshire Constabulary, which has been appointed as the lead force. The Independent Jersey Care Inquiry has been kept apprised of all developments.

1. Deputy M. Tadier :

Could the Minister give more information about the allegation that has been made in Jersey about the former named Prime Minister and when this was made in particular and whether that resulted .. it is a new allegation since Operation Whistle was set up?

The Deputy of St. Peter:

I am afraid that, as Members will appreciate, this is an operational matter and I do not have operational responsibility for the police and those are merely details that I do not have in my remit, and I am unable to answer that question.

2. Deputy M. Tadier :

It seems to me that we know that parallel investigations are going on in the U.K. (United Kingdom) and if I understand correctly it was really as a result of those investigations in the U.K. that this Operation Whistle was opened up. Can the Minister state why the investigation seems to have been relatively low profile if the police should be encouraging members of the public who might have been here at the time to come forward and give evidence, surely the publicity surrounding this case, at least locally, should be of a much more high profile nature?

The Deputy of St. Peter :

I think the operation has been relatively high profile, particularly over the summer, and in response to the publicity that has been nationwide in relation to Operation Hydrant.

3. Deputy M. Tadier :

Will the Minister confirm again in this public forum, as we have seen, I think, in the U.K. both from the police and perhaps from other individuals that there is an investigation going on. Anybody who has information about any high or low profile individuals who were in Jersey at the time of Sir Edward Heath and who may have information relating to any of that kind of nefarious activity should come forward and they will be given full support both by the Minister for Home Affairs and the Jersey Police?

The Deputy of St. Peter :

That is entirely the case. When this unit was established there were initially 6 members of staff placed in the unit. That staff quickly increased to 8 just to deal with the sheer volume of work that was coming forward. So Operation Whistle is very much an active piece of work that is being conducted by the States of Jersey Police and every allegation that is brought to them is taken very seriously.

2. Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Social Security regarding the amount lost by pensioners as a result of proposed cuts to income support and other benefits:

Will the Minister inform Members how much pensioners will lose on average from their weekly payment as a result of proposed cuts to income support and other benefits, and can the Minister also provide the maximum and minimum loss?

Deputy S.J. Pinel of St. Clement (The Minister for Social Security):

I am pleased to reassure Members that there are no plans to cut the total value of weekly benefits paid to pensioners who currently receive income support. Pensioners receiving income support will see their benefit remain at current levels. I am grateful for this opportunity to reassure those existing claimants that they will not see a cut in their total income, although I do acknowledge that we will not be able to increase most component rates during 2015 or 2016. However, pensioners and other income support claimants will still receive extra help with any rent increases during that time. In general terms, the benefit budget is not being cut rather it is being held level at its 2015 value and it is the cost of potential growth in the budget that is being removed. With the requirements to reduce the projected benefit budget by £10 million by 2019 I have applied 3 key principles to identify the changes that I have brought forward. The proposed changes are designed to support financial independence, improve targeting, minimise individual impact. I am also planning to increase the support available to low income pensioners through the 65-plus health scheme during 2016.

1. Deputy M. Tadier :

I am sure that pensioners will be reassured that the effective pay freeze that they will be receiving, which in their pockets and spending power will be a pay cut, will at least be helping them to achieve some kind of ideology that says they should be able to be more financially independent ..

The Deputy Bailiff :

Is there a question please? Deputy M. Tadier :

.. when they feel they are £9 worse off a week than average. Can the Minister confirm in monetary terms what the pay freeze, the benefit freeze for those who depend on the lifeline of income support in their elderly years, will be?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

The changes from a fixed earnings disregard will not affect any existing claimants. It is only for new claimants to the scheme to start from .. obviously agreed by the M.T.F.P. (Medium-Term Financial Plan) which will be 23 per cent of income disregard which brings it in line with earnings disregard.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier :

Is it not the case that pensioners dependent upon income support to prop up their standard of living, as a result of the changes to this regard, will be £9 a week .. new entrants will be £9 a week worse off than people on the pension scheme now? Is that not the case?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

For some pensioners on entry into the scheme, yes, that is the case, as the Deputy described. But they will not be worse off inasmuch as they will not have had the £55 earning disregard in the first place. So they will be entertaining the 23 per cent disregard and when, for existing claimants, the disregard equals the £55 or perhaps supersedes it they will then be entitled to claim that, whichever is the greater: the fixed sum or the disregard.

3. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Can the Minister confirm the change in the disregard which goes into the amount of money the pensioner can receive from income support goes from £55 fixed disregard to £46? That is £9 a week worse off in January for a new entrant than anybody joining the scheme in December. Is that not the case?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

I have just answered that question, to the effect that that is the case for new entrants.

4. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier :

The Minister is playing with words. Will she not accept that if you do not increase the pension to these people by inflation then it is a cut in real terms? Will the Minister admit that?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

There is an R.P.I. (Retail Price Index) pension rate for pensioners and the rates for pension has always been increased by either R.P.I. or average earnings, whichever happens to be the greater, and because R.P.I. has dropped considerably over the last few years both are now more or less in line - R.P.I. and average earnings - and pensioners will get their increase. There is no decrease at all. They will have their increase in October, as has always been the case.

5. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Again, the Minister is playing with words and just playing around it. The truth of the matter is over the next few years the period of time she is talking about having a freeze is effectively a cut. Why not come out and just say: "We are cutting the pension" and be honest to the public?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

This freeze or not raising the current levels is for 2 years until October 2017 and I think that is being perfectly honest and straightforward to say that is what we are doing. We are just not increasing. We are not cutting.

6. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier :

That is a very good point to come in on because that was exactly my question. Can the Minister not confirm that the actual living component to top up pensions has been frozen since 2013? This is the living component for heat, food, light, everything else the pensioners are not getting. The last Minister confirmed this as he was going out. Can the Minister confirm this will be a 5 or 6-year freeze on that living component?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

I think the Deputy is referring to the household bill of about £51 a week and that is going to be remaining at current levels, the same as the rest of the income support components. However, old- age pensioners do get the cold weather bonus which will fluctuate with the weather. If it is particularly cold then a larger bonus will be accorded to them.

7. Deputy J.A. Martin:

If the Minister does not have the information can she go back and check how many years has the living component on income support been frozen? It is not started in 2015 and will she distribute that figure, which I am sure is 2013 onwards, and that is where the money has been saved over the last 3 years and they want to carry it on for 5. So as Deputy Higgins says, this is not just a cut, you are freezing the money. But I would like it confirmed by the Minister when this started.

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

Yes, I will confirm that.

8. Deputy A.D. Lewis of St. Helier :

Pensioners feel somewhat attacked at the moment on a number of fronts. They have had notice of removal of Christmas bonuses, the notice also of television licences being removed. Could the Minister advise as to what consultation her department has done with this group of people, i.e. pensioners, before making these decisions? Although I support the need to redirect funds to where they are most needed, could she advise what consultation has occurred with this group to make sure that those that are most affected by the changes are compensated in some way?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

These are budget savings directed by the States of Jersey. It is not a consultation paper. There is a Household Income Distribution Survey being conducted at the moment, which I think is due to be published at the end of this year, which happens about every 5 years, which is an enormous piece of work.

[10:00]

We have been asked to make benefit cuts to the tune of £10 million and it is not just pensioners. While I understand exactly what the Deputy is saying, all the income support components have been reviewed across the board, so it is not just pensioners at all. In fact, the existing income support claimants who will lose money, as opposed to having it frozen, are not pensioners.

9. Deputy A.D. Lewis :

Is the Minister therefore confident that those that really need it in this age group will be adequately catered for, regardless of what is taken away at this point?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

Yes, I am. As I mentioned earlier, we are going to transfer some money back into the 65-plus health scheme which covers optical, dental and chiropody for over-65s, and also reassess that scheme, which I believe the delivery of the money is not accessible to all at the moment upfront. It has to be a capital upfront expenditure by the pensioner. We are going to be readdressing that so that we can turn that around. We feel that it is far more important that the pensioners should be targeted in this way with extra money, which covers their health.

10. Deputy M. Tadier :

Very much in the same theme of consultation. Does the Minister not think that not only the elderly feel hard done by by these cuts but also they feel cheated by never having been told about what was coming at the previous election when it must have been on the cards for the current Council of Ministers and those who eventually ended up in those positions? Will the Minister give an undertaking, I suppose, to wait for the results of consultation from these natural constituents to see how they will be affected before these, what I would call cuts, are put forward?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

No, there will not be any waiting because they are part of the Medium-Term Financial Plan, which is due to be debated on 6th October. We did not, as I mentioned to Deputy Lewis 's question, do consultation. It was not that sort of programme, but all groups affected were informed before this was publicly announced. It was certainly not on the agenda for the last election because this is the next Medium-Term Financial Plan.

3. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding teaching vacancies:

What a joy it is to be back. Would the Minister provide an annual breakdown for the last 5 years of how many advertised teaching vacancies remained unfilled each September and detail how many teaching posts were filled by subject specialist graduates and how many were not, and advise what measures, if any, are being taken to fill vacant posts given the shortage of trainee teachers nationally?

Deputy R.G. Bryans of St. Helier (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):

I hope I am not going to dampen the Deputy 's joy at this point in time. Unfortunately our computer systems do not hold that level of detail but I can advise that the numbers of posts remaining unfulfilled at the start of this term are very small. In fact there is currently only one, which has just been advertised in the past week. Primary teachers are generalists. As for secondary teachers, all requests subject to specific skills and experience, if a candidate does not meet the criteria they do not get shortlisted. Locally we have been tackling the shortage of specialist teachers for 8 years through the Jersey Graduate Teacher Training Programme, which has already successfully provided 63 home-grown teachers, most of who are now working in our secondary schools.

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Does the Minister's computer accept that there will be a shortage of specialist teachers in secondary schools in the future because of nationally the absence of applicants for teacher training, and particularly in key subjects such as English and maths?

Deputy R.G. Bryans:

Yes, I do accept it is a problem. We are aware of the problem. We work very closely with the head teachers in particular. We contact them each year to identify where there is likely to be a subject teacher shortage and recruitment for the programme and then focus on those areas. So I am aware of the problem and we are working on it, particularly through the Graduate Teaching Training Programme.

2. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of St. Saviour :

What support is the Minister giving, or does he intend to give, in the future to the volunteer group, J.I.C.A.S. (Jersey International Centre of Advanced Studies) who are working to establish a Jersey university to include a Jersey teacher training college?

Deputy R.G. Bryans:

I am not supporting the notion particularly at this moment in time of a separate university for the Island. We already have what we call Campus Jersey, and Highlands is already providing extremely great degree courses. We have 13 currently on offer. We are also working with Jersey International Business School, there is the Law College, and there is the .. we have recently passed through 17 nurses in the degree courses. So consideration of creating a university on the Island specifically for that is not on our agenda.

3. Deputy M. Tadier :

Given the fact that nowadays anybody can ask such a question under the Freedom of Information Act and expect an answer at some point in time can the Minister advise when, we as parliamentarians, might be given the information sought in this question?

Deputy R.G. Bryans:

The question came quite late in the day. It was received by us by Thursday afternoon so it was very difficult for us to assimilate the information that was requested.

Deputy M. Tadier :

And the second part of the question.

Deputy R.G. Bryans:

If further information is required then we can deliver it. Deputy M. Tadier :

It is not further information. It is the information: when can we expect to get the information that has been sought.

The Deputy Bailiff :

You have had the additional supplementary. Deputy M. Tadier :

It has not been answered.

4. Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour :

With the core reviews that occurred several years ago looking into the core subjects of Science, Mathematics and English, the review concluding that specialisms in mathematics and science needed to be bolstered within our teaching core, what is the Minister doing in order to support graduates who want to train in these areas, and whether it is not time to offer some sort of bursary scheme and post for our students so that we can grow them locally in specialisms which we know we will need.

Deputy R.G. Bryans:

I just refer the Deputy back to the fact we have this Jersey Graduate Teacher Training Programme and it has been run for 8 years rather successfully. We do provide bursaries for those students who are then going on to Masters degrees and the like. It is a consideration for our part that we pay very close attention, as the Deputy has already identified for those stem subjects, and that is predominantly provided through this Graduate Teaching Training Programme.

5. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :

I just want to refer to some data that the Minister provided to the Assembly on 14th April which referred to retention of teachers after they have been recruited and showed that actually within the first 2 ½ years a quarter of new teachers in Jersey are leaving the employment of the States of Jersey, which is broadly in line with ..

The Deputy Bailiff :

Is this a question, Deputy ?

Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :

Yes, it is.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Perhaps you could get to the question. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :

Which is broadly in line with data in the U.K. that shows half of teachers are leaving within their first 5 years. So once we have actually recruited those teachers what is the Minister doing to ensure that we retain the best teachers in our Jersey schools?

Deputy R.G. Bryans:

We are working very closely with teachers on this particular subject. In fact I think the numbers have reduced somewhat in terms of the figures that she has quoted, since we produced those figures. Obviously what we are always trying to do, the core part for me in all areas of education is teachers and providing teachers who are inspired and inspiring teachers provide high achieving pupils. So we work closely with them and have done recently on providing the new business plan and the new curriculum. So I think there is a lot more concern about retaining teachers at this point in time. I suppose the other thing to mention is the close partnership we have with the unions.

6. Deputy G.P. Southern :

What measures other than a wage freeze does the Minister have in mind in order to encourage recruits for teaching, especially in specialist subjects, and to retain those specialists?

Deputy R.G. Bryans:

I think it has probably been identified that newly qualified teachers coming to the Island are probably higher paid than those posts they would have received in the U.K. So that in itself is not particularly the incentive. The incentive is for people to come on to this Island because they think they are becoming part of a really good educational system.

4. Deputy M.R. Higgins of the Chief Minister regarding officers appointed to liaise with the Committee of Inquiry for document provision:

Will the Chief Minister explain why 2 officers, appointed to liaise with the Committee of Inquiry for document provision, are present at the majority of hearings and explain how their normal duties are being covered, at what cost, and where the budget has been allocated from, and whether he is aware of any concerns regarding the potential impact of their attendance at hearings?

Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):

The 2 officers are working alongside the States lawyers to ensure all the required documents are identified and made available to the Inquiry as soon as possible. These positions were established to help control the States legal costs for the Care Inquiry. Previous duties of these officers have been covered by recruitment and service redesign at no additional recurrent cost to the Health and Social Services Department.

1. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Yes, the role of the 2 officers, as has just been stated, is to supply the Committee of Inquiry with the documents they require, something which States departments and the Law Officers' Department appear to be failing to do, according to the chair of the Inquiry. Should these officers, rather than sitting in the hearing, be going into the departments and getting the documents the Care Inquiry requires?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

They are instructed to deliver documents requested by the Inquiry as soon as possible, and that is my instruction to them. How they break up their duties is a matter for them. If it is not working satisfactorily then of course I am pleased to speak to them.

2. Senator Z.A. Cameron:

Given that these 2 officers were previously employed as managers of that service is it appropriate that they should be employed by the taxpayer in this role? As a former employee of that service I do find their presence concerning.

Senator I.J. Gorst :

Of course I answered questions on this issue at the time of the change and the service redesign. If I recollect, certainly one of the officers - I am not sure about the other - was involved in the Historic Redress Scheme and was aware of cases and supported the States lawyers and therefore was ideally suited to be able to help with the sourcing of documents and was aware of those issues. The Senator has, prior to my vacation, met with me to say that she is concerned, and I need to explore those concerns further. I know that the officers are aware of not being present in the hearing room if they think it might cause distress or if there are other staff members perhaps who consider themselves to be whistle-blowers, so I think they do handle it carefully but they have to continue to do so.

3. Deputy M. Tadier :

It follows on. Is it not the case that these individuals themselves are being put in an invidious position given the fact that they work for the department which is, albeit perhaps in the past, having allegations made of it about the duty of care before the Committee of Inquiry? Perhaps the Chief Minister is already thinking along those lines, that perhaps in hindsight and perhaps going forward there should be a different set of individuals without any kind of perception of conflict fulfilling that administrative role.

Senator I.J. Gorst :

Sadly, in such an inquiry there could be a perception of conflict from any States employee. I hope they manage that conflict well. As I said, I have been made aware that there are concerns and I want to consider those further. But there are reasons why certainly one of those individuals is experienced in this area, and I think that that brings value to the support that the States needs to give to the Inquiry.

4. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Is the Chief Minister aware that one of these individuals is the subject of complaint from myself for a modern day cover-up of trying to suppress information getting to an elected Deputy ? Does he think in those circumstances that person should be involved with this Inquiry, which is supposed to be getting to the truth?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

The Inquiry is independent of the States and of States employees but the States have to provide information that the Inquiry requests, where they can, in a timely manner. I of course would not be aware, and I do not know to whom the Deputy has made the complaint or what form the complaint was in. If it is appropriate for me to see that complaint and consider it - and I cannot see that it would be - then I would.

[10:15]

But surely the people to whom the complaint has been made are the ones who should adjudicate upon it if it is within their remit. If they ask me to take action then I will do so accordingly.

5. Deputy S.Y. Mézec of St. Helier of the Chief Minister regarding possible strike action by some public sector unions:

Following the announcements made by some public sector unions that they believe strike action is inevitable as a result of the Government's failure to engage with them seriously, what plans, if any, does the Chief Minister have to hold face-to-face meetings with the heads of these unions to avert any potential strike action?

Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):

The Government has maintained a dialogue with public sector unions since an initial briefing on public finances in February 2015. The States Employment Board has explained why pay restraint is necessary, both through a direct meeting with unions and through regular meetings between officers and union representatives. Employee relations staff will continue to meet public sector unions as part of the collective bargaining system and therefore I think it is inappropriate for me to interrupt that process.

1. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

Does the Chief Minister accept that up until now the unions have been acting in good faith and have made it clear their support for the principles of modernisation, which the Government has been going ahead with, and does he believe that there is any legitimacy behind their resentment that they feel they are not being listened to?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

The States Employment Board is listening to the unions and considering their representations. I have said in this Assembly before, the Government believes that pay restraint is an important part of reorganising the public service and I hope that the unions will continue to engage in that process albeit we recognise that for some it is difficult.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern :

In the second round of the voluntary release programme, if it were to come .. push come to shove - and we were talking about compulsory redundancies - would the Chief Minister himself then meet with representatives of the union to announce that he is in charge of compulsory redundancies in the system?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

The Deputy knows that the way that the system works is that the States Employment Board in these instances, in conjunction with the Council of Ministers, sets policy and direction and then asks officers to undertake the necessary application of those policies. I believe that that is the correct approach and it is the approach that will continue. When the States Employment Board last met face to face with the union representatives we said then that it would probably be useful for us to have a 6-monthly update. I suspect it will not be very many more weeks before we are due to have such an update in a further face-to-face meeting anyway.

3. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Supplementary, if I may. Does that not preclude because the officers have no remit to offer anything other than the straightforward refusal for any paid pay rise, does not the absence of the Chief Minister who might have flexibility and has the power to decide one way or the other, does his presence not add something to any negotiations taking place?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

I do not believe that it does because it is the States Employment Board, as I said, in conjunction with the Council of Ministers. We did, as I said, when we last met face to face as a States Employment Board with union representatives, that we thought it would be useful to do so on a 6- monthly basis and that .. I suspect those 6 months will soon be reoccurring and we will discuss issues that the unions wish us to at that point in time. I think that is the correct process. That they should be more exceptional, but the day-to-day business policy set by politicians and implemented by officers.

4. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

Does the Chief Minister accept that should strike action take place it will cost the public purse vast sums of money and severely disrupt the Government's programme to try and reduce costs and spending? On that basis would he, as a gesture of goodwill, accept the invitation that has been requested by the heads of various unions, including the head of Unite Union, to meet face to face so that they feel that they can be treated seriously and that there is no need for this resentment which could end up costing us far more than his actions are intended to save us?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

Of course the first thing to say, on behalf of the States Employment Board, is that I hope industrial action will not take place and will not be necessary. There are ongoing conversations with the unions, ongoing correspondence. Of course, when the time is right, if it is thought necessary to meet directly with the individual union representatives then of course the States Employment Board will do so, as I have just outlined the process that we have previously gone through.

6. Deputy J.A. Hilton of St. Helier of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the number of children on the At Risk' register:

How many children aged under 5 years, 5 to 11 years and over 11 years are currently on the "At Risk" register and, of those children, how many are known to reside with parents and carers who are known to the department to have a drug and/or alcohol problem?

Senator A.K.F. Green (The Minister for Health and Social Services):

Jersey has a Child Protection Register which currently has the names of 116 children or young people on it. The age distribution of these children is as follows: 0 to 4 years, 38 children; 5 to 9 years, 37 children; 10 to 14 years, 35 children; 15 years-plus but less than 18 years, 6 young people. There are 4 categories of registration. Parental substance misuse is not currently a category, and I will come back to that in a minute. But the breakdown is as follows: physical abuse, 9 children; neglect, 51 children; emotional abuse, 46 children; sexual abuse, 10 children. The number of these children with parents or carers known to have a drug or alcohol problem is not currently collated as part of the Child Protection Register although it is recorded within the child's individual plan. I am looking at collating this information separately going forward. As the Deputy knows from her time as Assistant Minister in Home Affairs and Housing, child protection is everybody's responsibility and I would remind everybody that we all have that responsibility to report any situation where we have concerns about the child. To this end, after this Assembly sitting, I will be reminding Members and, should they need it, their constituents, the contact arrangements if they unfortunately find themselves in this position.

1. Deputy J.A. Hilton:

I thank the Minister for his answer. One of the reasons I brought this question to the Assembly was because I wanted to draw Members' attention to the quite appalling case recently reported whereby a 15-month old child was removed from a smoke-filled room while the child's mother and her partner lay comatose from the effects of drink and drugs. The mother, allegedly, had 43 previous convictions and 4 convictions for child neglect. What steps does the Minister intend to take to address what appears to be quite serious failings in the monitoring of vulnerable children and their ongoing care?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

The Assembly is aware of the difficulties that have affected the Children's Service and as the Minister for Health and Social Services I have made Children's Service a priority. A number of legacy issues are still being addressed but progress takes time. Four audits have been carried out, by ex-Ofsted inspectors, who have highlighted a number of critical areas for improvement, both in practice and service delivery. Last year senior managers had to take urgent decisive action to make changes to the organisation, structure and systems in service. There is a service sustainable improvement plan in place and I take this matter so seriously I do not have an Assistant Minister responsible for Children's Service. I oversee it with my 2 Assistant Ministers myself and I put in place a Service Improvement Board which I wanted an air of not only urgency but independence about it, and I am very grateful that the Chief Minister chairs that Improvement Board for me.

2. Deputy J.A. Hilton:

Is the Minister able to tell Members how many legacy cases are outstanding and likely to come forward? Also, is he confident .. he told us that Ofsted have reported that there are critical problems in practice and service delivery, how confident is he that the Children's Service can address these very serious issues in a timely fashion?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

I will deal with the latter first. If I was not confident then I would not be standing here telling Members that we need to make changes. We are making changes. If you look at the Draft Medium-Term Financial Plan, in 2016 we plan to invest £1.9 million in the Children's Service alone. We have improvement plans in place. From memory - but I will come back to the Deputy and Members because I want to be absolutely accurate - I think we have got something like 20 really serious legacy cases but I would like to say there is a question mark on that figure, and I would like to come back to that. But we take this seriously. We have the Improvement Board in place. We have appointed a new director. We are out to appoint a new director of Children's Services and that recruitment is proving to be very difficult and I think that is partly because of the reputation that the Service has had in the media and that is making it difficult to recruit, although will not give up and we will not appoint somebody to this post for the sake of appointment. I want the right person in the post to take this service forward. It is too important to be a mediocre service.